The great apostasy

[snowflake]

The LDS claim of the great apostasy. I have been looking into this LDS claim and am not finding evidence to support it.

Churches that claim some form of episcopal apostolic succession, dating back to the apostles or to leaders from the apostolic era, include the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, the Church of the East, the Anglican Communion, and some Lutheran churches .

These churches have documented histories that can trace back their Bishops and church lineages to the original Apostles.

My question is when and where did the so called great apostasy happen?

[ksfisher]

23 minutes ago, snowflake said:

The LDS claim of the great apostasy. I have been looking into this LDS claim and am not finding evidence to support it.

Churches that claim some form of episcopal apostolic succession, dating back to the apostles or to leaders from the apostolic era, include the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, the Church of the East, the Anglican Communion, and some Lutheran churches .

These churches have documented histories that can trace back their Bishops and church lineages to the original Apostles.

My question is when and where did the so called great apostasy happen?

"When individuals or groups of people turn away from the principles of the gospel, they are in a state of apostasy. One example is the Great Apostasy, which occurred after the Savior established His Church. After the deaths of the Savior and His Apostles, men corrupted the principles of the gospel and made unauthorized changes in Church organization and priesthood ordinances. Because of this widespread apostasy, the Lord withdrew the authority of the priesthood from the earth. This apostasy lasted until Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820 and initiated the restoration of the fulness of the gospel."

https://www.lds.org/topics/apostasy?lang=eng

 

[snowflake]

6 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

"When individuals or groups of people turn away from the principles of the gospel, they are in a state of apostasy. One example is the Great Apostasy, which occurred after the Savior established His Church. After the deaths of the Savior and His Apostles, men corrupted the principles of the gospel and made unauthorized changes in Church organization and priesthood ordinances. Because of this widespread apostasy, the Lord withdrew the authority of the priesthood from the earth. This apostasy lasted until Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820 and initiated the restoration of the fulness of the gospel."

https://www.lds.org/topics/apostasy?lang=eng

 

Sure I am familiar with this claim, I am looking for when and where it happened. Joseph can claim whatever he wants but I am looking for evidence for when and where this supposedly took place.

Tens of thousands were baptized during the time of the Apostles and the Apostles were starting churches with Bishops all over the old world, Jerusalem, Rome, Smyrna and in Acts 11:20-21 it tells us the first church was in Antioch.

Who were the men corrupting the principles? I am looking for evidence. The churches I listed in the OP all have lists of their bishops is succession and documents to support their history.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, snowflake said:

The LDS claim of the great apostasy. I have been looking into this LDS claim and am not finding evidence to support it.

Churches that claim some form of episcopal apostolic succession, dating back to the apostles or to leaders from the apostolic era, include the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, the Church of the East, the Anglican Communion, and some Lutheran churches .

These churches have documented histories that can trace back their Bishops and church lineages to the original Apostles.

My question is when and where did the so called great apostasy happen?

When I was 13 years old, I asked our Episcopal minister (I was taking the "confirmation class") about this in the form of "Where are the apostles today?" He said we don't need them, and when I asked why, he explained it is because we have the Bible. I asked about the Catholic Church, and he explained they had no apostles, either*. Well, I suppose you can tell where I ended up!

* Apostolic succession in the Catholic tradition is an orderly process established by Clement of Rome whereby a council of bishops ordains more bishops, justified by the fact that they could trace their appointment to the original apostles. The assumption is that the bishops, who were under authority of the apostles, no longer needed this higher authority (??????!!!!!!!). At least that's my understanding.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, snowflake said:

Sure I am familiar with this claim, I am looking for when and where it happened. Joseph can claim whatever he wants but I am looking for evidence for when and where this supposedly took place.

Apostasy is a process, rarely an event.  That is true whether we are looking at individuals or groups/churches.
Every step taken away from revelatory truth is a move towards apostasy.
In Mormonism the "event" you seek would be when there was insufficient priesthood authority passed on to perform the ordinances and covenants of the gospel.  That probably occurred with the death of the last apostle or shortly thereafter.
I would estimate that when the head of the Church ceased being an Apostle and became a Bishop the priesthood authority became insufficient.

Quote

Tens of thousands were baptized during the time of the Apostles and the Apostles were starting churches with Bishops all over the old world, Jerusalem, Rome, Smyrna and in Acts 11:20-21 it tells us the first church was in Antioch.

Who were the men corrupting the principles? I am looking for evidence. The churches I listed in the OP all have lists of their bishops is succession and documents to support their history.

