The Doctrine & Covenants, "Our Book".

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

There have been a few threads about the Bible, with questions concerning what is true, or "what was written turely".. Even though much of the Bible has cities and locations that are known to us, there are still many places that are not, despite thousands of years of study. Also, just knowing where a place is (city) does not mean that the miracle or supernatural event listed ever took place as spelled out in the narrative.

Then a thread on the Book of Mormon, which begins with places and cities known to the Bible, as well as events. Then the Book of Mormon, moves to the new world, and there we loose track, where unfamiliar names are given to both people and the.lands. Then once again, we have narratives in unknown cities and wildernesses, the only witnesseses, or persons never located. Of course most of us believe and have faith.  

The Doctrine & Covenants, is a book apart. As a people, and as a Church, we know these people, and all players, if you will. We know the cities, the rivers, the wildernesses through which that passed. We know the States, and the people, and in many cases these families remain active members even today. Real people who kept journals that fill in the gaps.I love this book, but more important I love teaching the Book. I love it because it is here, in "my" America. Even the stories and miracles were and are witnessed by others whom we know where to find their ancestors, many who have written books about those days, and the words of Church Historians.   

As always please include your thoughts and comments politely...

Also, please list your personal favorite chapters and verses  Thank you all 

Edited March 23, 2018 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[longview]

One of the lessons in the D&C is that God sometimes allows us to fail so that we will gain a more powerful conviction of His precepts and commands.

D&C 101:7 They were slow to hearken unto the voice of the Lord their God; therefore, the Lord their God is slow to hearken unto their prayers, to answer them in the day of their trouble.

D&C 1:25 And inasmuch as they erred it might be made known;  26 And inasmuch as they sought wisdom they might be instructed;  27 And inasmuch as they sinned they might be chastened, that they might repent;  28 And inasmuch as they were humble they might be made strong, and blessed from on high, and receive knowledge from time to time.  29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.  30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—  31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;  32 Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;  33 And he that repents not, from him shall be taken even the light which he has received; for my Spirit shall not always strive with man, saith the Lord of Hosts.

D&C 88:36 All kingdoms have a law given;  37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.  38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.  39 All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.

[Josh Khinder]

The D&C seemed to teach the Creeds of the fourth and 5th century till about 1835 and then a dramatic change began including polytheism 

 

https://beggarsbread.org/2017/08/06/the-abomination-of-doctrine-and-covenants-20/

[JLHPROF]

10 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

The D&C seemed to teach the Creeds of the fourth and 5th century till about 1835 and then a dramatic change began including polytheism 

 

https://beggarsbread.org/2017/08/06/the-abomination-of-doctrine-and-covenants-20/

1. The Church in Kirtland operated on limited light.
2. None of the similarities highlighted in your link between D&C 20 and the creed contradict current Church teachings.
3. That link highlights the similarities.  It's the differences that are more important.

[drums12]

10 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

The D&C seemed to teach the Creeds of the fourth and 5th century till about 1835 and then a dramatic change began including polytheism 

 

https://beggarsbread.org/2017/08/06/the-abomination-of-doctrine-and-covenants-20/

Stop.  Just.   Stop.  You Evangelicals don't ever learn.  Mormons don't care about all your anti-Mormon diatribe.  

[CV75]

13 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

There have been a few threads about the Bible, with questions concerning what is true, or "what was written turely".. Even though much of the Bible has cities and locations that are known to us, there are still many places that are not, despite thousands of years of study. Also, just knowing where a place is (city) does not mean that the miracle or supernatural event listed ever took place as spelled out in the narrative.

Then a thread on the Book of Mormon, which begins with places and cities known to the Bible, as well as events. Then the Book of Mormon, moves to the new world, and there we loose track, where unfamiliar names are given to both people and the.lands. Then once again, we have narratives in unknown cities and wildernesses, the only witnesseses, or persons never located. Of course most of us believe and have faith.  

The Doctrine & Covenants, is a book apart. As a people, and as a Church, we know these people, and all players, if you will. We know the cities, the rivers, the wildernesses through which that passed. We know the States, and the people, and in many cases these families remain active members even today. Real people who kept journals that fill in the gaps.I love this book, but more important I love teaching the Book. I love it because it is here, in "my" America. Even the stories and miracles were and are witnessed by others whom we know where to find their ancestors, many who have written books about those days, and the words of Church Historians.   

