smac97 Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 Here: Quote Utah County Commissioner Nathan Ivie — who came out as Utah’s first openly gay elected Republican last year — was one of several local government incumbents voters booted from office in this week’s election. There seems to have been a fair amount of anti-incumbent sentiment in this election. Quote Ivie lost with 39.5% of the vote to former Marine Lt. Col. Tom Sakievich, who got over 60% of the vote. A retired Marine lieutenant colonel was always going to be a formidable opponent. Quote Ivie said his sexuality was “absolutely” one of the reasons why he lost support in one of Utah’s most conservative counties. He said some of his critics “ran a very false narrative about me, my family, and particularly my stance on abortion.” “It’s hard to combat those things,” he said. I'm not sure what he's referencing here. If his position on abortion was misrepresented, I think that's unfortunate and wrong. It's also not particularly relevant. Does the Utah County Commissioner have a substantial influence in abortion policy? Quote Though Sakievich said Ivie being openly gay was “not an issue” in his race against him and was “never a part of the debate” in his campaign, Ivie said he experienced hate. “Do you know what it’s like to almost daily get messages or calls telling you you’re a perversion, sinful, bringing the destruction of our society, that it’s too bad you didn’t succeed on your suicide attempt as it would have been better than to live authentic?” Ivie posted on Twitter on Thursday. “I do. ...” Pretty awful stuff. Inexcusable. Quote Before he announced he was gay last year, sharing struggles including a suicide attempt at age 22, Ivie won the Republican nomination for the Utah County Commission seat with nearly 59% of the vote in 2016. That general election, he won the seat with 81%. Other issues likely contributed to his downfall, Ivie said, including his support last year for the county’s first property tax hike in 23 years. Ivie and County Commissioner Tanner Ainge supported the 67.4% increase to put the county on a more sustainable financial path and address what Ainge called years of “irresponsible management” by previous county leaders who let the tax rate decrease year after year and chip into the county’s purchasing power. Ivie also supported an effort to put the question of whether Utah County should ask voters to weigh in on a change of its form of government, which Sakievich said is something “a lot of people didn’t want.” So widespread anti-incumbent sentiment + a formidable primary opponent (former military officer) + voting for a tax hike + some anti-gay animus. That Ivie received any sort of abusive or derogatory messages at all is very wrong. Quote Ivie, however, stands by his record as one that prioritized the county’s future. “I can leave office with a clean conscience, knowing what I did was right,” Ivie said. Ainge on Thursday backed Ivie and denounced any hate directed at him. “On the toughest decisions, (Ivie) chose what was best for Utah County — not his own re-election,” Ainge tweeted. “The dishonesty of those opposing him deserves to be called out and the hate mail is appalling.” Sakievich, Ivie said, is in for a “rude awakening,” accusing him of running “a campaign based on false information.” “He claims he can increase services, reduce taxes and pay for it all by (tourism dollars) that you can’t legally use,” Ivie said... I haven't followed this much. I have long held the sentiment that politicians very much tend to think of spending as a one-way street. That is, more. Quote Sakievich, who brushed off that criticism, said he intends to explore innovative ways to retool the county’s budget, including going to the Legislature to make changes to ways the county can spend tourism dollars. Sakievich also pledged to aim to “roll back” at least a portion, if not all, of the tax hike in January. We'll see, I suppose. Quote Ivie said he still plans to be involved in the community, particularly to combat youth LGBTQ suicide rates. “I’ve got things I want to help with,” Ivie said. “I was taught to serve. And, in the end, God’s in control, and I’ll serve where I can.” Sage words. Thanks, -Smac
katherine the great Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 Hmm. At first glance it appears he lost because he supported a 67% property tax increase. Maybe he should have looked for less extreme measures instead of trying to fix the problem in one giant, painful blow. 2
JamesBYoung Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 The major reason for defeat was the property tax increase. And I am sure that coming out gay lost him some votes while not gaining a single one.
strappinglad Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 So, being gay doesn't hurt when you win, but does when you lose. All righty then. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) So, I wasn't supposed to vote for him because he's gay? Dang! I wish somebody had bothered to tell me that before I cast my ballot! What's the world coming to when, despite the apparent best efforts of someone(s) to poison the well against a candidate in an effort to get the electorate to not vote for him because he's [Gasp! ] [Hushed whisper] ... gay ... people vote for him anyway?! (I wasn't aware of his sexual orientation before I voted for him, and I'm not sure it would have made a difference if I had been. In fact, I think I know my own mind pretty well: I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have made a difference!) After the fact? Now, he tells me it should have? Well, gawrsh, I'm just not sure what to make of that! It won't be long, now, before the fate of Sodom and Gomorrah befalls sleepy Utah County!!! Run for your lives!!! (With due respect, Mr. Ivie's post mortem on his unsuccessful campaign sounds to me like nothing more so many sour grapes.) Edited July 8, 2020 by Kenngo1969
Kenngo1969 Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, JamesBYoung said: The major reason for defeat was the property tax increase. And I am sure that coming out gay lost him some votes while not gaining a single one. So, you polled the voters of Utah County, did you? Cool! Thanks for all of your hard work! Mind posting the results?
