Update on Story Re: Decertification of BYU Police

[The Nehor]

On 12/4/2020 at 11:22 AM, Bob Crockett said:

Stupid decisions by police departments are not justification for getting rid of them.

I think we should reconsider that stance.

[mgy401]

On 12/3/2020 at 8:23 PM, 2BizE said:

I’m in favor of decertification of BYUPD. I think it comes down to trust.  The public cannot trust BYUPD to do the right thing.  
1) Maddie Barney reported being raped.  BYU searches outside agency databases to find the rape report and provide it to BYU honor code office.  Ms. Barney was terminated as a student at BYU for being raped.

 

A point of order:

Barney was not terminated from BYU “for being raped.”

She was terminated because the Honor Code Office had received information about her prior sexual escapades (apparently, tipped off by at least one of her disgusted roommates).  The rape was tangentially pertinent, in HCO’s eyes, because the police report (and later, Barney’s trial testimony) confirmed that immediately before being raped she had engaged in voluntary oral sex with her assailant (well, alleged assailant.  He was acquitted at trial).

HCO said “look, notwithstanding what happened that day, we need to talk to you about all this other stuff”, Barney said “not until the trial’s over”, HCO gave her an extension and then declined to give another.  Barney then got in a snit because BYU, having previously given her (and all its other students) a $30K education in exchange for $4K in tuition plus an agreement to adopt a certain standard of conduct, decided that Barney was in violation of her agreement and cut her off from the tithe payer-subsidized gravy train.

As far as the reason why BYU wants to keep its certified police department, I can sum that one up in two words:  parking tickets.

Edited December 7, 2020 by mgy401

[bsjkki]

I

1 hour ago, mgy401 said:

A point of order:

Barney was not terminated from BYU “for being raped.”

She was terminated because the Honor Code Office had received information about her prior sexual escapades (apparently, tipped off by at least one of her disgusted roommates).  The rape was tangentially pertinent, in HCO’s eyes, because the police report (and later, Barney’s trial testimony) confirmed that immediately before being raped she had engaged in voluntary oral sex with her assailant (well, alleged assailant.  He was acquitted at trial).

HCO said “look, notwithstanding what happened that day, we need to talk to you about all this other stuff”, Barney said “not until the trial’s over”, HCO gave her an extension and then declined to give another.  Barney then got in a snit because BYU, having previously given her (and all its other students) a $30K education in exchange for $4K in tuition plus an agreement to adopt a certain standard of conduct, decided that Barney was in violation of her agreement and cut her off from the tithe payer-subsidized gravy train.

As far as the reason why BYU wants to keep its certified police department, I can sum that one up in two words:  parking tickets.

So you think it is fine the Honor Code office asked BYUPD to break the law to get private information on a student undergoing a rape investigation? You think investigating students unlawfully is okay? 
 

I think BYU should expell the honor code office for breaking the honor code. 😏

[Calm]

2 hours ago, bsjkki said:

think BYU should expell the honor code office for breaking the honor code. 😏

Perfect

[Kenngo1969]

12 hours ago, mgy401 said:

... As far as the reason why BYU wants to keep its certified police department, I can sum that one up in two words:  parking tickets.

Okay, but I've been a parking enforcement officer in two different jurisdictions.  I've never been a police officer.  One does not need to be a fully-trained, fully-certified, fully-equipped, armed police officer who possesses arrest powers, along with all other powers inherent to law enforcement, to issue parking tickets.

P.S.: Besides, the very r'aison d'etre of parking enforcement is to generate revenue (and, once, I had a supervisor tell me exactly that, though he didn't use those words: If I had said, "So, what you're telling me is that revenue is the very r'aison d'etre of parking enforcement?" he would have looked at me with a quizzical expression and said, "Uhhh ... what?" ), and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints isn't getting a great return on its investment (and that's putting it very mildly) if it's bankrolling a fully-fledged, fully-empowered police department solely in an effort to generate revenue by having that department issue parking tickets. )

Edited December 7, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[mgy401]

16 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I

So you think it is fine the Honor Code office asked BYUPD to break the law to get private information on a student undergoing a rape investigation? You think investigating students unlawfully is okay? 
 

I think BYU should expell the honor code office for breaking the honor code. 😏

No, and it’s kind of dishonest of you to put words in my mouth.  Procedure is important, and BYU’s failure to observe it is a problem.

