Ancient horse skeleton found in Lehi, Utah

[LittleNipper]

10 hours ago, sunstoned said:

Didn't answer the question.

Yes it does. If there was no time until GOD created it, then GOD could always exist without the passage of time.

[LittleNipper]

On 5/10/2018 at 12:21 PM, MormonMason said:

There are no rain and showers in the regions of Antarctica whence the ice cores have been taken.  Rain hasn't fallen on that continent since after the south circumpolar current began when a land bridge between South America and Antarctica broke.  That is in part what keeps it so cold down there.  And, come on!  800,000 rain showers/refreezes during the flood??? During the flood the Bible says it rained constantly for "forty days and forty nights."  Even if we took it to mean "a long time" with no specificity of actual length of days, it would not count up to 800,000.  You're reaching and stretching.  But the layers do contain the record of atmospheric conditions during the times they were formed.  That is what isotopic analyses are for.  Here is the thing.  One also can figure out the temperatures at when these isotopes were set in ice.  There were no freeze/refreeze events.  Antarctica has been frozen more years than there are recorded years in the Bible.

There is no way you could possibly prove that rain has never fallen on Antarctica.   It may be true now but always and forever are not something you or anyone else could possibly prove.

[LittleNipper]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

Do you realize there are approximately 60 billion planets in the Milky Way galaxy alone that could support human life  out of up to 400 billion planets? Do you know how many galaxies there are in the Universe? 100 to 200 billion is the present estimate. 

So, that doesn't mean that life exists there. GOD is one Awesome GOD and if HIS creation doesn't blow your mind, I don't know what would!

[sunstoned]

6 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Yes it does. If there was no time until GOD created it, then GOD could always exist without the passage of time.

That is one powerful argument.  I am sure you could shoot down all kinds of evolution arguments with that.

Edited May 12, 2018 by sunstoned

[rodheadlee]

17 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

So, that doesn't mean that life exists there. GOD is one Awesome GOD and if HIS creation doesn't blow your mind, I don't know what would!

Do you think we are the only populated earth?

[ksfisher]

18 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Yes it does. If there was no time until GOD created it, then GOD could always exist without the passage of time.

I'm not sure I understand how God could exist without time existing also.

Imagine God sitting on his throne, getting up and walking across the room, and then sitting back down.

An interval passed between when God got up and when he returned to his throne. 

I would call this interval time.  An amount of time passed between the two events.

If the next time he did this he walked around the room twice a longer interval of time would have passed than the previous event.

 

[LittleNipper]

3 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Do you think we are the only populated earth?

Actually, I do believe this.  There have been enough people born here on earth over the last 6000 years to populate a million planets.  Adam and Eve by their act infected the entire universe ---- why would GOD allow that to happen to other planets if they did nothing wrong..? The reason for the universe is to put GOD on display for man, and to remind man of the power and vastness of GOD!

[LittleNipper]

3 hours ago, ksfisher said:

I'm not sure I understand how God could exist without time existing also.

Imagine God sitting on his throne, getting up and walking across the room, and then sitting back down.

An interval passed between when God got up and when he returned to his throne. 

I would call this interval time.  An amount of time passed between the two events.

If the next time he did this he walked around the room twice a longer interval of time would have passed than the previous event.

 

I believe GOD assumed a human form to interact with HIS creation. And frankly, only the Messiah took on that form. God the Father and the Holy Spirit for all intensive purposes are invisible. The Lord that walked in the Garden of Eden was a pre incarnate visitation of GOD/Christ!  This is why  Christians accept the Trinity though it is a very deep subject to take lightly... Christ is the personification of GOD. The three are one.

[ksfisher]

6 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

I believe GOD assumed a human form to interact with HIS creation. And frankly, only the Messiah took on that form. God the Father and the Holy Spirit for all intensive purposes are invisible. The Lord that walked in the Garden of Eden was a pre incarnate visitation of GOD/Christ!  This is why  Christians accept the Trinity though it is a very deep subject to take lightly... Christ is the personification of GOD. The three are one.

I’m not really sure how this relates to what I wrote.