As always please include your thoughts and comments politely...

Also, please list your personal favorite chapters and verses  Thank you all 

The D&C is "my book" in that, a couple of years after I received my personal witness to join the Church and that she is the true Church, and that the Book of Mormon is true, I read about the burning in the bosom, which is yet another witness of the truth of these things. By way of background, I learned about the Church in a vacuum, and having some materials (pamphlets, manuals, scriptures) to study, I underwent a spiritual conversion. I had to wait several years to actually become a member, and while not permitted to attend Church or visit with the missionaries, I was able to read whatever I could get my hands on. So reading "...if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you..." resonated with me and remained something I could relate to while alone in my faith.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, CV75 said:

The D&C is "my book" in that, a couple of years after I received my personal witness to join the Church and that she is the true Church, and that the Book of Mormon is true, I read about the burning in the bosom, which is yet another witness of the truth of these things. By way of background, I learned about the Church in a vacuum, and having some materials (pamphlets, manuals, scriptures) to study, I underwent a spiritual conversion. I had to wait several years to actually become a member, and while not permitted to attend Church or visit with the missionaries, I was able to read whatever I could get my hands on. So reading "...if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you..." resonated with me and remained something I could relate to while alone in my faith.

While I was growing up, I was attending a one room (for some time, so poor they only had an outhouse, never forget that) Baptist Church. It was the same Church all of my family attended, the same Church my Father was ordained a minister. Across the street there was a Kingdom Hall, of the Jehovah's Witness Church. I used to see to young men riding their bikes, of course in short sleeve white shirts most of the time, since I grew up in Georgia. I once asked my Father who they were, he mistakenly thought they were Jehovah's Witnesses, because they always turned at the road beside them. I found out later they were Mormon Missionaries, had I have known then what I know now, I would have run after them to get a BoM and D&C, so I could get a jump on my studies. I am sure my parents would not have let me attend, not because they were closed minded or bigoted, but we only had one car. Also because back in the 60's the nearest chapel was 40+ miles away. Since our little Church had nothing for children, (no Sunday School) my sister and her boyfriend would come get me and take me to the Church they were attending, for Sunday School. Also every summer, Vacation Bible School. 

During this time, starting at the age of 11, I began taking Bible correspondence courses by mail. My brothers thought I was crazy, going to our Church, and then going to another each week. But, I have always loved being in Church, at my second Church I received my five year pin for never having missed a Suunday in five straight years. But I learned so much, and looking back it was great preparation for the ministry to which I thought I was being called, and which I began in the Baptist pulpit. It was also a great preparation for when I began taking the missionary discussion while in the Army, which aided me in my ability to recognize the truths I was being taught.  

After the Army, my parents would always come to my Ward anytime I was speaking, as I would go home to my childhood Church when my Father did. They were always impressed by our meetings, even though ours were much different and much more quiet. They even helped support my oldest daughter on her mission, sometimes with money, but always in letters of encouragement. One of my best memories of when my parents attended my Ward, was during a Priesthood meeting. Our instructor that day was struggling to find a way to explain the Old Testament, so my Father was trying to help out. Finally our instructor (as all knew my Father well enough) turned to my Dad, and said, Brother Lee, could you finish this lesson by explaining these verses. It took two requests, but my Dad, did so in perfect fashion, to the delight of all in attendance. It has been 12 years now, and I still miss him, both as a Father, and as a resource when teaching Gospel Doctrine. I was truly blessed to have grown up in the home that my parents made for our entire family. It was their love of truth, that led me to seek out truth, wherever I can find it. Thank you CV75, for you story, and reminding me of my own.  

[CV75]

6 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

While I was growing up, I was attending a one room (for some time, so poor they only had an outhouse, never forget that) Baptist Church. It was the same Church all of my family attended, the same Church my Father was ordained a minister. Across the street there was a Kingdom Hall, of the Jehovah's Witness Church. I used to see to young men riding their bikes, of course in short sleeve white shirts most of the time, since I grew up in Georgia. I once asked my Father who they were, he mistakenly thought they were Jehovah's Witnesses, because they always turned at the road beside them. I found out later they were Mormon Missionaries, had I have known then what I know now, I would have run after them to get a BoM and D&C, so I could get a jump on my studies. I am sure my parents would not have let me attend, not because they were closed minded or bigoted, but we only had one car. Also because back in the 60's the nearest chapel was 40+ miles away. Since our little Church had nothing for children, (no Sunday School) my sister and her boyfriend would come get me and take me to the Church they were attending, for Sunday School. Also every summer, Vacation Bible School. 