That said, a sense of perspective is appropriate.  Barney was not terminated because she was raped; she was terminated because she was caught trying to defraud BYU.  And BYU could have gotten the same info by suing Barney for fraud and then subpoenaing the police report as part of the discovery process.

And it’s not like BYUPD was passing around nekked pics of murdered coeds, the way the U of U PD was just caught doing (with nary a peep from DPS).

[bsjkki]

2 hours ago, mgy401 said:

No, and it’s kind of dishonest of you to put words in my mouth.  Procedure is important, and BYU’s failure to observe it is a problem.

That said, a sense of perspective is appropriate.  Barney was not terminated because she was raped; she was terminated because she was caught trying to defraud BYU.  And BYU could have gotten the same info by suing Barney for fraud and then subpoenaing the police report as part of the discovery process.

And it’s not like BYUPD was passing around nekked pics of murdered coeds, the way the U of U PD was just caught doing (with nary a peep from DPS).

Are you implying if a student doesn’t obey the honor code they are committing ‘fraud?’ 
 

I think the unlawful acts of BYU are a much bigger problem than anything Barney has done. They also should have followed the advice of the prosecutor and withheld any further investigation or discipline until after the trial. 

This case brought to light a rather despicable consequence to BYU’s honor code and I am relieved they made changes. 

Subsidized education is not worth the risk of very flawed young adults making very human choices and being kicked out of school which then messes up not only their spiritual well being but also their secular. I think the Honor Code morphed into an unforgiving and unsympathetic tool to bludgeon students with. It’s used as a hammer when a scalpel would be much more effective. 
 

 

 

[mgy401]

3 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Are you implying if a student doesn’t obey the honor code they are committing ‘fraud?’ 
 

You’re right.  It’s not technically fraud.  It’s theft of services.  

[quote]They also should have followed the advice of the prosecutor and withheld any further investigation or discipline until after the trial. [/quote]

Investigation immediately surrounding that particular incident, sure.  But why should they have suspended investigation of other events, or discipline/counseling generally?  Where does a government official get the right to force a private party to continue to confer thousands of dollars’ worth of benefits to another party who is in breach of the contract?  If your employee was embezzling $2k from your business a month, but the county attorney asked you not to fire the employer because the county attorney needs the employee to testify at a trial that will happen in the next year or two—would you do it?

bejkki, I’m new here and don’t know you; so forgive me for asking; but—do you believe premarital sex is wrong; and do you believe the LDS Church is right to expect its members to abstain from it?  Is the moral outrage here really that BYU was able to stop thefts-in-process through improperly expedited access to discoverable public records?  (Which isn’t even how they got Barney’s police report anyways; they got that from a friend of her accused assailant who turned them in on his own initiative after getting them from the accused himself.  And any member of the public with a paid XChange subscription—including a journalist or a layperson—could have pulled her assailant’s charging documents and gotten the gist of the police report, including the nature of Barney’s HCO violation.)

So—yeah—is that actually the problem?  Or are we *really* just outraged that BYU takes proactive steps to ensure that campus life isn’t the unmitigated orgy that lots of folks think college ought to be?

[quote]Subsidized education is not worth the risk of very flawed young adults making very human choices and being kicked out of school which then messes up not only their spiritual well being but also their secular. [/quote]
 

Sure, lots of folks think so; and BYU probably isn’t a good fit for them.

On the other hand:  thousands of BYU students per year—including Barney, at one point—think otherwise; and they commit to living the BYU honor code.

And it’s not like one is going to accidentally trip one day and stumble into an LOC violation.  You have to be trying—especially if you’re living in BYU-approved housing.  And even then, HCO violations do not automatically lead to expulsion.   It’s a function of the students willingness to change bad behaviors and adapt better standards going forward. Barney refused even to play ball.

By the way, Barney transferred to the U of U in fairly short order.  I wouldn’t presume to say how she is spiritually or emotionally; but academically—she’s fine. She just had to pay market rates for the rest of her schooling.

Edited December 8, 2020 by mgy401

[bsjkki]

2 hours ago, mgy401 said:

You’re right.  It’s not technically fraud.  It’s theft of services.  