[LittleNipper]

6 hours ago, ksfisher said:

I’m not really sure how this relates to what I wrote.

You see HIM seated on a throne! I see GOD intertwined, commingling ,  and simply being and then GOD created time, and set things in motion.  I mean scientist try to fathom the entire universe packed into a infinitesimal tightly packed unit that then explodes! I'm sure they don't fully comprehend their explanation and neither am I (a mere Christian) able to fully comprehend GOD! But since GOD exists in the past, present, and future all at the very same time --- and is in fact triune in HIS nature ----- I don't see HIM as ever alone. It might best be explained that GOD simply is a presence and sees everything as complete from beginning to eternity forever. I think you are trying to define GOD simply as some superhuman. That isn't how I see GOD at all.

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by LittleNipper

[Calm]

1 hour ago, LittleNipper said:

You see HIM seated on a throne! I see GOD intertwined, commingling ,  and simply being and then GOD created time, and set things in motion.  I mean scientist try to fathom the entire universe packed into a infinitesimal tightly packed unit that then explodes! I'm sure they don't fully comprehend their explanation and neither am I (a mere Christian) able to fully comprehend GOD! But since GOD exists in the past, present, and future all at the very same time --- and is in fact triune in HIS nature ----- I don't see HIM as ever alone. It might best be explained that GOD simply is a presence and sees everything as complete from beginning to eternity forever. I think you are trying to define GOD simply as some superhuman. That isn't how I see GOD at all.

 

So allthose biblical verses about seeing God on his throne are lies or delusions?

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Heaven,-God~s-Throne

[2PairsofCletes]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

So allthose biblical verses about seeing God on his throne are lies or delusions?

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Heaven,-God~s-Throne

or a literary form not meant to be taken literally .

 

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, 2PairsofCletes said:

or a literary form not meant to be taken literally .

 

Little Nipper insists on literal in other places.  Consistency would seem to require literal for this interpretation as well.

[LittleNipper]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Little Nipper insists on literal in other places.  Consistency would seem to require literal for this interpretation as well.

The Bible is a book of law, and an historical book, but it also is poetic in places and speaking of future events in others. Yet, I would have to say that where GOD places HIMSELF, that is HIS throne figuratively speaking... The Bible multiple times calls GOD invisible. Yet Jesus will sit enthroned as the descendant of King David in Jerusalem someday during the Millennial Kingdom.

See this for the parts of the Old Testament:  http://www1.cbn.com/biblestudy/major-divisions-of-the-old-testament

Edited May 13, 2018 by LittleNipper

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

The Bible is a book of law, and an historical book, but it also is poetic in places and speaking of future events in others. Yet, I would have to say that where GOD places HIMSELF, that is HIS throne figuratively speaking... The Bible multiple times calls GOD invisible.

Because He did not make Himself visible to the people. Why? He tells us. He that would see me, must surely die. So you make Him a liar with your invisible God. God has no need to stay out of sight if appearing would not kill us. But He would not allow Moses to see His face lest Moses die. No need to say this or so limit the ability of Moses to see Him if He were invisible as you and Orthodoxy pose. That comes out of a background of Greek philosophy imposed on scripture by the early orthodox Greek theologians. It is not scriptural. You believe Greek neo-Platonism rather than the scriptures.

[LittleNipper]

Colossians 1:15

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Hebrews 11:27

By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen.

John 1:18                                                                                                                                                                          

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

1 Timothy 6:16

 

who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Exodus 33:20

But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"

Job 9:11

"Were He to pass by me, I would not see Him; Were He to move past me, I would not perceive Him.

Job 23:8

"Behold, I go forward but He is not there, And backward, but I cannot perceive Him;

John 5:37

"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

1 Timothy 1:17

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

1 John 4:12

No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.

Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Edited May 13, 2018 by LittleNipper

[RevTestament]

6 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Colossians 1:15

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Hebrews 11:27

By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen.

John 1:18                                                                                                                                                                          

No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

1 Timothy 6:16

 

who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

Exodus 33:20

But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"

 

Yep. That's the one. Thanks for looking it up for me. So is God worried about man seeing an invisible God and dying? Or is He worried about making sure man does not prematurely die, so stays out of sight? 