During this time, starting at the age of 11, I began taking Bible correspondence courses by mail. My brothers thought I was crazy, going to our Church, and then going to another each week. But, I have always loved being in Church, at my second Church I received my five year pin for never having missed a Suunday in five straight years. But I learned so much, and looking back it was great preparation for the ministry to which I thought I was being called, and which I began in the Baptist pulpit. It was also a great preparation for when I began taking the missionary discussion while in the Army, which aided me in my ability to recognize the truths I was being taught.  

After the Army, my parents would always come to my Ward anytime I was speaking, as I would go home to my childhood Church when my Father did. They were always impressed by our meetings, even though ours were much different and much more quiet. They even helped support my oldest daughter on her mission, sometimes with money, but always in letters of encouragement. One of my best memories of when my parents attended my Ward, was during a Priesthood meeting. Our instructor that day was struggling to find a way to explain the Old Testament, so my Father was trying to help out. Finally our instructor (as all knew my Father well enough) turned to my Dad, and said, Brother Lee, could you finish this lesson by explaining these verses. It took two requests, but my Dad, did so in perfect fashion, to the delight of all in attendance. It has been 12 years now, and I still miss him, both as a Father, and as a resource when teaching Gospel Doctrine. I was truly blessed to have grown up in the home that my parents made for our entire family. It was their love of truth, that led me to seek out truth, wherever I can find it. Thank you CV75, for you story, and reminding me of my own.  

There's something in the air today, Papa Lee! I shared on another thread earlier today:

"... I will say that when my father brought home a big folder of large movie stills from the NYC world premiere of "The Greatest Story Ever Told" (I was too young to go to a movie that long; my older siblings went), I was deeply impressed though I thought it was literally a "story" (while nominally Christian, we didn't have much religious education in our home). I had a couple of earlier positive experiences with the little exposure I had to religion, and this added to it.

"Interestingly enough though, I had also seen the Church's "Man's Search for Happiness" at the New York World's Fair (1964), though I did not think or remember this until i recognized it many years later as a missionary (I converted in college) when I came across it among our filmstrips. I also recalled, once seeing it again as an investigator, finding the "Joseph Smith's Testimony" pamphlet while rummaging through my father's coat pockets at that same time (of the world's fair), and feeling somewhat impressed (exactly about what, I didn't know) when reading the back panel. So those are two cases where the Church media contributed to my conversion after all!"

Our mother had taught us to let our conscience be our guide. She taught us the Lord's Prayer. Our father taught us to be honest (FBI!). Both had an aversion to organized religion but made a few attempts anyway (the kids did not like church either! LOL). She died in the 1990s without joining the Church but our father lived until 91, having joined the Church in his 80's some 30 years after me and getting sealed to her and 2 of the 4 children who had joined. Looking back, I see many miracles in my parents' lives that brought them to places where the Restored Gospel could somehow reach their children.

I see great things in your futures!

[theplains]

18 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

The Doctrine & Covenants, is a book apart. As a people, and as a Church, we know these people, and all players, if you will. 

D&C 28: 8-9, 14
  8 - And now, behold, I say unto you that you shall go unto the Lamanites and preach my gospel 
  unto them; and inasmuch as they receive thy teachings thou shalt cause my church to be 
  established among them; and thou shalt have revelations, but write them not by way of 
  commandment.
  
  9 - And now, behold, I say unto you that it is not revealed, and no man knoweth where the city 
  Zion shall be built, but it shall be given hereafter. Behold, I say unto you that it shall 
  be on the borders by the Lamanites.
  
  14 - And thou shalt assist to settle all these things, according to the covenants of the 
  church, before thou shalt take thy journey among the Lamanites.
    
D&C 30: 6
  6 - And be you afflicted in all his afflictions, ever lifting up your heart unto me in prayer 
  and faith, for his and your deliverance; for I have given unto him power to build up my church 
  among the Lamanites
  
D&C 32: 2
  2 - And that which I have appointed unto him is that he shall ago with my servants, Oliver 
  Cowdery and Peter Whitmer, Jun., into the wilderness among the Lamanites.

