Mexican ambush kills family in massacre

[Meadowchik]

10 hours ago, blarsen said:

Here's DT's reaction.  Now calm down.  I''m not posting these to trigger those of you who may suffer from TDS:

"This is the time for Mexico, with the help of the United States, to wage WAR on the drug cartels and wipe them off the face of the earth. We merely await a call from your great new president!"

"A wonderful family and friends from Utah got caught between two vicious drug cartels, who were shooting at each other, with the result being many great American people killed, including young children, and some missing. If Mexico needs or requests help in cleaning out these monsters, the United States stands ready, willing & able to get involved and do the job quickly and effectively. The great new President of Mexico has made this a big issue, but the cartels have become so large and powerful that you sometimes need an army to defeat an army!"

 

A supposedly pervasive attitude in Mexico is that many citizens feel the government is more corrupt than the cartels. 

This is to say that the situation is more complex than Trump implies. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Meadowchik

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Sure, nothing will soften the hearts of the kind of people who gladly shoot and burn 8 month old twins like a good social program. 

In the Book of Mormon after the defeat and capture of the Gadianton murderers they preached the gospel to them and converted them and then let them go. Gladly shoot and kill? You think they did it for fun?

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, blarsen said:

That's Trump's style.  It obviously grates on you.  Norman Vincent Peale was allegedly his main pastor when he was young.

It is not his style. It is the mark of an underdeveloped mind to throw on dull and hyperbolic and often untrue adjectives and then repeat them endlessly.

I see Peale’s possible influence more in Trump’s unverifiable anecdotes and the anonymous people who supposedly are always telling him what a good job he is doing. Sounds like Peale’s ridiculous book.

[rodheadlee]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

In the Book of Mormon after the defeat and capture of the Gadianton murderers they preached the gospel to them and converted them and then let them go. Gladly shoot and kill? You think they did it for fun?

Well get down here and preach the gospel to them Mexico awaits.

Edited November 6, 2019 by rodheadlee

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Well get down here and preach the gospel to them Mexico awaits.

Would love to. Martyrdom is a good exit strategy. Sadly though I do not have a proselyting visa and Illegal immigration is wrong or so I am told.

[strappinglad]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You think they did it for fun?

You think they did it with a sorrowful heart and with their conscience screaming at them the whole time ? You and I have very different views of these ,probably hardened killers. 

The Mexican government seems to be trying to fight the gangs while at the same time the gangs infiltrate and corrupt the civil authorities, police , military etc.. Nephite-esque

The Lamanites hunted the robbers down and I have a hard time believing it was done without a lot of bloodshed on both sides. 

As for finding a solution, I am keeping a eye on the Portugal one. 

 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, strappinglad said:

You think they did it with a sorrowful heart and with their conscience screaming at them the whole time ? You and I have very different views of these ,probably hardened killers. 

The Mexican government seems to be trying to fight the gangs while at the same time the gangs infiltrate and corrupt the civil authorities, police , military etc.. Nephite-esque

The Lamanites hunted the robbers down and I have a hard time believing it was done without a lot of bloodshed on both sides. 

As for finding a solution, I am keeping a eye on the Portugal one. 

 

No, I think they did it because they felt they had to.

And yes, Mexico has a serious problem with government corruption.

[blarsen]

11 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

A supposedly pervasive attitude in Mexico is that many citizens feel the government is more corrupt than the cartels. 

This is to say that the situation is more complex than Trump implies. 

Well, help is on the way.  Cartels in Sinaloa recently beat the Mexican army in pitched battles:  https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-the-sinaloa-drug-cartel-clobbered-the-mexican-army/   I'm saying that tongue-in-cheek, of course.

With this and the recent massacre of Mormon-related  innocents, the border wall and troops on the border is looking even more attractive to me.

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by blarsen

[Meadowchik]

4 minutes ago, blarsen said:

Well, help is on the way.  Cartels in Sinaloa recently beat the Mexican army in pitched battles:  https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-the-sinaloa-drug-cartel-clobbered-the-mexican-army/   That's tongue-in-cheek, of course.

 

Our neighbors regularly send money to their family in Mexico. At one point, the sister in Mexico ran a business and it was quite successful, until she was losing money trying to pay off three different extorting gangs. She obviously had no choice but to close shop.

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Meadowchik

[blarsen]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is not his style. It is the mark of an underdeveloped mind to throw on dull and hyperbolic and often untrue adjectives and then repeat them endlessly.

I see Peale’s possible influence more in Trump’s unverifiable anecdotes and the anonymous people who supposedly are always telling him what a good job he is doing. Sounds like Peale’s ridiculous book.

"Doctor, doctor give me the news, I've got a bad case of the TDS blues."

[rodheadlee]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Would love to. Martyrdom is a good exit strategy. Sadly though I do not have a proselyting visa and Illegal immigration is wrong or so I am told.

40.00 for s visa.

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, blarsen said:

"Doctor, doctor give me the news, I've got a bad case of the TDS blues."

If being concerned and even enraged at a President violating all the norms and mores and constitutional limits of governance in the pursuit of his own personal goals and the destruction of his personal enemies constitutes derangement then sanity is vastly overrated. Many wink at it or ignore it because they like the ends the means are bringing to fruition. There would be a crude and horrible justice if someone they opposed were to take power and violate all those norms. I admit I will be hard pressed to feel empathy for them when they cheered tearing down the very limits they now whine about being gone. I like some of his goals myself. I abhor his conduct in trying to reach those goals and think his approach betrays vast stupidity but the real danger is the corrosion of governmental limit and customs that protected excess. Beware of Greeks even when they bring gifts.