[quote]They also should have followed the advice of the prosecutor and withheld any further investigation or discipline until after the trial. [/quote]

Investigation immediately surrounding that particular incident, sure.  But why should they have suspended investigation of other events, or discipline?  Where does a government official get the right to force a private party to continue to confer thousands of dollars’ worth of benefits to another party who is in breach of the contract?

bejkki, I’m new here and don’t know you; so forgive me for asking; but—do you believe premarital sex is wrong; and do you believe the LDS Church is right to expect its members to abstain from it?

[quote]Subsidized education is not worth the risk of very flawed young adults making very human choices and being kicked out of school which then messes up not only their spiritual well being but also their secular. [/quote]
 

Sure, lots of folks think so; and BYU probably isn’t a good fit for them.

On the other hand:  thousands of BYU students per year—including Barney, at one point—think otherwise; and they commit to living the BYU honor code.

And it’s not like one is going to accidentally trip one day and stumble into an LOC violation.  You have to be trying—especially if you’re living in BYU-approved housing.  And even then, HCO violations do not automatically lead to expulsion.   It’s a function of the students willingness to change bad behaviors and adapt better standards going forward. Barney refused even to play ball.

By the way, Barney transferred to the U of U in fairly short order.  I wouldn’t presume to say how she is spiritually or emotionally; but academically—she’s fine. She just had to pay market rates for the rest of her schooling.

I do believe premarital sex is a sin. BYU can kick out all the students they catch having sex. That is their right. I mean, 18-23 year olds always make perfect decisions. BYU should not tolerate any ‘sin’ on their campus. Those students are so deceitful and weak and lack faith. We really wouldn’t want them anywhere near a church campus.

BYU should also charge them with fraud. How dare they not live up to their commitments! That is theft! 

I think they should kick out everyone with speeding tickets too! Breaking the law. The horror! And it’s against the Honor Code too! Lets also kick out roommates that don’t tattle. They’re encouraging sinners! It’s just as bad!!!!

We can threaten them in Bishop interviews too...because that helps build spiritually sound relationships. 

Its  better to create this environment on campus. I mean, if someone was doing something bad and something even worse happens to them, it’s their fault. We want to make sure everyone stays silent and doesn’t get help because fear is a great motivator for good.

We can make BYU perfect with perfectly perfect people! Yay!

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by bsjkki

[mgy401]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

I do believe premarital sex is a sin. BYU can kick out all the students they catch having sex out. That is their right. I mean, 18-23 year olds always make perfect decisions. BYU should not tolerate any ‘sin’ on their campus. Those students are so deceitful and weak and lack faith. We really wouldn’t want them anywhere near a church campus.

BYU should also charge them with fraud. How dare they not live up to their commitments! That is theft! 

I think they should kick out everyone with speeding tickets out too! Breaking the law. The horror! And it’s against the Honor Code too! Let’s also kick out roommates that don’t tattle. They’re encouraging sinners! It’s just as bad!!!!

We can threaten them in Bishop interviews too...because that helps build spiritually sound relationships. 

Its  better to create this environment on campus. I mean, if someone was doing something bad and something even worse happens to them, it’s their fault. We want to make sure everyone stays silent and doesn’t get help because fear is a great motivator for good.

We can make BYU perfect with perfectly perfect people! Yay!

 

 

Or . . . we could just commit to keeping our pants on, as we already promised to do.   In spite of the attempts of some to gaslight us into thinking that chastity is both inhuman and inhumane— the BYU honor code isn’t really about some unattainable standard of perfection.  It’s about trying . . . versus not.

It’s interesting to me that one thing you *haven't* suggested, is ending the Church subsidy of BYU tuition and letting all the students pay market rates.  Then the students who want a “party school” experience wouldn’t feel constrained to attend BYU for financial reasons; and the BYU student body would self-select into a group of people who actually subscribe to the school’s (and Church’s) standard of conduct.

If the Church leadership still wants to financially incentivize education for its youth, it can find some other way to subsidize/reimburse/pay off the student loans of faithful LDS students and graduates over time.  Perhaps it could be done through ward bishops, like financial aid/fast offering funds are administered now; or it could go through the PEF.  That could be extended to *any* “worthy” person, regardless of whether the person attended a CES school.

Edited December 8, 2020 by mgy401

[bsjkki]

28 minutes ago, mgy401 said:

Or . . . we could just commit to keeping our pants on, as we already promised to do.  
 

