Translators Needed!

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, pogi said:

They will ask about comorbidities such as history of chronic lung disease, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, hypertension, immunocompromising conditions, etc.  They will want to know their medications too.  They will need consent for any treatment, and if they are not using a translator with good medical vocabulary, it could be a huge liability if the patient doesn’t really understand what they were fully consenting to, or if the doctor doesn’t fully understand the patients condition and medications before treating.

Law suits sky rocket in epidemics/pandemics.  It’s a fine balance in those situations of being resourceful and stretching while doing your best to cover your own butt.

Could a typical English-speaking lay person be expected to be conversant with terms like “comorbidities” and “immunocompromising”? Wouldn’t a conscientious medical provider, in speaking to a patient, endeavor to use terminology that is plainer and thus more accessible to being rendered in another language by an interpreter?**
 

**One who renders spoken words in another language is more correctly referred to as an interpreter, as opposed to a translator, one who works with written words. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[rongo]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Ventilator, incubate, and Resuscitate are unlikely to be known by missionaries, I suspect.  Medical terminology is not just technical terms only professionals use.

In addition to other good responses here (Scott Lloyd and mfbukowski), I like what B.H. Roberts said in addressing translation methods of the Book of Mormon: "Literal translation is literal nonsense." Meaning, helper translators are not going to transfer over 1:1 jargon and medical terms; they are going to put them into language both targets can understand. This would also include asking the medical personnel follow-up questions if the translator himself doesn't understand what they mean. 

"machine to help you breathe," "time for a virus to multiply or become infectious," and "bring you back if you stop breathing or your heart stops" work just fine in helping stressed, scared people and medical personnel understand each other. Missionaries literally (see what I did there?  ) do this all the time --- not being absolutely fluent, they bridge gaps by using circumlocution. People appreciate that they can make themselves understood, sometimes in novel and interesting ways. 

[Robert F. Smith]

On 3/30/2020 at 2:10 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

Such meetings are easily handled by Skype or Zoom.  There is no need for in-person translations.

I had an appt with my doctor today (nothing important) by telemed.  Had never done that before.  Wave of the future.

[mfbukowski]

13 hours ago, rongo said:

 

Error, deleted

Edited April 1, 2020 by mfbukowski
Error

[Calm]

13 hours ago, rongo said:

"machine to help you breathe," "time for a virus to multiply or become infectious," and "bring you back if you stop breathing or your heart stops" work just fine in helping stressed, scared people and medical personnel understand each other. Missionaries literally (see what I did there?  ) do this all the time --- not being absolutely fluent, they bridge gaps by using circumlocution. People appreciate that they can make themselves understood, sometimes in novel and interesting ways. 

I agree that this level of communication can fulfill many needs and in emergencies is extremely helpful, if limited.  But many individuals will be intending to do additional research themselves as well as pass on the information to others (families, friends, doctors) and will for that reason want the most accurate and commonly used terms for future reference.

Thankfully missionaries or other amateur interpreters should be able to pick up the most commonly used terms relatively quickly.  I assume if the hospitals make use of someone like the missionaries, they will have reference sheets of useful terms available.  For the rest, online translation dictionaries or even books can fill the gaps when more time is available.

[pogi]

16 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Could a typical English-speaking lay person be expected to be conversant with terms like “comorbidities” and “immunocompromising”? Wouldn’t a conscientious medical provider, in speaking to a patient, endeavor to use terminology that is plainer and thus more accessible to being rendered in another language by an interpreter?**

A medical provider can only be so simple.  How would a missionary know how to say “gallbladder infection” or “emphysema” in Mandarin? Or more likely from Mandarin to English in this scenario?  What about  “autoimmune disease”? Or congestive heart failure?  Or even simple things like asthma, mucus, or phlegm?  I don’t know how to say that in Tagalog.  When explaining procedures and potential risks of anesthesia and  intubation, you would hope to have someone that at least knows how to say “lungs”.  You’d probably be surprised at how little missionaries actually know.  Multiply that with an extremely high stress situation where the patient is coughing in your face and is gasping for breath, where time is of the essence and doctors don’t have time for you to fumble around words and beat around the bush, where the missionary is decked out in protective gear from head to toe and anxious if he donned it properly and worried about getting infected himself...