D&C 54: 8
  8  - And thus you shall take your journey into the regions westward, unto the land of 
  Missouri, unto the borders of the Lamanites.

Who are the Lamanites?

Thanks,
Jim

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, CV75 said:

There's something in the air today, Papa Lee! I shared on another thread earlier today:

"... I will say that when my father brought home a big folder of large movie stills from the NYC world premiere of "The Greatest Story Ever Told" (I was too young to go to a movie that long; my older siblings went), I was deeply impressed though I thought it was literally a "story" (while nominally Christian, we didn't have much religious education in our home). I had a couple of earlier positive experiences with the little exposure I had to religion, and this added to it.

"Interestingly enough though, I had also seen the Church's "Man's Search for Happiness" at the New York World's Fair (1964), though I did not think or remember this until i recognized it many years later as a missionary (I converted in college) when I came across it among our filmstrips. I also recalled, once seeing it again as an investigator, finding the "Joseph Smith's Testimony" pamphlet while rummaging through my father's coat pockets at that same time (of the world's fair), and feeling somewhat impressed (exactly about what, I didn't know) when reading the back panel. So those are two cases where the Church media contributed to my conversion after all!"

Our mother had taught us to let our conscience be our guide. She taught us the Lord's Prayer. Our father taught us to be honest (FBI!). Both had an aversion to organized religion but made a few attempts anyway (the kids did not like church either! LOL). She died in the 1990s without joining the Church but our father lived until 91, having joined the Church in his 80's some 30 years after me and getting sealed to her and 2 of the 4 children who had joined. Looking back, I see many miracles in my parents' lives that brought them to places where the Restored Gospel could somehow reach their children.

I see great things in your futures!

Great story as well. One thing that impressed me was the language in the D&C, and the "preface" of that book, received by revelation. Other than the immediate, a very positive experience wit the Book of Mormon, it was the boldness of language in D&C 1: 37-39, that help galvanize my resolve to continue my studies and the missionary discussions...

37. Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled. 

38. What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or the voice of my servants, it shall be the same.

39. For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever, Amen. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

Who are the Lamanites?

Thanks,
Jim

If this question is directed at me, I do not know. When I said that we "know all the players", I was speaking of those in the early Church, who were a part of building this new Faith. I was also speaking of those who witnessed many of the miracles and revealations that were received. The promises made to Lehi that God would leave a "remnant of his seed", would suggest that there are some remaining with some of the Native American people's. Or it may suggest that these lands were once their borders, I however cannot say. But there are some here who can speak to this issue, and have done so in the past. Either way it sounds like a good topic for a thread, as I fear that some will not see your question in this thread. As it is my desire you get an answer to that question, and I desire to read it.   

[CV75]

2 hours ago, theplains said:

Who are the Lamanites?

From the Title Page, the proselytes in these verses belong to the family of people to whom the Book of Mormon was written ("Written to the Lamanites, who are a remnant of the house of Israel...").

[Avatar4321]

Reading the doctrine and covenants is what lead to my testimony.

It was reading D&C 135 that gave me a testimony of the prophet Joseph Smith

It's reading D&C 121 and 122 that further confirm that testimony. Here Joseph and others were subject to unspeakable conditions in a horrible prison which they were being held unlawfully. And yet they are two of the most beautiful revelations given to man. 

[Josh Khinder]

On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 8:58 AM, JLHPROF said:

1. The Church in Kirtland operated on limited light.
2. None of the similarities highlighted in your link between D&C 20 and the creed contradict current Church teachings.
3. That link highlights the similarities.  It's the differences that are more important.

How could the D&C be limited when it came directly from God ? 

[JLHPROF]

5 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

How could the D&C be limited when it came directly from God ? 

Ask Moses about his law.

[Josh Khinder]

Isn't the 10 Commandments still enforced today ? or have you caste them aside 

[Avatar4321]

23 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

How could the D&C be limited when it came directly from God ? 

No one said the D&C was limited. And how do you define limited anyway?

Edited March 26, 2018 by Avatar4321

[MormonMason]

On ‎03‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 12:44 AM, Josh Khinder said:

How could the D&C be limited when it came directly from God ? 