It’s not about perfect versus human.  It’s about trying . . . versus not.

It’s interesting to me that one thing you *haven't* suggested, is ending the Church subsidy of BYU tuition and letting all the students pay market rates; and then the students who want a “party school” experience won’t feel constrained to attend BYU for financial reasons.  

If the Church leadership still wants to financially incentivize education for its youth, it can find some other way to subsidize/reimburse/pay off the student loans of faithful LDS students and graduates over time.  Perhaps it could be done through ward bishops, like financial aid/fast offering funds are administered now; or it could go through the PEF.  That could be extended to *any* “worthy” person, regardless of whether the person attended a CES school.

Or we could just end being in the education business. You realize rapists used the Honor Code to create fear in their victims. BYU changed their rules because the atmosphere created was toxic for sexual assault victims. 

I’m sorry you have such black and white thinking. The administration in the Barney case behaved horrendously. The Honor Code office initiated/requested BYUPD break the law. I am grateful she spoke up. The cascade of victims following the publicity forced change. Did you read their stories?
 

Why do you give BYU a pass? You seem to have no ‘mercy’ for students but a lot of mercy for BYU.

[smac97]

9 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Or we could just end being in the education business. You realize rapists used the Honor Code to create fear in their victims. BYU changed their rules because the atmosphere created was toxic for sexual assault victims. 

I’m sorry you have such black and white thinking. The administration in the Barney case behaved horrendously. The Honor Code office initiated/requested BYUPD break the law. I am grateful she spoke up. The cascade of victims following the publicity forced change. Did you read their stories?

Why do you give BYU a pass? You seem to have no ‘mercy’ for students but a lot of mercy for BYU.

I don't give BYU a pass, but neither do I condemn it in perpetuity.  An investigation came about.  BYU made substantial remedial changes to how it handles such matters in 2016.  Lt. Rhoades is no longer on the force.  The Utah Attorney General's Office is satisfied with BYU's remedial efforts.  

And yet some critics and cranks will never forgive BYU.  Ever.  It will forever be tainted.  Neither it nor the Church can ever redeem themselves from errors and mistakes, which matters some self-appointed folks will hold over out collective heads until the end of days.

The irony is . . . strong.

Thanks,

-Smac

[bsjkki]

59 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I don't give BYU a pass, but neither do I condemn it in perpetuity.  An investigation came about.  BYU made substantial remedial changes to how it handles such matters in 2016.  Lt. Rhoades is no longer on the force.  The Utah Attorney General's Office is satisfied with BYU's remedial efforts.  

And yet some critics and cranks will never forgive BYU.  Ever.  It will forever be tainted.  Neither it nor the Church can ever redeem themselves from errors and mistakes, which matters some self-appointed folks will hold over out collective heads until the end of days.

The irony is . . . strong.

Thanks,

-Smac

I am happy BYU has made changes but I am for police decertification. Actions/consequences. They’ve never really been open about the extent of this issue nor been open with how often this happened. Was it only one Honor Code office employee requesting this information or more?

I don’t feel that position is out of whack with your statement.

I am happy BYU recognized and listened to the sexual assault survivors and made changes. They can have a security force and let Provo PD handle actual crimes and investigations. I think this is overall better for all. An actual win-win. 

Unless it is about parking tickets but I think private security on private property can issue parking tickets.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by bsjkki

[smac97]

2 hours ago, bsjkki said:

I am happy BYU has made changes but I am for police decertification.

Okay.  I am opposed to decertification on the basis cited by the DPS, but I am somewhat open to the idea of disbanding BYU-PD on other grounds (namely, that I am uneasy with BYU, a private religious educational institution, having law enforcement authority).

Quote

Actions/consequences.

What "actions" do you have in mind here?  Are you aware of the basis for DPS seeking decertifciation?

Quote

They’ve never really been open about the extent of this issue nor been open with how often this happened. Was it only one Honor Code office employee requesting this information or more?

Such issues are seldom hashed out in the public sphere.  The Utah Attorney General's Office is apparently on board with BYU's 2016 remedial efforts.

Quote

I don’t feel that position is out of whack with your statement.

I think it is.  Some seem to have a "pound of flesh" attitude here.  Decertification as a collective punishment.  As payback.  Against BYU.  Against the Church.