Quote

Job 9:11

"Were He to pass by me, I would not see Him; Were He to move past me, I would not perceive Him.

Job 23:8

"Behold, I go forward but He is not there, And backward, but I cannot perceive Him;

John 5:37

"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.

 

I am surprised you didn't post the prior chapter verse about God being a spirit. I like that one. In fact He is the Father of spirits according to the NT. And you know all us other spirits... we are invisible. So why is Yeshua telling us we have not seen the form of the Father if He has none?

Quote

1 Timothy 1:17

Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

1 John 4:12

No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.

Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Like I said He is invisible to us, because we cannot withstand His presence and live, so He must remain invisible. But the Son is in His express image...his personage. not just His spirit.

Hebrews 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his ^aglory, and the express image of his ^bperson, and upholding all things by the word of his ^cpower, when he had by himself ^dpurged our sins, sat down on the ^eright handof the ^fMajesty on high;

 

[LittleNipper]

4 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Yep. That's the one. Thanks for looking it up for me. So is God worried about man seeing an invisible God and dying? Or is He worried about making sure man does not prematurely die, so stays out of sight? 

I am surprised you didn't post the prior chapter verse about God being a spirit. I like that one. In fact He is the Father of spirits according to the NT. And you know all us other spirits... we are invisible. So why is Yeshua telling us we have not seen the form of the Father if He has none?

Like I said He is invisible to us, because we cannot withstand His presence and live, so He must remain invisible. But the Son is in His express image...his personage. not just His spirit.

Hebrews 1:3

3 Who being the brightness of his ^aglory, and the express image of his ^bperson, and upholding all things by the word of his ^cpower, when he had by himself ^dpurged our sins, sat down on the ^eright handof the ^fMajesty on high;

 

Jesus has assumed an eternal form, and the right hand of the Majesty illustrates His connection to being GOD Himself. A Christian will one day see Jesus, but unless one may regard a blinding light s seeing the Father, I don't agree with any interpretation that tries to give the Father and the Holy Spirit bodies of flesh and bone.

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

Jesus has assumed an eternal form, and the right hand of the Majesty illustrates His connection to being GOD Himself. A Christian will one day see Jesus, but unless one may regard a blinding light s seeing the Father, I don't agree with any interpretation that tries to give the Father and the Holy Spirit bodies of flesh and bone.

It's amazing how all the sudden the literalists refuse to believe either Yeshua or the Father Himself. They do not believe Stephen either that He saw Yeshua on the right hand of God. They do not believe Moses that he saw God's "back parts," and that God has to make efforts for man not to see Him or man will die. In essence they believe God is a liar, and makes this up about Himself? Why? Because they believe a lie promoted by that one that is merely a spirit - that God is only spirit too.  For them to believe what the scriptures actually say would mean LDS are right - and they can't have that. Therefore, they are kept from the truth - many of them in their own scriptures - even the truth revealed by Yeshua Himself which tore the veil in the temple for all to see the way to the Father embodied by Yeshua Himself who did exactly what He had seen the Father do, even laying down His life for us as well. There you have it. The highest truth of the temple and man will not receive it. Wherefore because they believed not the truth, and made God into their own Grecian image, God said "I will send them strong delusion, that they will believe a lie." 2 Thessalonians 2:11

[LittleNipper]

11 hours ago, RevTestament said:

It's amazing how all the sudden the literalists refuse to believe either Yeshua or the Father Himself. They do not believe Stephen either that He saw Yeshua on the right hand of God. They do not believe Moses that he saw God's "back parts," and that God has to make efforts for man not to see Him or man will die. In essence they believe God is a liar, and makes this up about Himself? Why? Because they believe a lie promoted by that one that is merely a spirit - that God is only spirit too.  For them to believe what the scriptures actually say would mean LDS are right - and they can't have that. Therefore, they are kept from the truth - many of them in their own scriptures - even the truth revealed by Yeshua Himself which tore the veil in the temple for all to see the way to the Father embodied by Yeshua Himself who did exactly what He had seen the Father do, even laying down His life for us as well. There you have it. The highest truth of the temple and man will not receive it. Wherefore because they believed not the truth, and made God into their own Grecian image, God said "I will send them strong delusion, that they will believe a lie." 2 Thessalonians 2:11

