The Effect of the Virus on the Church

[Duncan]

Tithing will go down, welfare needs will go up, but they won't be building new chapels, maybe announce some Temples but who knows when they' start them?

[Meadowchik]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

That sounds too vague and generalizing to be productive.

Nah, not at all. If you want to really talk about concepts that can make organisations healthier, I am interested in that discussion

[Meadowchik]

14 hours ago, CV75 said:

I understand why you might be offended if you felt the comment that “some of those who were so critical of the Church saving up big time for a rainy day, may now think better of their shallow comments” was aimed at people who take transparency to be the problem. While they are two different things, I can see how people put them together. But which is the more important issue – strategy or transparency?

Do you reject the Church’s explanation that basically we operate on an honor system, from the initial payment of tithing to their eventual disposition? That kind of puts the expectation for transparency in its place, in favor of faith. A so-called lack of transparency is not a problem for those so engaged, whether it is considered a strategy or a religious / spiritual / moral value.

The links I provided are not to counter a claim of a lack of transparency but to show what is done on the honor system, offering you an opportunity to critique that instead. After all, transparency is required where corruption is expected or suspected, given there is enough evidence: do you have any?

Transparency does not have to be built into every system. Political and economic systems, yes; but religious systems, no. And this Church actually says that in so many words, so why would you expect to be “given or promised the full information” and “owed a full accounting (be we the public or believing members.)”?

So I’m not seeing how a so-called lack of transparency is a problem for you, given how religious systems operate, what this one is doing on the honor system, and how strategic judgement varies from institution to institution.

I think that some sort of corruption should be expected because people are flawed and make mistakes. It is an enormous error to make religious institutions an exception. It's arrogant and can cause great harm.

[Meadowchik]

14 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Financial and other sorts of transparency are certainly good ideas, and I have argued for them for years (to a blank wall), but that has nothing to do with the strong belief that irresponsible spending will help anyone.  That has always been false.  It does make some people feel good for a moment, but it is a long term failure and always has been.

Criticism of the funds accrual does not equal advocacy of irresponsible spending. Philanthropy can be done strategically and on large scales but it does take an investment of time and people and really good analysis.

[2BizE]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

It already is with the two hour schedule with 'third' hour home.

I was thinking one day per month from home.

[CV75]

7 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

I think that some sort of corruption should be expected because people are flawed and make mistakes. It is an enormous error to make religious institutions an exception. It's arrogant and can cause great harm.

That kind and level of corruption is generally covered by law, and when religious leaders (at least in nations where the Church is permitted to operate) do not abide, they go to jail. And saying things that have nothing to do with my questions, and said without answering my questions, stifles dialogue. It is also arrogant and can cause great harm (to the dialogue  ).

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Nah, not at all. If you want to really talk about concepts that can make organisations healthier, I am interested in that discussion

Normally I would agree with you and I vet pretty heavily secular charities I contribute to. If they did not publish anything i would not give. For the Church I make a complete exception because it is the only organization I owe a divine loyalty to. It is led by my divine King who I love and strive to trust completely. If He needs my money to test someone or it to be wasted somehow that is His business though I expect such instances are rare. His asking for my substance is not compelled but it is expected and it is just and it is lawful. I have the option to not pay with no coercion but I am obligated to pay due to the covenants I have made. I do not care about transparency. I found some of the recent "revelations" interesting from a curiosity point of view but they had no impact on my willingness to pay. I find the desire to know where the money goes as a condition of being willing to give to be destructive to the very purpose of that giving.