The Tyranny of Enforced Tolerance

[USU78]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/supreme-court-case-funeral-home-cross-dressing-employee/

[USU78]

In other words, Do I really wanna look at that at Grandma's funeral?

[Calm]

Just go to dark suit with pants with button down white shirt and tie for both men and women rather than skirts for women. Problem solved. 

[The Nehor]

I would avoid reading the National Review unless you like being enraged. This is an older case. Is it going to the Supreme Court now?

[Calm]

Written by 

Quote

David Cortman is the vice president of U.S. litigation for Alliance Defending Freedom, which represents R. G. & G. R. Harris Funeral Homes.

 

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Just go to dark suit with pants with button down white shirt and tie for both men and women rather than skirts for women. Problem solved. 

I know I enjoy looking at a woman that wants to dress like a man. It is the very epitome of.....well, of.....gads, why does anyone think that we all need to look like each other? No, don't want it; don't like it. Still like the concept of feminine and masculine. 

[USU78]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I would avoid reading the National Review unless you like being enraged. This is an older case. Is it going to the Supreme Court now?

Yes. That's the point of bringing it up.

[USU78]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Just go to dark suit with pants with button down white shirt and tie for both men and women rather than skirts for women. Problem solved. 

Except that, in my experience, ostentation is the whole point.

[Calm]

24 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

I know I enjoy looking at a woman that wants to dress like a man. It is the very epitome of.....well, of.....gads, why does anyone think that we all need to look like each other? No, don't want it; don't like it. Still like the concept of feminine and masculine. 

Pants worn by women are not wanting to look like a man.  Pants are more convenient and comfortable in many jobs.  And they look great as well without having to wear tights, nylons, etc.

I never wore a dress or skirt to high school.  Either riding the bus on sticky seats or walking home, pants were a given rather than worrying about gross vinyl on hot days or winds catching the edge of my skirt and making it difficult to carry books and walk at the same time ( my high school was on the top of a hill and had lots of wind at times).  Never considered I was looking like a man, even in jeans.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, USU78 said:

Except that, in my experience, ostentation is the whole point.

Then pay extra bucks for the nicer suits.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Calm

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, USU78 said:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/supreme-court-case-funeral-home-cross-dressing-employee/ 

In other words, Do I really wanna look at that at Grandma's funeral?

Opinions and preferences will frequently differ in the margins of the law and society.  That is why we have a U. S. Supreme Court.  They say what the law in fact is.  Their decision need not be "correct."  Only that it is a decision on which we can rely.  That keeps us from pulling out the knives and going to work on each other.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Robert F. Smith

[USU78]

26 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Opinions and preferences will frequently differ in the margins of the law and society.  That is why we have a U. S. Supreme Court.  They say what the law in fact is.  Their decision need not be "correct."  Only that it is a decision on which we can rely.  That keeps us from pulling out the knives and going to work on each other.

Yeah. I've noticed that when SCOTUS speaks, hundreds of thousands of babies get slaughtered, and everybody is fine with it. See how I'm smiling? See how happy I am to see Moloch fed? See how not a soul has ever dissented?

Yup. SCOTUS rules. 

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Pants worn by women are not wanting to look like a man.  Pants are more convenient and comfortable in many jobs.  And they look great as well without having to wear tights, nylons, etc.

I never wore a dress or skirt to high school.  Either riding the bus on sticky seats or walking home, pants were a given rather than worrying about gross vinyl on hot days or winds catching the edge of my skirt and making it difficult to carry books and walk at the same time ( my high school was on the top of a hill and had lots of wind at times).  Never considered I was looking like a man, even in jeans.

I have no problem with pants on a woman and never have. I have a problem with men and women dressing in suits and ties so they look alike. 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

On 8/7/2019 at 8:01 PM, USU78 said:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/supreme-court-case-funeral-home-cross-dressing-employee/

I only know that forced anything, almost always leads to a lot too, both anger and rebellion. This pendulum (a sharp one) which cuts both ways, leading, some (but only a few) into trying to respect the idea, but for the most part, it leads to backlash, as they tire and wait for the pendulum to comeback down, and cut the entire PC World, into sheds, as onlookers cheer and applause. Many in my generation, (and others) do not act well , “when and where to stand in line”. , who do not act well when, “told what to say, what not to say, and at times are given or get handed a script. We are just now beginning to see the difficulty, and the many problems, that come into play where any authority figure is warning adult what say, what to do, now telling us what words can be used, words that become one part script, one part warnings that may be, that if (whomever) does not play along, causing some who hold and has Government, but then they have too speak, and Public Speaking, the single most feared assignment, along all socially levels, who is trying to us another’s words.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Rajah Manchou]

45 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

We are just now beginning to see the difficulty, and the many problems, that come into play where any authority fighure is warning adult what say, what to do, now telling us what words can be used

I was once a Mormon, then I was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, then I was a Mormon again, and then I was again a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In turn, I've stopped caring what anybody says I should say I am.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Storm Rider said:

I have no problem with pants on a woman and never have. I have a problem with men and women dressing in suits and ties so they look alike. 