Edited April 1, 2020 by pogi

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, pogi said:

A medical provider can only be so simple.  How would a missionary know how to say “gallbladder infection” in Mandarin? Or more likely from Mandarin to English in this scenario?  What about  “autoimmune disease”? Or congestive heart failure?  Or even simple things like asthma, mucus, or phlegm?  I don’t know how to say that in Tagalog.  When explaining potential risks of anesthesia and procedures such as intubation, I wonder how well a missionary could explain the procedure let alone the risks? 

Taking patient histories of medical problems...hopefully online translators can help there.  Allergies to medications and foods or anything else.  Specifics can be important there.

I can see using amateur translators for 'triage', if confusion exists they get passed onto a more experienced translator.  Also amateurs can be comfort resources, 'staying' with a family while their loved one is being cared for, helping with distraction perhaps since the family will be excluded as I understand if under quarantine, checking with them to see if other family members are showing symptoms as days pass.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Calm

[pogi]

16 minutes ago, Calm said:

Taking patient histories of medical problems...hopefully online translators can help there.  Allergies to medications and foods or anything else.  Specifics can be important there.

I can see using amateur translators for 'triage', if confusion exists they get passed onto a more experienced translator.  Also amateurs can be comfort resources, 'staying' with a family while their loved one is being cared for, helping with distraction perhaps since the family will be excluded as I understand if under quarantine, checking with them to see if other family members are showing symptoms as days pass.

They absolutely could be put to good use in many ways, but no way could they take the place of a medical interpreter which it sounded like was being suggested...unless there literally was no other option.  I doubt we are there yet.

[mfbukowski]

On 3/30/2020 at 9:50 PM, pogi said:

They will ask about comorbidities such as history of chronic lung disease, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, hypertension, immunocompromising conditions, etc.  They will want to know their medications too.  They will need consent for any treatment, and if they are not using a translator with good medical vocabulary, it could be a huge liability if the patient doesn’t really understand what they were fully consenting to, or if the doctor doesn’t fully understand the patients condition and medications before treating.

Law suits sky rocket in epidemics/pandemics.  It’s a fine balance in those situations of being resourceful and stretching while doing your best to cover your own butt.

So generic drug names are different in different languages?

Pharmacist need to know every language on Earth to fill a prescription?

[mfbukowski]

The OP was about finding people who could speak different languages. The excellent suggestion to use returned missionaries was suggested.

The question was asked how this could be organized.

So now we are wasting a lot of energy discussing the supposed requirements for such help.

I am presuming that who ever at is asking for translators would know the requirements better than we do and that is a waste of time to try to be doing their business for them.

If they don't know what they need than all the guessing in the world won't help them.

I have an novel idea and that's actually answering the question raised in the OP, 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

So generic drug names are different in different languages?

Not everyone calls drugs by generics.  Especially if they are taking a brand name.  I still use the brand name for the vast majority of my drugs and my family members would therefore know them by these names, not generics. I can never remember the generic for Zofran, for example. 
 

A common drug name in Australia I wondered about when reading or watching Australian stories is ”paracetamol”.  Eventually I looked it up. 

Edited April 1, 2020 by Calm

[pogi]

6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

So generic drug names are different in different languages?

Pharmacist need to know every language on Earth to fill a prescription?

I was thinking more in terms of drug classes.  “Are you taking any immunosuppressants?”, for example.   But drug companies do market under different names in different countries.  It becomes difficult when treating foreigners,

Edited April 1, 2020 by pogi

[pogi]

6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

The OP was about finding people who could speak different languages. The excellent suggestion to use returned missionaries was suggested.

The question was asked how this could be organized.

So now we are wasting a lot of energy discussing the supposed requirements for such help.

