Updates to general handbook

[Calm]

A better citation for 2010:

https://www.timesandseasons.org/harchive/2010/11/new-handbook-online/

Quote

n this post, I want to mention just one specific item since it has been quite the hot topic in the Bloggernacle before:

21.4.15
Surgical Sterilization (Including Vasectomy)

The Church strongly discourages surgical sterilization as an elective form of birth control. Surgical sterilization should be considered only if (1) medical conditions seriously jeopardize life or health or (2) birth defects or serious trauma have rendered a person mentally incompetent and not responsible for his or her actions. Such conditions must be determined by competent medical judgment and in accordance with law. Even then, the persons responsible for this decision should consult with each other and with their bishop and should receive divine confirmation of their decision through prayer.

Note that this is the first time this counsel has been directly available to Church members. (The Church “strongly discourages surgical sterilization” in the older version, but members did not have access to it.) 

The writer thinks the ‘consult the bishop’ is new at this time, but the 2007 link shows the advice is identical. 
 

We have discussed it before:

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/66353-question-on-the-handbook-of-instructions/

 

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

What is an "MM"?

"Assault weapon": a couple of words, tossed around like a salad, dressed with half-truths and outright lies by the news media. Those guys use the term to mean anything scary that shoots bullets.

See the post I made earlier to bluebell (on previous page I think). "Assault rifle" has a particular definition according to the US Army. None of the firearms you listed above are such. Though technically, an AK-47 is an assault rifle, because it's full-automatic, but an actual AK-47 is illegal to own without a hard-to-get federal license. What people call an AK-47, that is owned by millions of people in the US, is not an AK-47.  These are all based on the Kalashnikov design, but are incapable of firing full automatic. Which makes them "not assault rifles".  I've owned a few civilianized AKs -- I've never even seen a real AK-47.

Sorry, I left out 9 mm's. Oh, and some 22's. They had them all. And BIL kind of mocked Biden when he said shot guns are okay with Biden. 

[The Nehor]

19 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Consider the hypothetical case of a faithful but somewhat naive and gullible member of the Church who has recently been troubled and agitated at, say, a family reunion by the rantings from a relative who is a prepper fanatic. Don’t you think said Church member could easily be assured and set straight when shown the relevant entry in the Church Handbook, even if the entry is not sufficient to sway the prepper himself? 

So I say that even though the caution in the handbook might not influence everyone who should be influenced thereby, I’m confident it will reach some folks, perhaps a good many. 

I am sure it will help some people. I just doubt it will help those who most need it.

[The Nehor]

On 4/1/2021 at 11:01 PM, JarMan said:

The problem is that every time the church takes a position on something controversial it ends up being divisive. Why not stay out of the fray and instead counsel people to act like grownups and make their own decisions?

Because people do not (generally speaking) act like grownups.

[Rain]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

I knew about the counsel but did it anyway without ever speaking to my bishop. My husband and I felt it was right. And three weeks later when my body fell a part after having my fourth child and the ER doctor treating me said I shouldn’t have any more kids, that feeling was confirmed. 

These days I would trust my feelings and not worry about going to the bishop.  Back then I'm not sure.  I might have gone to the bishop to be in strict obedience, but would have gone ahead with it had he disagreed. There have been few things that I have felt more strongly in answers to prayer than I felt with that.  And disagreeing with the bishop probably would have really wore on me at that time.  Probably a good thing I didn't know.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Rain

[Stargazer]

15 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Sorry, I left out 9 mm's. Oh, and some 22's. They had them all. And BIL kind of mocked Biden when he said shot guns are okay with Biden. 

Okay thanks, was really puzzled about the MM! I own several firearms myself, and was wondering if I needed to upgrade to an MM whatever that was, lol!

Did you see the Biden-mocking video I posted earlier? It might have been what your BIL was referring to. 

[Scott Lloyd]

On 4/2/2021 at 5:19 PM, Calm said:

 

It has at least been in Handbook 2 since it went online, which was in 2010.

I found an article earlier from 2013 with the quote and citation that it is from Handbook 2... 

https://utahvalley360.com/2013/08/17/vasectomies-what-you-need-to-know/

  Wiki has the date that version of Handbook 2 was put online.

It has been online over a decade as well as been published in News and other forums even before that and given that you hang out here as well as reported News, the probability  that you would become aware of it is much higher than the typical member, I am guessing.  

https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=52924468&itype=cmsid

https://www.ldsliving.com/Ask-a-Latter-day-Saint-Therapist-Is-Birth-Control-Against-the-Commandments/s/89844

https://askgramps.org/does-the-mormon-church-have-a-position-on-sterilization-to/

I think your lack of awareness for however many years when the information was just as available as it is now is a good example of why members still have an excuse not to be aware of it in the future.  We shouldn't assume members are aware of it.

I think you are still failing to understand me, but I lack the inclination to pursue it further.