Part of it was from God, through an intermediary (Joseph Smith).  Parts were written directly by Joseph Smith, and others.  Check the section headings.  Section 20 had a lot of Oliver Cowdery's hands in it.  But this seems helpful:

Quote

Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding.
(Doctrine and Covenants 1:24)

But then there are things revealed elsewhere from before 1835, that were along the lines of things taught later on.  The Joseph Smith Translation talks about God's body, and Enoch having a right to the throne of God.  That was dated from 1830 to 1833.  Doctrine and Covenants 76:58 talks about men becoming gods, and three glories in heaven.  That is dated to 1832.  Doctrine and Covenants 88:107 says that the saints will be made equal with Christ.  That is from 1832, and part in 1833.  Still all before 1835.

[Josh Khinder]

11 hours ago, MormonMason said:

Part of it was from God, through an intermediary (Joseph Smith).  Parts were written directly by Joseph Smith, and others.  Check the section headings.  Section 20 had a lot of Oliver Cowdery's hands in it.  But this seems helpful:

But then there are things revealed elsewhere from before 1835, that were along the lines of things taught later on.  The Joseph Smith Translation talks about God's body, and Enoch having a right to the throne of God.  That was dated from 1830 to 1833.  Doctrine and Covenants 76:58 talks about men becoming gods, and three glories in heaven.  That is dated to 1832.  Doctrine and Covenants 88:107 says that the saints will be made equal with Christ.  That is from 1832, and part in 1833.  Still all before 1835.

Are you saying we can't trust the D&C since it doesn't come directly from GOD ? 

[MormonMason]

11 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

Are you saying we can't trust the D&C since it doesn't come directly from GOD ? 

Um, no, that is not what I said at all.  I said that not all of its contents come directly from God.  In some cases they are doctrinal letters written by Joseph Smith, ala Sections 127 and 128.  In the case of Section 76, it was a vision given, but most of it was set in their own words.  Parts of it are God's direct words.  Others are their words under the inspiration of the Spirit.

But did you catch what I said about doctrines you claim were not revealed until later actually being in the text? Several things you say aren't there actually are there, such as men becoming gods and being made equal to Christ, and so forth.

That does not mean that I said not to trust the book.  Nor would I.  By the way, not everything in the Bible comes directly from God, either.  And that is aside from textual issues and translation issues.

[Josh Khinder]

22 hours ago, MormonMason said:

Um, no, that is not what I said at all.  I said that not all of its contents come directly from God.  In some cases they are doctrinal letters written by Joseph Smith, ala Sections 127 and 128.  In the case of Section 76, it was a vision given, but most of it was set in their own words.  Parts of it are God's direct words.  Others are their words under the inspiration of the Spirit.

But did you catch what I said about doctrines you claim were not revealed until later actually being in the text? Several things you say aren't there actually are there, such as men becoming gods and being made equal to Christ, and so forth.

That does not mean that I said not to trust the book.  Nor would I.  By the way, not everything in the Bible comes directly from God, either.  And that is aside from textual issues and translation issues.

https://newheights.org/talks/

My Pastor just did a talk on this subject 3/25/2018 

[MormonMason]

44 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

https://newheights.org/talks/

My Pastor just did a talk on this subject 3/25/2018 

I don't have time to listen at the moment, but when I do, I'll take a listen.  But if the talk does address translation and transmission issues, I hope for his sake that he cites and quotes accurately.  I don't like calling Pastors on their claims but I'm not afraid to do it.  As to the subject matter of men becoming gods, the meaning of the word "polytheism", Bible mistranslations, other stuff like that, you just might want to consult this book that just this week became available:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1544689152/

Or, not.  I've heard that some people are afraid to read that book.  Don't see why, but whatever.

[Josh Khinder]

4 minutes ago, MormonMason said:

I don't have time to listen at the moment, but when I do, I'll take a listen.  But if the talk does address translation and transmission issues, I hope for his sake that he cites and quotes accurately.  I don't like calling Pastors on their claims but I'm not afraid to do it.  As to the subject matter of men becoming gods, the meaning of the word "polytheism", Bible mistranslations, other stuff like that, you just might want to consult this book that just this week became available:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1544689152/

Or, not.  I've heard that some people are afraid to read that book.  Don't see why, but whatever.

 

My Pastor is lots smarter than James Talmage and should be listened too 

 

James Talmage, a Mormon Apostle, said Psalm 82:6 is not about becoming gods.