I am presuming that who ever at is asking for translators would know the requirements better than we do and that is a waste of time to try to be doing their business for them.

If they don't know what they need than all the guessing in the world won't help them.

I have an novel idea and that's actually answering the question raised in the OP, 

I am simply suggesting that there are likely qualifications that return missionaries wouldn’t meet.  

[Calm]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

I am simply suggesting that there are likely qualifications that return missionaries wouldn’t meet.  

Do you think it is possible they could be part of a multi step process for admission, do the easy stuff which is then double checked by the trained interpreter when they go into more detail as well as helping out with compassionate services or whatever hospitals call care of patients’ families?

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Not everyone calls drugs by generics.  Especially if they are taking a brand name.  I still use the brand name for the vast majority of my drugs and my family members would therefore know them by these names, not generics. I can never remember the generic for Zofran, for example. 
 

A common drug name in Australia I wondered about when reading or watching Australian stories is ”paracetamol”.  Eventually I looked it up. 

That's the problem.

There is a universal language for naming drugs, which will always ensure you also getting the best price, and that is using the generic name.  One name for all brands. Less expensive. Just as effective. No translation problems.

My network uses only generic names. It makes sense. 

 

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

There is a universal language for naming drugs, which will always ensure you also getting the best price, and that is using the generic name.  One name for all brands. Less expensive. Just as effective. No translation problems.

Worldwide?

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Do you think it is possible they could be part of a multi step process for admission, do the easy stuff which is then double checked by the trained interpreter when they go into more detail as well as helping out with compassionate services or whatever hospitals call care of patients’ families?

It would all be part of triage, as I see it. But yet again, that is not what the OP is looking for.

[mfbukowski]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Worldwide?

I believe so. 

Otherwise health pros would have to know every language in the world just to communicate 

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I believe so. 

Otherwise health pros would have to know every language in the world just to communicate 

There is the metric system and the imperial system; communication still occurs.

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, pogi said:

It becomes difficult when treating foreigners,

If true there is no excuse for that.

How often do they translate between countries? They just use the chemical formula? 

I cannot believe that that is the case.

And it makes the business is suggested by the OP  impossible. Why would they even ask that question then?

What translator, even those who grew up bilingual and are therefore totally fluent in both languages, would know that?

It makes no sense at all.

[mfbukowski]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

There is the metric system and the imperial system; communication still occurs.

Not really

In health everything is metric.

[mfbukowski]

Ok. 

I am out. This thread has lost its meaning.

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Not really

In health everything is metric.

I found a drug site that list over 20 generic names for the same drug, probably 2/3 easily recognizable but others not.  Can't link without a 403.  I don't know if this has been resolved by professionals or not.  I know a Canadian doctor, but no nonEnglish speaking ones to ask if it is an actual issue.

Problems travelers might encounter in locating prescription meds, some of this could be a factor in patient histories:

https://www.statnews.com/2017/12/22/prescriptions-traveling-overseas-tips/

I guess after living in Canada and Moscow, I am just not comfortable assuming this won't be one of the translation issues.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

37 minutes ago, Calm said:

I found a drug site that list over 20 generic names for the same drug, probably 2/3 easily recognizable but others not.  Can't link without a 403.  I don't know if this has been resolved by professionals or not.  I know a Canadian doctor, but no nonEnglish speaking ones to ask if it is an actual issue.

Problems travelers might encounter in locating prescription meds, some of this could be a factor in patient histories:

https://www.statnews.com/2017/12/22/prescriptions-traveling-overseas-tips/

I guess after living in Canada and Moscow, I am just not comfortable assuming this won't be one of the translation issues.

Fine

Then let's just tell the people spoken about in the OP that their business will not work, and we have determined that, and we hereby condemn it to certain failure.

Resistance is futile.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Fine

Then let's just tell the people spoken about in the OP that their business will not work, and we have determined that, and we hereby condemn it to certain failure.

Resistance is futile.

You seem to be having a different conversation than what I was talking about.