Let me ask you something. Do you firmly believe that the earth was created in 6 literal days. And do you firmly believe that the Flood of Noah inundated the entire earth? And do you firmly believe that Moses crossed the Dead Sea on dry land?  And do you firmly believe that the Church is protected from satan and that the word of GOD is literally protected by GOD? Did Stephen have a vision and did he actually see the Father or perhaps a brilliant light with Jesus standing next to it? Did Moses see the butt of GOD or was what Moses saw a shadow or a shielded vision of GOD. Mormon seem to pick and choose what they want to believe and what they will believe based on how the LDS organization educates them. GOD is not flesh and bone. Jesus became flesh and bone possessing GOD's Spirit to become our SAVIOR. ONLY Jesus the CHRIST died for our sins ever. Jesus was not following the Father's example --- He did His Father's will. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by LittleNipper

[RevTestament]

17 minutes ago, LittleNipper said:

And do you firmly believe that the Church is protected from satan and that the word of GOD is literally protected by GOD? Did Stephen have a vision and did he actually see the Father or perhaps a brilliant light with Jesus standing next to it? Did Moses see the butt of GOD or was what Moses saw a shadow or a shielded vision of GOD. Mormon seem to pick and choose what they want to believe and what they will believe based on how the LDS organization educates them. GOD is not flesh and bone. Jesus became flesh and bone possessing GOD's Spirit to become our SAVIOR. ONLY Jesus the CHRIST died for our sins ever. Jesus was not following the Father's example --- He did His Father's will. 

Like I said, you do not believe what the scriptures plainly say, while proclaiming that you do: 

John 5:19

19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he ^aseeth the ^bFather do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

But you being smarter than Jesus tell Him that He didn't know what He was saying.

Why did the Father say that Yeshua would glorify His name again? What is that name? What is it derived from in the Hebrew alphabet?

Quote

Let me ask you something. Do you firmly believe that the earth was created in 6 literal days.

Six days as defined by God, yes. You believe in six earth days. I do not.

Quote

And do you firmly believe that the Flood of Noah inundated the entire earth? 

No. I believe that is hyperbole.  You do not. For example where Daniel says the horn of the he-goat waxed strong over all the earth, I read that as Alexander conquering all the lands around him. Did he conquer the whole world? No. Did Noah also take all the plants with him on the ark? If not, how did a bird return with an olive leaf? How did all the other plants survive a brackish flood? If you say by miracle, then why need an ark to save the animals?

Quote

And do you firmly believe that Moses crossed the Dead Sea on dry land? 

Yep. Dry enough to walk on anyway.

 

[LittleNipper]

RevTestament  wrote: Six days as defined by God, yes. You believe in six earth days. I do not. (Seems you are most selective in you opinion of GOD and HIS abilities and the relevance of HIS WORD.)

Genesis 1 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

Parashah 1: B’resheet (In the beginning) 1:1–6:8

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ² The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water. ³ Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. ⁴ God saw that the light was good, and God divided the light from the darkness. ⁵ God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. So there was evening, and there was morning, one day. A day as defined by GOD to Moses.

⁶ God said, “Let there be a dome in the middle of the water; let it divide the water from the water.” ⁷ God made the dome and divided the water under the dome from the water above the dome; that is how it was, ⁸ and God called the dome Sky. So there was evening, and there was morning, a second day.   A day as defined by GOD to Moses.

⁹ God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let dry land appear,” and that is how it was. ¹⁰ God called the dry land Earth, the gathering together of the water he called Seas, and God saw that it was good.

¹¹ God said, “Let the earth put forth grass, seed-producing plants, and fruit trees, each yielding its own kind of seed-bearing fruit, on the earth”; and that is how it was. ¹² The earth brought forth grass, plants each yielding its own kind of seed, and trees each producing its own kind of seed-bearing fruit; and God saw that it was good. ¹³ So there was evening, and there was morning, a third day. A day as defined by GOD to Moses.