If BYU had not enacted remedial changes sufficient to satisfy the Utah AG, and if there were ongoing systemic problems with BYU, I think you might have a point.  But it did, and there aren't (that we know of, anyway), so I don't think you do.

Quote

I am happy BYU recognized and listened to the sexual assault survivors and made changes.

And yet you still want BYU punished anyway.  "Actions/consequences" and all that (even though the DPS is not seeking decerticiation on such grounds).

Quote

They can have a security force and let Provo PD handle actual crimes and investigations. I think this is overall better for all. An actual win-win. 

Perhaps.  Again, I am open to dissolving BYU-PD on alternative grounds, but not on the punitive basis you have in mind.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited December 8, 2020 by smac97

[mgy401]

20 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Or we could just end being in the education business. You realize rapists used the Honor Code to create fear in their victims. BYU changed their rules because the atmosphere created was toxic for sexual assault victims. 

Wait—so it’s inappropriate to cause chaos in the life of one BYU student by telling her she can’t re-enroll six months from now unless she meets with the HCO; but it’s OK to completely upend the lives of thirty thousand BYU students by shutting down the school completely?

Rapists use a lot of institutions, technologies, tangible objects, and even body parts as tools to oppress their victims.  We don’t immediately banish any of those things from our society just because they *can* be used for ill.  The analogy of Chesterton’s fence is appropriate—we can consider whether the fence should be moved once we understand why it exists in the first place.  (What are the theological and social benefits of an LOC-observant population?  How many nonconsensual sexual encounters in Provo have been prevented by BYU students who refused to imbibe alcohol?  How many students have been counseled by HCO in ways that didn’t result in suspension/expulsion?)  But as long as promoters of change talk about the BYU honor code in more or less the same terms as those used by any disappointed UVU frat boy whose Mormon date wouldn’t let him get to second base—those promoters are going to find that a lot of folks don’t take them terribly seriously. 

[quote]I’m sorry you have such black and white thinking. The administration in the Barney case behaved horrendously. The Honor Code office initiated/requested BYUPD break the law. I am grateful she spoke up. The cascade of victims following the publicity forced change. Did you read their stories?[/quote]

Yes, I’ve read many of those accounts.  I have issues of my own with the HCO’s methods.  But my immediate point here is refuting a couple of very specific misstatements that you have made, and continue to make, regarding the Barney case as you advance your apparent overall agenda of closing BYU.

[quote]Why do you give BYU a pass? You seem to have no ‘mercy’ for students but a lot of mercy for BYU.[/quote]

I haven’t given them a pass, any more than you have advocated converting the school into a giant bordello.

Edited December 9, 2020 by mgy401

[bsjkki]

7 minutes ago, mgy401 said:

Wait—so it’s inappropriate to cause chaos in the life of one BYU student by telling her she can’t re-enroll six months from now unless she meets with the HCO; but it’s OK to completely upend the lives of thirty thousand BYU students by shutting down the school completely?

Rapists use a lot of institutions, technologies, tangible objects, and even body parts as tools to oppress their victims.  We don’t immediately banish any of those things from our society just because they *can* be used for ill.  The analogy of Chesterton’s fence is appropriate—we can consider whether the fence should be moved once we understand why it exists in the first place.  (What are the theological and social benefits of an LOC-observant population?  How many nonconsensual sexual encounters in Provo have been prevented by BYU students who refused to imbibe alcohol?  How many students have been counseled by HCO in ways that didn’t result in suspension/expulsion?)  But as long as promoters of change talk about the BYU honor code in more or less the same terms as those used by any disappointed UVU frat boy whose Mormon date wouldn’t let him get to second base—those promoters are going to find that a lot of folks don’t take them terribly seriously. 

[quote]I’m sorry you have such black and white thinking. The administration in the Barney case behaved horrendously. The Honor Code office initiated/requested BYUPD break the law. I am grateful she spoke up. The cascade of victims following the publicity forced change. Did you read their stories?[/quote]

Yes, I’ve read many of those accounts.  I have issues of my own with the HCO’s methods.  But my immediate point here is refuting a couple of very specific misstatements that you have made, and continue to make, regarding the Barney case as you advance your apparent overall agenda of closing BYU.

