Nevo Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 That seems to be the case outside North America. I haven't noticed the same trend within North America, though.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said: Just curious. Thanks You could probably do your own research on this. Just look up the bios of seventies and mission presidents, note down their occupations at the time of calling, then calculate the percentage of the whole of those who were working for the Church. Not a task I’m inclined to take on, but hey, if you’re curious. ... Edited July 2, 2018 by Scott Lloyd
Traela Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 The two guys highest on my "Local People Most Likely to Become General Authorities" list happen to be employed by the Church, but more than that I couldn't tell you.
Duncan Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 For all the Mission Presidents that have served here in this Canadian mission, only one worked for the Church
mnn727 Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 We have 2 former Mission Presidents in myWard and neither worked for the Church.
Guest Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 16 hours ago, nuclearfuels said: Just curious. Thanks Such people would certainly be more "visible", to GA's if working in Church Headquarters, Temple Square, or SL Temple. Other than this I cannot see it matter one way or the other. Being visible does not always mean you are seen in a positive light. 2
Duncan Posted July 2, 2018 Posted July 2, 2018 14 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Such people would certainly be more "visible", to GA's if working in Church Headquarters, Temple Square, or SL Temple. Other than this I cannot see it matter one way or the other. Being visible does not always mean you are seen in a positive light. There's this bishop in our stake and what a suck up he is to the Stake Presidency and one of them told me they find him annoying!!! as the NT says, they have their reward. 1
Guest Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 7 hours ago, Duncan said: There's this bishop in our stake and what a suck up he is to the Stake Presidency and one of them told me they find him annoying!!! as the NT says, they have their reward. I understand, there were people in the military that I outranked, that I would trust with my life. Then there were those whom I would not trust to stop traffic so I could cross the street. The same applied even more so as a police officer, and for those under my command. Being visible is not always a positive thing. As for Church service and callings, in these cases I see ambition in ecclesiastical matters as an ugly thing. It is one thing to seek in every way to "magnify one's calling", it is quite another to seek what some view as "promotions". President Hinckley put it well once, when he stated that "those who seek out such callings probably should have their heads examined". Or as Jesus Christ put it, "he that seeketh to exalt himself will be humbled, and he who is humble will be exalted". 2
nuclearfuels Posted July 3, 2018 Author Posted July 3, 2018 8 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Such people would certainly be more "visible", to GA's if working in Church Headquarters, Temple Square, or SL Temple. Other than this I cannot see it matter one way or the other. Being visible does not always mean you are seen in a positive light. THIS. This is the inescapable truth I'm hoping ceases to be, whilst finding zen in Zion
nuclearfuels Posted July 3, 2018 Author Posted July 3, 2018 24 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: I understand, there were people in the military that I outranked, that I would trust with my life. Then there were those whom I would not trust to stop traffic so I could cross the street. The same applied even more so as a police officer, and for those under my command. Being visible is not always a positive thing. As for Church service and callings, in these cases I see ambition in ecclesiastical matters as an ugly thing. It is one thing to seek in every way to "magnify one's calling", it is quite another to seek what some view as "promotions". President Hinckley put it well once, when he stated that "those who seek out such callings probably should have their heads examined". Or as Jesus Christ put it, "he that seeketh to exalt himself will be humbled, and he who is humble will be exalted". This confirms I need to get my head examined, but Bill, in all seriousness please help me understand: if I'm called to say YM or Primary for 8 years straight in 3 or 4 wards, and one Bishop in UT said the youth callings take more time than any other calling in the ward outside of bishopric....just not sure how fulfilling the same thing can be
Guest Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 29 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said: This confirms I need to get my head examined, but Bill, in all seriousness please help me understand: if I'm called to say YM or Primary for 8 years straight in 3 or 4 wards, and one Bishop in UT said the youth callings take more time than any other calling in the ward outside of bishopric....just not sure how fulfilling the same thing can be Trying to escape primary is not trying to seek a promotion. All Preisthood callings and almost every office is a lateral move, not a promotion. I have served in Bishoprics, High Counselor, Branch Presidencys, High Priest Group Leader, and a number of Stake callings. All I have ever wanted to do, is teach. We accept the calls we are given, but campaign for them, nor bemoan our station. So if you are called to Leadership positions then accept graciously, but never campaign for, or seek them out. I think this is what Presidency Hinckley was speaking about. Every calling that put me in a position where I would be privy to the good and the bad of members lives, it was very hard for me. But, I did my duty until the day I was released. Thankfully after all but one, I was always sent back to teach, either Gospel Essentials, Gospel Doctrine, and Priesthood. The longest time away from teaching in my 39+ years was when I went from Stake Clerk, then High Priest Group Leader, and then to the Bishopric. So then after those very long 11 years, I was able to return to my first love, teaching adults the Gospel. In my 39+ years of membership, I have taught in every adult class for 25-26+ years. I love it, it is what God has called me too. My first Priesthood blessing told me that, I was (or am) called to teach the Saints, every blessing or ordination following the first, the blessing and instructions were the same, and in some cases, much more forceful. The common thread is and was, Teach, Teach, Teach. Even my Patriarchal blessing told me that "God hath raised me up to teach the Saints, and to teach like few others can or could". Now the Patriarch might have thought I was someone else, but to this day, It has always been my calling on two different countries and continents, and other places anyway, this has been the common thread, I have been in many Stakes, Wards, Branches, something for which I have been so blessed. As any teacher can tell you, "the teacher is always the best student, althrough 1
cinepro Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 On 7/2/2018 at 8:15 AM, Duncan said: For all the Mission Presidents that have served here in this Canadian mission, only one worked for the Church Aren't most Mission Presidents usually somewhat independently wealthy? I've certainly never heard of someone who was unemployed or working as a greeter at Walmart being called. It's usually someone who has excelled at their career. Obviously, there are practical concerns like their ability to run an organization of several hundred missionaries, but having a bit of coin in the bank doesn't seem to lessen the chances.