(A: ii) ¹⁴ God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to divide the day from the night; let them be for signs, seasons, days and years; ¹⁵ and let them be for lights in the dome of the sky to give light to the earth”; and that is how it was. ¹⁶ God made the two great lights — the larger light to rule the day and the smaller light to rule the night — and the stars. ¹⁷ God put them in the dome of the sky to give light to the earth, ¹⁸ to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. ¹⁹ So there was evening, and there was morning, a fourth day.  A day as defined by GOD to Moses.

²⁰ God said, “Let the water swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open dome of the sky.” ²¹ God created the great sea creatures and every living thing that creeps, so that the water swarmed with all kinds of them, and there was every kind of winged bird; and God saw that it was good. ²² Then God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful, multiply and fill the water of the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” ²³ So there was evening, and there was morning, a fifth day. A day as defined by GOD to Moses. 

(A: iii) ²⁴ God said, “Let the earth bring forth each kind of living creature — each kind of livestock, crawling animal and wild beast”; and that is how it was. ²⁵ God made each kind of wild beast, each kind of livestock and every kind of animal that crawls along the ground; and God saw that it was good.

²⁶ Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, in the likeness of ourselves; and let them rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the animals, and over all the earth, and over every crawling creature that crawls on the earth.”

²⁷ So God created humankind in his own image;
in the image of God he created him:
male and female he created them.

²⁸ God blessed them: God said to them, “Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air and every living creature that crawls on the earth.” ²⁹ Then God said, “Here! Throughout the whole earth I am giving you as food every seed-bearing plant and every tree with seed-bearing fruit. ³⁰ And to every wild animal, bird in the air and creature crawling on the earth, in which there is a living soul, I am giving as food every kind of green plant.” And that is how it was. ³¹ God saw everything that he had made, and indeed it was very good. So there was evening, and there was morning, a sixth day.  A day as defined by GOD to Moses.

[LittleNipper]

RevTestament wrote: No. I believe that is hyperbole.  You do not. (Genesis is a book of LAW and HISTORIC FACTS.  Prophecy is often revealed in figurative/illustrative terms) 

Genesis 6:13-21 (Complete Jewish Bible)

¹³ God said to Noach, “The end of all living beings has come before me, for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with the earth. ¹⁴ Make yourself an ark of gofer-wood; you are to make the ark with rooms and cover it with pitch both outside and inside. ¹⁵ Here is how you are to build it: the length of the ark is to be 450 feet, its width seventy-five feet and its height forty-five feet. ¹⁶ You are to make an opening for daylight in the ark eighteen inches below its roof. Put a door in its side; and build it with lower, second and third decks.

¹⁷ “Then I myself will bring the flood of water over the earth to destroy from under heaven every living thing that breathes; everything on earth will be destroyed. ¹⁸ But I will establish my covenant with you; you will come into the ark, you, your sons, your wife and your sons’ wives with you.

¹⁹ “From everything living, from each kind of living being, you are to bring two into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they are to be male and female. ²⁰ Of each kind of bird, each kind of livestock, and each kind of animal creeping on the ground, two are to come to you, so that they can be kept alive. ²¹ Also take from all the kinds of food that are eaten, and collect it for yourself; it is to be food for you and for them.” ²² This is what Noach did; he did all that God ordered him to do.

 

Daniel 8:1-27 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

1After that first vision, it was in the third year of the reign of King Belshatzar that another vision appeared to me, Dani’el. ² I looked into the vision; and as I looked, I found myself in Shushan the capital, in the province of ‘Eilam. I looked into the vision, and I was by the Ulai canal. ³ I looked up; and as I watched, there in front of the stream stood a ram with two horns. The horns were long, but one was longer than the other, and the longer one came up later [than the other]. ⁴ I saw the ram pushing to the west, north and south; and no animals could stand up against it; nor was there anyone that could rescue from its power. So it did as it pleased and became very strong.