Kenngo1969 Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, katherine the great said: Hmm. At first glance it appears he lost because he supported a 67% property tax increase. Maybe he should have looked for less extreme measures instead of trying to fix the problem in one giant, painful blow. No kidding! (For the record, I wasn't aware that he had voted for such a gargantuan increase.) One wonders, even if an elected official thinks that a steep increase is the best way to bridge the gap between collections and expenditures, why the increase can't be phased in. (Perhaps because some believe that would give elected officials, or future elected officials, too much time to change their minds? )
Calm Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 3 hours ago, smac97 said: It's also not particularly relevant. Does the Utah County Commissioner have a substantial influence in abortion policy? Perhaps not, but it would color how people felt about him, if they felt they could trust his overall judgment if they had strong feelings about abortion as many do.
mgy401 Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 I live in Utah County and am pretty conservative on social/LGBTQ issues. I have a hard time sympathizing with any man, gay or straight, who divorced his wife of 13 years merely because he has decided he’s not sexually attracted to her. But, I voted for Ivie anyways—the tax increase was a 67% increase in *the county’s share* of your property tax, but most property tax goes to the state for education; so it was “only” like a 5% increase in my total property tax. I work with enough county departments and have seen how cash-strapped they are, that I reluctantly agree that the tax hike needed to happen. In debating the situation with numerous friends and family members here, no one mentioned Ivie’s sexual orientation—no one. The election was basically a referendum on the tax increase. 1
Calm Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, mgy401 said: who divorced his wife of 13 years merely because he has decided he’s not sexually attracted to her. Why are you assuming this? Divorces are often complicated with multiple reasons for the separation and in cases where gay men have admitted their sexual feelings to their spouse, it is at times the spouse who wants the divorce. Edited July 8, 2020 by Calm 2
mgy401 Posted July 8, 2020 Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Calm said: Why are you assuming this? Divorces are often complicated with multiple reasons for the separation and in cases where gay men have admitted their sexual feelings to their spouse, it is at times the spouse who wants the divorce. Because I think (admittedly speaking in generalities) it’s *far* more likely that a man would divorce someone he found sexually unfulfilling, than that a woman would divorce a man who was keeping his covenants and treating her like gold but had admitted that he just had certain *thoughts* or *feelings* that he never has and never will act upon. And because if Ivie had wanted to say “I was willing to stick it out, but my wife wanted to leave me because she’s a homophobe”, he could have done that—but he didn’t. And because I think we all know what modern social media would do to a woman who publicly said she was *not* OK with her gay husband abandoning his covenants to her. Edited July 8, 2020 by mgy401
california boy Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, mgy401 said: who divorced his wife of 13 years merely because he has decided he’s not sexually attracted to her. This might surprise you, but there are actually some religions that promise in the name of God that if they just marry, they will become straight. It is a false promise and it means that the person enters the marriage under false beliefs from a church that has betrayed his trust in those leaders. 56 minutes ago, mgy401 said: Because I think (admittedly speaking in generalities) it’s *far* more likely that a man would divorce someone he found sexually unfulfilling, than that a woman would divorce a man who was keeping his covenants and treating her like gold but had admitted that he just had certain *thoughts* or *feelings* that he never has and never will act upon. And because if Ivie had wanted to say “I was willing to stick it out, but my wife wanted to leave me because she’s a homophobe”, he could have done that—but he didn’t. And because I think we all know what modern social media would do to a woman who publicly said she was *not* OK with her gay husband abandoning his covenants to her. I guess it is just easier to speculate with prejudice and blame the gay person when you actually have no knowledge of why they divorced or who asked for the divorce. I get it. Always better to think worse of the gay person than the straight spouse. Oh yeah, and a gay man would want to point the blame on his ex wife because, well, he is gay. Since he didn't then obviously he divorced to go off and live a heathen filled lifestyle. It might interest you that it was my wife that filed for divorce because she knew that I would not have the courage to do something like that. She knew I didn't want to hurt her, but that was ultimately the best decision for both of us. My wife also didn't divorce me because she was a homophobe and I would never call her that no matter what public office I was running for. What this post does point out quite effectively is that while not all people would vote against someone simply because they are gay, there certainly are some that would. 3
Kenngo1969 Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, california boy said: ... What this post does point out quite effectively is that while not all people would vote against someone simply because they are gay, there certainly are some that would. There is not a politician, an officeholder, or a candidate alive with whom I agree on absolutely everything, and if there is a voter-candidate pair on the planet of whom that can be said, both halves of the pair need to have their heads examined, in my opinion. As much as I couldn't see myself voting for a Democrat for President of the United States in any case, I would have voted for Pete Buttigieg a million times over before I'd vote for Vice President Joe Biden or Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. I think anybody who would make sexual orientation a litmus test in deciding for whom to vote would be just plain wrong. Edited July 9, 2020 by Kenngo1969
strappinglad Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Secretary of State Bill Clinton. Oops ! HRC .
Kenngo1969 Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 21 minutes ago, strappinglad said: Oops ! HRC . Meh. Turn him over, you get Hillary, turn her over, you get Bill! Fixed! Thanks!
california boy Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said: There is not a politician, an officeholder, or a candidate alive with whom I agree on absolutely everything, and if there is a voter-candidate pair on the planet of whom that can be said, both halves of the pair need to have their heads examined, in my opinion. As much as I couldn't see myself voting for a Democrat for President of the United States in any case, I would have voted for Pete Buttigieg a million times over before I'd vote for Vice President Joe Biden or Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. I think anybody who would make sexual orientation a litmus test in deciding for whom to vote would be just plain wrong. I personally think in this day and age, the majority of people don't think that a persons orientation is something to consider whether they are qualified for office, but obviously some it does matter.
Kenngo1969 Posted July 9, 2020 Posted July 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, california boy said: I personally think in this day and age, the majority of people don't think that a persons orientation is something to consider whether they are qualified for office, but obviously some it does matter. And, as I said (in case you, you know, missed it, or something) ... they're wrong. (Let me know if you need me to adjust that typeface to drive home the point yet further, since I've already said it ... twice!)
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