[quote]Why do you give BYU a pass? You seem to have no ‘mercy’ for students but a lot of mercy for BYU.[/quote]

I haven’t given them a pass, any more than you have advocated converting the school into a giant bordello.

Could you point out my misstatements about the Barney case?

[Okrahomer]

On 12/8/2020 at 10:47 AM, smac97 said:

Okay.  I am opposed to decertification on the basis cited by the DPS,...

UPDATE

The Tribune is reporting tonight that the administrative law judge has rejected the State’s request to decertify the BYU police — BYU will keep its police department.

”Brigham Young University will keep its police department after an administrative law judge took the surprising step of tossing the case where state officials had sought to strip the private campus of its policing powers.”

[JustAnAustralian]

Keep in mind though, that as of 2019 legislation, BYUPD (by virtue of its certification) is a law enforcement agency and subject to records laws, so won't be able to block requests anymore.

Before any of that though, we'll need to if the state appeals the decision.

[Kenngo1969]

I'd like to read the ALJ's decision, but my searches have been unsuccessful so far.  Any ideas?

[Kenngo1969]

57 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Keep in mind though, that as of 2019 legislation, BYUPD (by virtue of its certification) is a law enforcement agency and subject to records laws, so won't be able to block requests anymore.

Before any of that though, we'll need to if the state appeals the decision.

I believe BYU already has agreed to abide by the requirements of the Government Records Access Management Act (GRAMA), and so, would not seek "to block requests."

[Scott Lloyd]

On 12/8/2020 at 7:04 PM, mgy401 said:

Wait—so it’s inappropriate to cause chaos in the life of one BYU student by telling her she can’t re-enroll six months from now unless she meets with the HCO; but it’s OK to completely upend the lives of thirty thousand BYU students by shutting down the school completely?

Rapists use a lot of institutions, technologies, tangible objects, and even body parts as tools to oppress their victims.  We don’t immediately banish any of those things from our society just because they *can* be used for ill.  The analogy of Chesterton’s fence is appropriate—we can consider whether the fence should be moved once we understand why it exists in the first place.  (What are the theological and social benefits of an LOC-observant population?  How many nonconsensual sexual encounters in Provo have been prevented by BYU students who refused to imbibe alcohol?  How many students have been counseled by HCO in ways that didn’t result in suspension/expulsion?)  But as long as promoters of change talk about the BYU honor code in more or less the same terms as those used by any disappointed UVU frat boy whose Mormon date wouldn’t let him get to second base—those promoters are going to find that a lot of folks don’t take them terribly seriously. 

[quote]I’m sorry you have such black and white thinking. The administration in the Barney case behaved horrendously. The Honor Code office initiated/requested BYUPD break the law. I am grateful she spoke up. The cascade of victims following the publicity forced change. Did you read their stories?[/quote]

Yes, I’ve read many of those accounts.  I have issues of my own with the HCO’s methods.  But my immediate point here is refuting a couple of very specific misstatements that you have made, and continue to make, regarding the Barney case as you advance your apparent overall agenda of closing BYU.

[quote]Why do you give BYU a pass? You seem to have no ‘mercy’ for students but a lot of mercy for BYU.[/quote]

I haven’t given them a pass, any more than you have advocated converting the school into a giant bordello.

What is an LOC-observant population?

 

[JustAnAustralian]

16 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

What is an LOC-observant population?

I'm assuming LOC is Law of Chastity.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, JustAnAustralian said:

I'm assuming LOC is Law of Chastity.

Ah, yes. That must be it. 

[smac97]

10 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'd like to read the ALJ's decision, but my searches have been unsuccessful so far.  Any ideas?

KSL has some excerpts:

Quote

Judge Richard Catten acknowledged the different agencies' expectations of how the situation was to be handled.

"The Parties took a very different approach to the statutes and rules that are at play in this case. POST clearly expected BYUPD to act in a similar fashion to most other police agencies in the state — conduct an administrative internal affairs investigation (into) the officer's alleged actions, then turn over the results to POST for further investigation under §53-6-211 UCA.4," wrote Catten. "If BYUPD had followed that course, then the officer surrendering his certification would have been the end of the process and this decertification case would never have happened."

He continued, "Instead, BYUPD chose a different course of action. It brought in multiple attorneys and obtained a secrecy order which, when combined with attorney-client privilege, resulted in much of the case being shielded from POST."