⁵ I was beginning to understand, when a male goat came from the west, passing over the whole earth without touching the ground. The goat had a prominent horn between its eyes. ⁶ It approached the ram with the two horns, which I had seen standing in front of the river, and charged it with savage force. ⁷ I watched as it advanced on the ram, filled with rage against it, and struck the ram, breaking its two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against it. It threw the ram to the ground and trampled it down, and there was no one that could rescue it from the goat’s power. ⁸ The male goat then became extremely strong; but when it was strong, the big horn was broken; and in its place arose what appeared to be four horns in the directions of the four winds of heaven. ⁹ Out of one of them came a little horn which grew extremely big in the directions of the south and east, and in the direction of the Glory. ¹⁰ It grew so great that it reached the army of heaven; it hurled some of the army and the stars to the ground and trampled on them. ¹¹ Yes, it even considered itself as great as the prince of the army; the regular burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his sanctuary was thrown down. ¹² Through sin, the army was put in its power, along with the regular burnt offering. It flung truth on the ground as it acted and prospered.

¹³ Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the speaker, “How long will the events of the vision last, this vision concerning the regular offering and the transgression which is so appalling, that allows the sanctuary and the army to be trampled underfoot?” ¹⁴ The first said to me, “Two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings, after which the sanctuary will be restored to its rightful state.”

¹⁵ After I, Dani’el, had seen the vision and was trying to understand it, suddenly there stood in front of me someone who appeared to be a man. ¹⁶ I heard a human voice calling from between the banks of the Ulai, “Gavri’el, make this man understand the vision!” ¹⁷ He came up to where I was standing, and his approach so terrified me that I fell on my face. But he said to me, “Human being! Understand that the vision refers to the time of the end.” ¹⁸ As he was speaking with me, I fell into a deep sleep, with my face toward the ground; but he touched me, set me on my feet, ¹⁹ and said, “I am going to explain to you what will happen at the end of the period of fury, because [the vision] has to do with the time at the end. ²⁰ You saw a ram with two horns which are the kings of Media and Persia. ²¹ The shaggy male goat is the king of Greece, and the prominent horn between its eyes is the first king. ²² As for the horn that broke and the four which rose up in its place, four kingdoms will arise out of this nation, but not with the power the first king had. ²³ In the latter part of their reign, when the evildoers have become as evil as possible, there will arise an arrogant king skilled in intrigue. ²⁴ His power will be great, but not with the power the first king had. He will be amazingly destructive, he will succeed in whatever he does, and he will destroy the mighty and the holy ones. ²⁵ He will succeed through craftiness and deceit, become swelled with pride, and destroy many people just when they feel the most secure. He will even challenge the prince of princes; but, without human intervention, he will be broken. ²⁶ The vision of the evenings and mornings which has been told is true; but you are to keep the vision secret, because it is about days in the distant future.”

²⁷ I, Dani’el, grew weak and was ill for some days. Then I got up and took care of the king’s affairs; but I was appalled at the vision and still couldn’t understand it.

Edited May 16, 2018 by LittleNipper

[RevTestament]

6 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

RevTestament  wrote: Six days as defined by God, yes. You believe in six earth days. I do not. (Seems you are most selective in you opinion of GOD and HIS abilities and the relevance of HIS WORD.)

Genesis 1 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

Parashah 1: B’resheet (In the beginning) 1:1–6:8

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. ² The earth was unformed and void, darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God hovered over the surface of the water. ³ Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. ⁴ God saw that the light was good, and God divided the light from the darkness. ⁵ God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. So there was evening, and there was morning, one day. A day as defined by GOD to Moses.

⁶ God said, “Let there be a dome in the middle of the water; let it divide the water from the water.” ⁷ God made the dome and divided the water under the dome from the water above the dome; that is how it was, ⁸ and God called the dome Sky. So there was evening, and there was morning, a second day.   A day as defined by GOD to Moses.

⁹ God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered together into one place, and let dry land appear,” and that is how it was. ¹⁰ God called the dry land Earth, the gathering together of the water he called Seas, and God saw that it was good.