 "In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called 'gods.'  To this scripture the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon's Porch.  Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted title 'gods.'  Compare the similar appellation applied to Moses (Exo. 4:16; 7:1).  Jesus Christ possessed divine authorization, not through the word of God transmitted to Him by man, but as an inherent attribute.  The inconsistency of calling human judges 'gods,' and of ascribing blasphemy to the Christ who called Himself the Son of God, would have been apparent to the Jews but for their sin-darkened minds."  (James Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 501). -- Mormons often quote Psalm 82:6 which Jesus quoted in John 10:30-34 to show that we can become gods.  Rather than them believing the truth from a Christian, perhaps they will believe it from their own apostle.

... Psalm 82:1, 6, where ʼelo·himʹ is used of men, human judges in Israel.

They were gods in their capacity as representatives of and spokesmen for Jehovah.

Similarly, Moses was told that he was to serve as “God” to Aaron and to Pharaoh. (see Exodus 4:16)

 

 

[MormonMason]

2 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

 

My Pastor is lots smarter than James Talmage and should be listened too 

 

James Talmage, a Mormon Apostle, said Psalm 82:6 is not about becoming gods.

 "In Psalm 82:6, judges invested by divine appointment are called 'gods.'  To this scripture the Savior referred in His reply to the Jews in Solomon's Porch.  Judges so authorized officiated as the representatives of God and are honored by the exalted title 'gods.'  Compare the similar appellation applied to Moses (Exo. 4:16; 7:1).  Jesus Christ possessed divine authorization, not through the word of God transmitted to Him by man, but as an inherent attribute.  The inconsistency of calling human judges 'gods,' and of ascribing blasphemy to the Christ who called Himself the Son of God, would have been apparent to the Jews but for their sin-darkened minds."  (James Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 501). -- Mormons often quote Psalm 82:6 which Jesus quoted in John 10:30-34 to show that we can become gods.  Rather than them believing the truth from a Christian, perhaps they will believe it from their own apostle.

... Psalm 82:1, 6, where ʼelo·himʹ is used of men, human judges in Israel.

They were gods in their capacity as representatives of and spokesmen for Jehovah.

Similarly, Moses was told that he was to serve as “God” to Aaron and to Pharaoh. (see Exodus 4:16)

 

 

When James Talmage wrote that, he was unfamiliar with a lot of Early Christian Literature and subsequent research into the text in question that followed his death.  Fact is, those Early Christian writers who quoted the text applied it to men becoming gods.  All their writings talking about salvation have that text splattered all over their pages.

Also, read verse 7.  Those gods were not men.  If they were men they could not die "like men."  They would just "die" or "die like other men."  But that isn't what the verse says, is it? But like I said before, the scribes changed up a lot of the Bible.  If you read the above book I linked, you will see some real examples from the manuscripts.  True story.  But the scribes also missed some!

Oh, by the way here is an example.  Following is a translation of Deuteronomy 32:43 (before the scribes messed with it):
 

Quote

 

Rejoice, O ye heavens, with him,

And let all ye gods worship him!

Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people,

And let all ye sons of God take refuge in him!

For he will avenge the blood of his sons,

And he will arise, and will render vengeance to his adversaries;

And them which hate him will he recompense,

And the LORD will cleanse his people’s land.

 

The above appears to be a quote from the book I linked above, but rearranged in sense lines.

Edited March 29, 2018 by MormonMason
Saw something after the fact worth sharing

[Josh Khinder]

3 hours ago, MormonMason said:

When James Talmage wrote that, he was unfamiliar with a lot of Early Christian Literature and subsequent research into the text in question that followed his death.  Fact is, those Early Christian writers who quoted the text applied it to men becoming gods.  All their writings talking about salvation have that text splattered all over their pages.

Also, read verse 7.  Those gods were not men.  If they were men they could not die "like men."  They would just "die" or "die like other men."  But that isn't what the verse says, is it? But like I said before, the scribes changed up a lot of the Bible.  If you read the above book I linked, you will see some real examples from the manuscripts.  True story.  But the scribes also missed some!

Oh, by the way here is an example.  Following is a translation of Deuteronomy 32:43 (before the scribes messed with it):
 

The above appears to be a quote from the book I linked above, but rearranged in sense lines.

Are you saying James Talmage was wrong ? Even though a Mormon Apostle .