SouthernMo Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I have a more practical solution. Make pornography illegal. Almost all predators worked their way up through porn into the illegal stuff. Not sure how helpful that would be. Narcotics are illegal, and yet people still use drugs! Prohibition was a disaster. There is evidence to support that prohibition produces more violent crime. I believe the solution to these problems (including this sensitive topic thread) lies in primarily addressing demand, rather than focusing on supply.
SouthernMo Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Gray said: Sexual predators pray on children. They're people but they're people who cannot be trusted with children. Ideally they should never see the outside of a prison, but barring that they should not see the inside of a church building. Who hurt you? Or was it a loved one?
Gray Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, MiserereNobis said: So the offender stays just for sacrament meeting (I remember the 3 parts from the few times I've attended... congratulations on getting it down to only 2! ) Possibly, as long as they are escorted out of the building immediately afterwards.
Gray Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, SouthernMo said: Who hurt you? Or was it a loved one? That's a really inappropriate question. I'm a parent so I have some concern over this issue. 3
MiserereNobis Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gray said: Ideally they should never see the outside of a prison That punishment doesn't fit the crime, especially since sex offender covers a very wide range of crimes.
Danzo Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Gray said: Should registered sex offenders be allowed to enter a grade school? what if they have children in the grade school? not allowed to meet with teacher? Not allowed to pick up children? Sometimes I feel that people on this board don't live in the real world. 1
Gray Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, MiserereNobis said: That punishment doesn't fit the crime, especially since sex offender covers a very wide range of crimes. As I recall the punishment that would most fit the crime involved hanging a millstone around the person's neck and dropping them into the sea. In lieu of that I'd take life in prison. That's a very appropriate punishment for ruining someone's life.
Gray Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Danzo said: what if they have children in the grade school? not allowed to meet with teacher? Not allowed to pick up children? Sometimes I feel that people on this board don't live in the real world. It's important to those of us with kids. If a sex offender has children in grade school the children should be moved into foster care. Edited April 9, 2019 by Gray
sjdawg Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 32 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Most churches have volunteers run their organizations. Our faith asks people to serve directly. We also cycle through leadership much more quickly. Apples and oranges. The argument that something has to be done and background checks are something is the old “appeal to desperation” fallacy. Ok. Let's do nothing and see what happens.
SouthernMo Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gray said: That's a really inappropriate question. I'm a parent so I have some concern over this issue. I’m a parent of four! I have concern over this issue, too! We should discuss it. I hope and pray leaders of all churches consistently ask what more they can do to protect children. But you seem to be filled with anger and vitriol towards these children of god. Often, those abusers were abused as children themselves, never got therapy, and their scars are revealed in outbursts of taking their pain out on others. I’m not advocating that we must immediately sympathize with anyone who harms a child. I’m just reminding you that these abusers, assailants, pedophiles, whatever you want to call them - they are people. Children of God. Let’s address the issue in a productive way, rather than put them in prison forever as you suggest. 2
bluebell Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, Gray said: Should registered sex offenders be allowed to enter a grade school? The laws are different for each state and usually depend on the type of crime, but sex offenders are allowed to enter grade schools all the time. It's conditional but some can still legally be in there. If they are chaperoned the entire time and didn't interact with children, there is no risk so I'm fine with that. Sex offenders aren't magic. They aren't going to hurt a child just because they are breathing the same air in an enclosed structure. I am all for restrictions and safeguarding but with this topic we as a society are too reactionary. We do a lot (feel great for all the action we are producing) but accomplish little that makes anything better. 1
bluebell Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 40 minutes ago, Gray said: You don't invite a snake to live with your pet mice. The end result is predictable and inevitable. Allowing sinners to worship God and take the sacrament on Sunday is not equal to inviting the snake to live your pet mice. Besides, Christ commands us to love the snake. The snake is still His child and of infinite worth to Him.
Danzo Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, Gray said: It's important to those of us with kids. If a sex offender has children in grade school the children should be moved into foster care. In the real world the children are sent back to their abusers homes.
Gray Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, SouthernMo said: I’m a parent of four! I have concern over this issue, too! We should discuss it. I hope and pray leaders of all churches consistently ask what more they can do to protect children. But you seem to be filled with anger and vitriol towards these children of god. Often, those abusers were abused as children themselves, never got therapy, and their scars are revealed in outbursts of taking their pain out on others. I’m not advocating that we must immediately sympathize with anyone who harms a child. I’m just reminding you that these abusers, assailants, pedophiles, whatever you want to call them - they are people. Children of God. Let’s address the issue in a productive way, rather than put them in prison forever as you suggest. Ted Bundy was a child of God too. That doesn't mean he didn't belong behind bars.
Gray Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, Danzo said: In the real world the children are sent back to their abusers homes. In an ideal world they wouldn't be, and the abusers would never see freedom again.
bluebell Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 15 minutes ago, Gray said: It's important to those of us with kids. If a sex offender has children in grade school the children should be moved into foster care. What?? That is an insane thing to say.
Danzo Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, bluebell said: What?? That is an insane thing to say. I don't think he lives in the same world we do.
Gray Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, bluebell said: Allowing sinners to worship God and take the sacrament on Sunday is not equal to inviting the snake to live your pet mice. Besides, Christ commands us to love the snake. The snake is still His child and of infinite worth to Him. "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea."
Danzo Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Gray said: In an ideal world they wouldn't be, and the abusers would never see freedom again. In my ideal world, there wouldn't be any abuse. As long as we are describing fantasy worlds, I think my fantasy is better than your fantasy. 1
Gray Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, bluebell said: What?? That is an insane thing to say. Do you think kids belong with their abusers? Personally I'm rather of the opinion that pedophiles don't make great parents. Call me crazy.
Gray Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 Just now, Danzo said: In my ideal world, there wouldn't be any abuse. As long as we are describing fantasy worlds, I think my fantasy is better than your fantasy. My fantasy is achievable.
bluebell Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Gray said: "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea." From what I've read, many bible scholars believe that this verse isn't about children, it's about those new to the gospel (which explains why it only applies to those who "believe in me"-that would be a weird caveat if He was talking about children) and a warning against those who would cause them to lose faith.
Gray Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, bluebell said: From what I've read, many bible scholars believe that this verse isn't about children, it's about those new to the gospel (which explains why it only applies to those who "believe in me"-that would be a weird caveat if He was talking about children) and a warning against those who would cause them to lose faith. 1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who then is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2Jesus invited a little child to stand among them. 3“Truly I tell you,” He said, “unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoever welcomes a little child like this in My name welcomes Me. 6But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea Or the original source, Mark, which doesn't add the story about the child, but gives no indication that "little one" is an any way metaphorical. 42But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be thrown into the sea Edited April 9, 2019 by Gray
pogi Posted April 9, 2019 Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) 57 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I have a more practical solution. Make pornography illegal. Almost all predators worked their way up through porn into the illegal stuff. Won't work, they'll just revert back to cave drawings I am pretty sure child molestation has been around for longer than modern porn. Edited April 9, 2019 by pogi 1
Popular Post bluebell Posted April 9, 2019 Popular Post Posted April 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, Gray said: Do you think kids belong with their abusers? Personally I'm rather of the opinion that pedophiles don't make great parents. Call me crazy. Because I know that being on the sex offender registry does not mean that the person abused their kids. I also know that not every sex offender is a pedophile. You might need to do some more research so that you're more up to speed on the information. Especially if you are going to be making strong statements. 5
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