¹¹ God said, “Let the earth put forth grass, seed-producing plants, and fruit trees, each yielding its own kind of seed-bearing fruit, on the earth”; and that is how it was. ¹² The earth brought forth grass, plants each yielding its own kind of seed, and trees each producing its own kind of seed-bearing fruit; and God saw that it was good. ¹³ So there was evening, and there was morning, a third day. A day as defined by GOD to Moses.

(A: ii) ¹⁴ God said, “Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to divide the day from the night; let them be for signs, seasons, days and years; ¹⁵ and let them be for lights in the dome of the sky to give light to the earth”; and that is how it was. ¹⁶ God made the two great lights — the larger light to rule the day and the smaller light to rule the night — and the stars. ¹⁷ God put them in the dome of the sky to give light to the earth, ¹⁸ to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. ¹⁹ So there was evening, and there was morning, a fourth day.  A day as defined by GOD to Moses.

²⁰ God said, “Let the water swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open dome of the sky.” ²¹ God created the great sea creatures and every living thing that creeps, so that the water swarmed with all kinds of them, and there was every kind of winged bird; and God saw that it was good. ²² Then God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful, multiply and fill the water of the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” ²³ So there was evening, and there was morning, a fifth day. A day as defined by GOD to Moses. 

(A: iii) ²⁴ God said, “Let the earth bring forth each kind of living creature — each kind of livestock, crawling animal and wild beast”; and that is how it was. ²⁵ God made each kind of wild beast, each kind of livestock and every kind of animal that crawls along the ground; and God saw that it was good.

²⁶ Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, in the likeness of ourselves; and let them rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the animals, and over all the earth, and over every crawling creature that crawls on the earth.”

²⁷ So God created humankind in his own image;
in the image of God he created him:
male and female he created them.

²⁸ God blessed them: God said to them, “Be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air and every living creature that crawls on the earth.” ²⁹ Then God said, “Here! Throughout the whole earth I am giving you as food every seed-bearing plant and every tree with seed-bearing fruit. ³⁰ And to every wild animal, bird in the air and creature crawling on the earth, in which there is a living soul, I am giving as food every kind of green plant.” And that is how it was. ³¹ God saw everything that he had made, and indeed it was very good. So there was evening, and there was morning, a sixth day.  A day as defined by GOD to Moses.

You stopped too soon:

Gen 2:

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

Note that last prepositional phrase. Did the Lord God make the earth in one day?

If these days are generations in earth time, your whole thesis just went up in smoke. Elsewhere God uses a day for a year of earth time. If he defines it, you have to live with it. I think He is defining these days as generations of earth time. Generations is the same Hebrew word used elsewhere to describe years or long periods of time. He describes them as days so as to form a basis for our calendar. 

[RevTestament]

6 hours ago, LittleNipper said:

RevTestament wrote: No. I believe that is hyperbole.  You do not. (Genesis is a book of LAW and HISTORIC FACTS.  Prophecy is often revealed in figurative/illustrative terms) 

Genesis 6:13-21 (Complete Jewish Bible)

¹³ God said to Noach, “The end of all living beings has come before me, for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with the earth. ¹⁴ Make yourself an ark of gofer-wood; you are to make the ark with rooms and cover it with pitch both outside and inside. ¹⁵ Here is how you are to build it: the length of the ark is to be 450 feet, its width seventy-five feet and its height forty-five feet. ¹⁶ You are to make an opening for daylight in the ark eighteen inches below its roof. Put a door in its side; and build it with lower, second and third decks.

¹⁷ “Then I myself will bring the flood of water over the earth to destroy from under heaven every living thing that breathes; everything on earth will be destroyed. ¹⁸ But I will establish my covenant with you; you will come into the ark, you, your sons, your wife and your sons’ wives with you.

¹⁹ “From everything living, from each kind of living being, you are to bring two into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they are to be male and female. ²⁰ Of each kind of bird, each kind of livestock, and each kind of animal creeping on the ground, two are to come to you, so that they can be kept alive. ²¹ Also take from all the kinds of food that are eaten, and collect it for yourself; it is to be food for you and for them.” ²² This is what Noach did; he did all that God ordered him to do.