[The Nehor]

26 minutes ago, blarsen said:

Well, help is on the way.  Cartels in Sinaloa recently beat the Mexican army in pitched battles:  https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-the-sinaloa-drug-cartel-clobbered-the-mexican-army/   I'm saying that tongue-in-cheek, of course.

With this and the recent massacre of Mormon-related  innocents, the border wall and troops on the border is looking even more attractive to me.

 

Walls, a terrifying obstacle. Only circumventable by arcane devices like a ladder but these mythical artifacts exist only in legend so we should be safe.

[The Nehor]

21 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

40.00 for s visa.

Do I look like I am made of money?

 

[blarsen]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Do I look like I am made of money?

 

$40?  PM me with your address; I'll gladly send it to you.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, blarsen said:

$40?  PM me with your address; I'll gladly send it to you.

I also need gas to drive to the border, factor in wear and tear on the car, pet sitting for the sugar gliders, and then I would need you to pay off my mortgage since I would have to leave my job. Then I will be dead so I need money to cover the funeral and help some others that I help support. Half a million should cover it. Let’s make it happen!

[blarsen]

23 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

If being concerned and even enraged at a President violating all the norms and mores and constitutional limits of governance in the pursuit of his own personal goals and the destruction of his personal enemies constitutes derangement then sanity is vastly overrated. Many wink at it or ignore it because they like the ends the means are bringing to fruition. There would be a crude and horrible justice if someone they opposed were to take power and violate all those norms. I admit I will be hard pressed to feel empathy for them when they cheered tearing down the very limits they now whine about being gone. I like some of his goals myself. I abhor his conduct in trying to reach those goals and think his approach betrays vast stupidity but the real danger is the corrosion of governmental limit and customs that protected excess. Beware of Greeks even when they bring gifts.

On steroids.  Ah well.  I guess not much hope for it.

My own view is that DT's first reaction by tweet was the correct, at least emotional, response.  And Obrador's polite refusal was also appropriate, especially in view of his army's recent setback in Sinaloa.  Any invite to the US for help would signal weakness to all his cadres, people and enemies.

[blarsen]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I also need gas to drive to the border, factor in wear and tear on the car, pet sitting for the sugar gliders, and then I would need you to pay off my mortgage since I would have to leave my job. Then I will be dead so I need money to cover the funeral and help some others that I help support. Half a million should cover it. Let’s make it happen!

In those terms, proffering that kind of help would put us in the same boat.  The original offer still stands, though.

[blarsen]

41 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Walls, a terrifying obstacle. Only circumventable by arcane devices like a ladder but these mythical artifacts exist only in legend so we should be safe.

Maybe not to the most determined . . . . at least to those not already using tunnels.  But yes, for the floods of thousands, knowing about the wall would give them pause . . . . BTW, what on earth happened to those massive convoys coming up from Guatemala, and other points south?  They seem to have evaporated into thin air.  My guess is they realized their wasn't a good cost-benefit ratio in their favor, also realized by those who were funding their mass migration.

Edited November 6, 2019 by blarsen

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, blarsen said:

Maybe not to the most determined . . . . at least to those not already using tunnels.  But yes, for the floods of thousands, knowing about the wall would give them pause . . . . BTW, what on earth happened to those massive convoys coming up from Guatemala, and other points south?  They seem to have evaporated into thin air.  My guess is they realized their wasn't a good cost-benefit ration in their favor, also realized by those who were funding their mass migration.

The criminal elements you suggested above justified the wall are the least like to be deterred by a wall.

[The Nehor]

13 minutes ago, blarsen said:

On steroids.  Ah well.  I guess not much hope for it.

My own view is that DT's first reaction by tweet was the correct, at least emotional, response.  And Obrador's polite refusal was also appropriate, especially in view of his army's recent setback in Sinaloa.  Any invite to the US for help would signal weakness to all his cadres, people and enemies.

The President should not be publicly venting his emotional first response. It was an insult to Mexico.

I would have been far less polite if I were Obrador to the doofus undermining any attempt by me to solve the problem. The tweet itself already did the damage by implying weakness. I am guessing our President is too stupid to realize the implications of what he was saying and genuinely thought he was being helpful.

[blarsen]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The criminal elements you suggested above justified the wall are the least like to be deterred by a wall.

To a degree.  But a lot of drugs are currently muled directly across the border.  I've always seen the wall more as a deterrent to the massive influx of illegals

[blarsen]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The President should not be publicly venting his emotional first response. It was an insult to Mexico.

I would have been far less polite if I were Obrador to the doofus undermining any attempt by me to solve the problem. The tweet itself already did the damage by implying weakness. I am guessing our President is too stupid to realize the implications of what he was saying and genuinely thought he was being helpful.

Ah, such non-stop animus.

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, blarsen said:

To a degree.  But a lot of drugs are currently muled directly across the border.  I've always seen the wall more as a deterrent to the massive influx of illegals

It is not since most illegals come in on visas and never leave.

6 minutes ago, blarsen said:

Ah, such non-stop animus.

Oh, how it must offend your delicate sensibilities. Prithee forgive me for saying a lifelong crook is a crook when he behaves like a crook.

[MiserereNobis]

30 minutes ago, blarsen said:

Maybe not to the most determined . . . . at least to those not already using tunnels.  But yes, for the floods of thousands, knowing about the wall would give them pause . . . . BTW, what on earth happened to those massive convoys coming up from Guatemala, and other points south?  They seem to have evaporated into thin air.  My guess is they realized their wasn't a good cost-benefit ratio in their favor, also realized by those who were funding their mass migration.

But we're not talking about asylum seekers. We're talking about drug cartels. Walls do nothing to stop the cartels. Bringing up walls and asylum seekers in the context of this thread is a red herring.