It is the funeral director dictating how people look in his business and requiring people to look like each other, a uniform look.  Showing legs isn't any more feminine than not showing legs.  His right to dictate imo, but I don't see how that is any different than the government telling people what is and isn't allowed.  It is someone besides the individual deciding what they want to wear.  

[Calm]

Can't tell the difference between the two, right?  Is this a man or a woman?

 

 

[JulieM]

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is the funeral director dictating how people look in his business and requiring people to look like each other, a uniform look. 

Isn’t this just the same as going to a nice restaurant where both the waitresses and the waiters wear black slacks, white shirt and a tie?  That’s even the uniform at our local Cheesecake Factory.  I think they all look professional and very nice.

[Calm]

1 minute ago, JulieM said:

Isn’t this just the same as going to a nice restaurant where both the waitresses and the waiters wear black slacks, white shirt and a tie?  That’s even the uniform at our local Cheesecake Factory.  I think they all look professional and very nice.

But how are you going to tell the difference between the waiters and waitresses if the girls aren't  in skirts?  

Edited August 8, 2019 by Calm

[USU78]

22 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is the funeral director dictating how people look in his business and requiring people to look like each other, a uniform look.  Showing legs isn't any more feminine than not showing legs.  His right to dictate imo, but I don't see how that is any different than the government telling people what is and isn't allowed.  It is someone besides the individual deciding what they want to wear.  

So missing the point. The selfish, ostentatious worker makes himself the focus of everyone's attention. And this at a time the berieved are supposed to be coddled and cared for. They are or should be the focus of the event, not the spoiled brat.

I myself would refuse payment to the mortuary if my wife's funeral were coopted in such a fashion.

Appalling.

Edited August 8, 2019 by USU78

[JulieM]

10 minutes ago, USU78 said:

So missing the point. The selfish, ostentatious worker makes himself the focus of everyone's attention. And this at a time the berieved are supposed to be coddled and cared for. They are or should be the focus of the event, not the spoiled brat.

But the owner could defuse that by just having all employees dress in black slacks, white shirt and tie. They’d all look very classy and professional.  

Would you object to that?

I’ll bet many women today would prefer slacks anyway.  I love wearing dresses, but for work would choose black slacks over having to wear a black skirt every day.  

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by JulieM

[Calm]

I am not missing that point.  I am ignoring it.

I believe employees in funeral homes should fade into wallpaper.  It is about the family and friends there for me.  Better yet, just have a gathering at home.  Use the money to have cleaners come in to remove some stress.  But then lots of people like pomp and ceremony and the flashier and more attention getting the better.  Bring on the horses!

I am addressing StormRider's apparent fear that we won't be able to tell who is a woman if the women wear pants and ties.

There are plenty of places that go that route and look very stylish and attractive for both genders, imo.

I can think of plenty of reasons crossdressing or other unusual appearance may interfere with a business' purpose.   Fear of women looking like men shouldn't be one of them.  However, I know of no business save perhaps ones that objectify women's bodies that of necessity require women in skirts to fulfill the purpose of the business.  So a possible easy fix in businesses that don't want cross dressing or obvious transgender fashion would be to require a similar uniform for both genders with simple or no jewelry and limited, natural makeup.

I wouldn't want the funeral home of a beloved to be primarily known for being in a lawsuit.  That inevitable discussion would be quite distracting from the focus on the departed, imo.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

USU, am curious.  Some people find significantly obese people distracting or even repulsive.  If an employee gained an unusual amount of weight, but was still able to physically perform their duties, do you believe the funeral director should be able to fire them because their appearance is distracting or distasteful for some of the customers?

Edited August 8, 2019 by Calm

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Can't tell the difference between the two, right?  Is this a man or a woman?

 

 

That is clearly an alien invader masquerading as human. Look at the eyes.

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, USU78 said:

Except that, in my experience, ostentation is the whole point.

How much experience do you have with people who have transitioned gender?