 

Daniel 8:1-27 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

1After that first vision, it was in the third year of the reign of King Belshatzar that another vision appeared to me, Dani’el. ² I looked into the vision; and as I looked, I found myself in Shushan the capital, in the province of ‘Eilam. I looked into the vision, and I was by the Ulai canal. ³ I looked up; and as I watched, there in front of the stream stood a ram with two horns. The horns were long, but one was longer than the other, and the longer one came up later [than the other]. ⁴ I saw the ram pushing to the west, north and south; and no animals could stand up against it; nor was there anyone that could rescue from its power. So it did as it pleased and became very strong.

⁵ I was beginning to understand, when a male goat came from the west, passing over the whole earth without touching the ground. The goat had a prominent horn between its eyes. ⁶ It approached the ram with the two horns, which I had seen standing in front of the river, and charged it with savage force. ⁷ I watched as it advanced on the ram, filled with rage against it, and struck the ram, breaking its two horns. The ram was powerless to stand against it. It threw the ram to the ground and trampled it down, and there was no one that could rescue it from the goat’s power. ⁸ The male goat then became extremely strong; but when it was strong, the big horn was broken; and in its place arose what appeared to be four horns in the directions of the four winds of heaven. ⁹ Out of one of them came a little horn which grew extremely big in the directions of the south and east, and in the direction of the Glory. ¹⁰ It grew so great that it reached the army of heaven; it hurled some of the army and the stars to the ground and trampled on them. ¹¹ Yes, it even considered itself as great as the prince of the army; the regular burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his sanctuary was thrown down. ¹² Through sin, the army was put in its power, along with the regular burnt offering. It flung truth on the ground as it acted and prospered.

¹³ Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the speaker, “How long will the events of the vision last, this vision concerning the regular offering and the transgression which is so appalling, that allows the sanctuary and the army to be trampled underfoot?” ¹⁴ The first said to me, “Two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings, after which the sanctuary will be restored to its rightful state.”

¹⁵ After I, Dani’el, had seen the vision and was trying to understand it, suddenly there stood in front of me someone who appeared to be a man. ¹⁶ I heard a human voice calling from between the banks of the Ulai, “Gavri’el, make this man understand the vision!” ¹⁷ He came up to where I was standing, and his approach so terrified me that I fell on my face. But he said to me, “Human being! Understand that the vision refers to the time of the end.” ¹⁸ As he was speaking with me, I fell into a deep sleep, with my face toward the ground; but he touched me, set me on my feet, ¹⁹ and said, “I am going to explain to you what will happen at the end of the period of fury, because [the vision] has to do with the time at the end. ²⁰ You saw a ram with two horns which are the kings of Media and Persia. ²¹ The shaggy male goat is the king of Greece, and the prominent horn between its eyes is the first king. ²² As for the horn that broke and the four which rose up in its place, four kingdoms will arise out of this nation, but not with the power the first king had. ²³ In the latter part of their reign, when the evildoers have become as evil as possible, there will arise an arrogant king skilled in intrigue. ²⁴ His power will be great, but not with the power the first king had. He will be amazingly destructive, he will succeed in whatever he does, and he will destroy the mighty and the holy ones. ²⁵ He will succeed through craftiness and deceit, become swelled with pride, and destroy many people just when they feel the most secure. He will even challenge the prince of princes; but, without human intervention, he will be broken. ²⁶ The vision of the evenings and mornings which has been told is true; but you are to keep the vision secret, because it is about days in the distant future.”

²⁷ I, Dani’el, grew weak and was ill for some days. Then I got up and took care of the king’s affairs; but I was appalled at the vision and still couldn’t understand it.

See that phrase I highlighted in red? Did Alexander pass over or conquer the whole world? No, he did not. He did not conquer China nor pass over it. It is hyperbole.

You are missing the whole import of the Ark story. It represents the temple in the second seal - like the ark of the covenant did in the third seal. The fact that there was no world-wide flood in Noah's day does not invalidate the Bible. God uses men and stories to teach. The point of the Bible is not to be some precise history book - it is to be a precise revelatory book. Open your eyes, and let it reveal God's secrets to you. Stop trying to pound it into your square hole.