cinepro Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 On 7/2/2018 at 10:35 AM, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Such people would certainly be more "visible", to GA's if working in Church Headquarters, Temple Square, or SL Temple. Other than this I cannot see it matter one way or the other. Being visible does not always mean you are seen in a positive light. I've mentioned that a few years ago, our family had a problem with some local leadership, and we escalated it to the Stake Presidency. This continued for several years, and my wife would not let it go. She became a particular thorn in the side of one of the counselors in the SP. Then, to her surprise, she was called to be the Stake Primary President last week by said counselor. She told me she was surprised being called by him after all that had happened, and I said "You do realize that that's the only reason they knew who you were, right? If you had just let it go, they'd have no idea you even existed." After she was set apart, I was talking to the counselor in the hallway and told him what I said, and he laughed and said it was probably true. Sometimes the Lord works in mysterious ways. 2
jkwilliams Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 1 minute ago, cinepro said: Aren't most Mission Presidents usually somewhat independently wealthy? I've certainly never heard of someone who was unemployed or working as a greeter at Walmart being called. It's usually someone who has excelled at their career. Obviously, there are practical concerns like their ability to run an organization of several hundred missionaries, but having a bit of coin in the bank doesn't seem to lessen the chances. When I worked for the church, there were some folks who were clearly "running" for general authority. As far as I know, it rarely worked, though I did have a friend recall that someone with the apt name "Craven" had been obviously campaigning for a high church calling. She said it was a testimony to her that he had never been called as a general authority. Except he had. My mission president was a religion professor at Ricks College, and he later became a general authority. The mission president in Bolivia a few years after my time was a career church employee, and his presidency had disastrous results. The only person I worked with at the Church Office Building who became a GA was Jay Jensen, who was in management in our department. He is a really good man who never sought a high calling. We took the same bus to Provo/Orem, so I got to know him fairly well. In fact, he still took the bus after he was made a GA. 1
Guest Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: When I worked for the church, there were some folks who were clearly "running" for general authority. As far as I know, it rarely worked, though I did have a friend recall that someone with the apt name "Craven" had been obviously campaigning for a high church calling. She said it was a testimony to her that he had never been called as a general authority. Except he had. My mission president was a religion professor at Ricks College, and he later became a general authority. The mission president in Bolivia a few years after my time was a career church employee, and his presidency had disastrous results. The only person I worked with at the Church Office Building who became a GA was Jay Jensen, who was in management in our department. He is a really good man who never sought a high calling. We took the same bus to Provo/Orem, so I got to know him fairly well. In fact, he still took the bus after he was made a GA. Good example. All of us throughout our lives can instantly bring to mind the name of someone whom you prayed would never be given a position of authority. By the same token, someone who any of us would be happy to work with and for, such is the two edged sword of being both visible and known by many.
Duncan Posted July 3, 2018 Posted July 3, 2018 35 minutes ago, cinepro said: Aren't most Mission Presidents usually somewhat independently wealthy? I've certainly never heard of someone who was unemployed or working as a greeter at Walmart being called. It's usually someone who has excelled at their career. Obviously, there are practical concerns like their ability to run an organization of several hundred missionaries, but having a bit of coin in the bank doesn't seem to lessen the chances. I think relatively so, incidentally the one who worked for the Church was the brokest! he brought all his 7 kids or something here, he was in CES in Utah, cool guy and cute daughters😍
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