Ultimately, Catten ruled in favor of the university, stating that BYUPD met the minimum requirements of Utah Code §53-6-211 which requires an "investigation" and responded to the investigative subpoena by state officials.

And here:

Quote

In a letter sent to the university, DPS Commissioner Jess L. Anderson informed BYU their police force would be decertified on Sept. 1, 2019, due to the lack of an internal investigation into the incident.

However, Catten said “that expectation is not supported” in current state law language, “which just requires an ‘investigation.'”

“Because BYUPD caused an investigation that meets the requirements of Utah Code § 53-6-211(6) and responded to the investigative subpoena, BYUPD has not violated its certification criteria and its certification is not subject to revocation by the commissioner on that ground.”
...
In his ruling, Catten sided with the DPS, saying, “A private college or university law enforcement agency is required to comply with the investigation and referral obligations set forth in Utah” state law.

But he added BYU “performed its duties” under current law and was “in compliance with the certification requirements” after requesting an investigation by the State Bureau of Investigations.
...
Catten also ruled both parties were “unfairly affected” by inadequacies in current state laws.

“The biggest single cause of the conflict between BYUPD and UDPS is the startling lack of guidance from the statutes and rules that govern the certification of BYUPD, the process by which any law enforcement agency is required to refer allegations to POST, and the lack of a clear process for objections to an administrative investigative subpoena or the non-criminal enforcement of such a subpoena,” Catten said. “The statutes and rules that are in place which govern BYUPD’s certification are piecemeal and it requires a substantial amount of statutory interpretation to determine how they work together.”

KJZZ has links to a tweet that has screen caps of some pages of the order: https://kjzz.com/news/judge-dismisses-case-decertify-byu-police-department-utah

Fox13 notes: 

Quote

The decision was a surprise, as Judge Catten had signaled he was favoring decertifying BYU's police force.

The judge essentially declared that while DPS wanted The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' private university to act like other police forces — the law at the time didn't necessarily require them to. At the center of the case are accusations that a BYU PD lieutenant improperly accessed law enforcement databases and reported students to the private university's Honor Code Office. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which owns BYU, requires students to adhere to a set of standards including no premarital sex, no drinking or drug use. Students can be disciplined for violating the Honor Code.

A few thoughts:

1. I doubt DPS will appeal the decision.  The situation that led to problems has been remedied.  BYU has implemented remedial measures, the law has been clarified (where it had previously been less-than-clear - "the law at the time didn't necessarily require {BYUPD to act like other police forces}...") regarding obligations to comply with records requests, and the officer at the center of the mess retired.

2. If I am reading the above excerpts correctly, the problem seems to have been primarily with the wording of the statute(s) governing compliance by BYUPD.  As Judge Catten put it: 

Quote

“The biggest single cause of the conflict between BYUPD and UDPS is the startling lack of guidance from the statutes and rules that govern the certification of BYUPD, the process by which any law enforcement agency is required to refer allegations to POST, and the lack of a clear process for objections to an administrative investigative subpoena or the non-criminal enforcement of such a subpoena,” Catten said. “The statutes and rules that are in place which govern BYUPD’s certification are piecemeal and it requires a substantial amount of statutory interpretation to determine how they work together.”

I can really relate to this.  I have spent huge amounts of time in the last 6-7 years litigating issues pertaining to the statute of limitations for foreclosures in Utah.  This is a very important point of law for both lenders and borrowers.  I have been involved in several dozen lawsuits about it, most of which arise because there is - as here - a "startling lack of guidance from the statutes and rules," and because those statutes/rules "are piecemeal" and require "a substantial amount of statutory interpretation."

In other words, reasonable minds - including those of highly-trained lawyers and judges - can and do disagree about how these statutes should be interpreted and applied, how they work together, etc.  I think the same can and should be said for the statutes/rules governing BYUPD (in the past, anyway).

3. The legislature has apparently fixed the situation re: the statutes governing BYUPD, and I am very glad of that.

4. I am grateful for the rule of law.  Our legal system is far from perfect, but this resolution was peaceful, reasonable and fair.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited January 6, 2021 by smac97

[bsjkki]

Not a surprising result. BYU did fix their issues and legislation was clarified. They just never had to own up to their past actions. I find that disappointing. One officer was the scapegoat. It worked.