Exactly.  Bishops and Baptism.  Insufficient authority comparative to the apostles who had authority to seal on earth and in heaven.
And once the ordinance of baptism was altered and the correct ordination of Bishops with it the process was likely complete.

Think of Isaiah 24:5 -The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed theordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

As for who was the first men to corrupt things?  I would imagine the first Bishops that followed their own path instead of the ones laid out by the Apostles.  Even in Paul's day they were already having issues as we know from his epistles.

Edited December 8, 2017 by JLHPROF

[snowflake]

21 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Exactly.  Bishops and Baptism.  Insufficient authority comparative to the apostles who had authority to seal on earth and in heaven.
And once the ordinance of baptism was altered and the correct ordination of Bishops with it the process was likely complete.

Think of Isaiah 24:5 -The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed theordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

As for who was the first men to corrupt things?  I would imagine the first Bishops that followed their own path instead of the ones laid out by the Apostles.  Even in Paul's day they were already having issues as we know from his epistles.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by insufficient authority. The apostles were baptizing and laying on hands of the early church fathers. So the apostles baptized thousands, several thousand in one day. Per Acts 2:

⁴¹ Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

How is this not a transfer of authority from one to another? The LDS do the same thing and claim "authority". 

[JLHPROF]

6 minutes ago, snowflake said:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by insufficient authority. The apostles were baptizing and laying on hands of the early church fathers. So the apostles baptized thousands, several thousand in one day. Per Acts 2:

⁴¹ Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

How is this not a transfer of authority from one to another? The LDS do the same thing and claim "authority". 

No authority is transferred via baptism or laying on of hands for the Holy Ghost.

LDS don't transfer any authority via baptism either, and the laying on of hands (confirmation) has to do with the Holy Ghost, not priesthood ordination.

And example of passing on of authority would be:
Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Another would be:
Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

When no more were chosen, nobody was ordained to be a witness with them and nobody further could take part in their ministry.

Edited December 8, 2017 by JLHPROF

[snowflake]

Just now, snowflake said:

I would imagine the first Bishops that followed their own path instead of the ones laid out by the Apostles.  Even in Paul's day they were already having issues as we know from his epistles.

Ahh, yes........... those evil Bishops whose goal was to make their own paths and not follow Jesus and the Apostles teachings.   Again are there any early church writings that support your claim?  

[snowflake]

3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

No authority is transferred via baptism or laying on of hands for the Holy Ghost.

LDS don't transfer any authority via baptism either, and the laying on of hands (confirmation) has to do with the Holy Ghost, not priesthood ordination.

 

Where in the NT were the Apostles ordaining Priesthood or authority?

[snowflake]

18 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

LDS don't transfer any authority via baptism either, and the laying on of hands (confirmation) has to do with the Holy Ghost, not priesthood ordination.

How do they transfer authority?

 

19 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Why did you forget verse 18? ¹⁸ And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

According to the great apostasy the gates of hell prevailed against Jesus' church for 1800 years? 

23 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

No authority is transferred via baptism or laying on of hands for the Holy Ghost.

Is "authority" and "priesthood" the same thing? 

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, snowflake said:

How do they transfer authority?

Ordination through the laying on of hands.  

"To use authority in the Lord’s Church, a person must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority (A of F 1:5). Although a person may receive authority by ordination, he uses it under the direction of those who hold the particular keys for that authority."

Quote

Why did you forget verse 18?

He didn't.

To suggest that hell prevailed against the church because of the Apostasy is the same thing as suggesting that death prevailed against Christ because of the Crucifixion.  The Restoration is the fulfillment of verse 18, just like the resurrection was the fulfillment of the promise that Christ would conquer death.  

Quote

Is "authority" and "priesthood" the same thing?

Basically.  The priesthood is the authority to act in the name of God.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, snowflake said:

The churches I listed in the OP all have lists of their bishops is succession and documents to support their history.

All you need to do is identify those new bishops who were not ordained by the original apostles.

[CV75]

38 minutes ago, snowflake said:

Where in the NT were the Apostles ordaining Priesthood or authority?

Acts 14:23, Titus 1:5,.

But the notion of apostolic succession through the appointment of bishops depends on Clement's understanding of how things worked: "Through countryside and city [the apostles] preached, and they appointed their earliest converts, testing them by the Spirit, to be the bishops and deacons of future believers. Nor was this a novelty, for bishops and deacons had been written about a long time earlier. . . . Our apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry" (Letter to the Corinthians 42:4–5, 44:1–3 [A.D. 80]). 

 

[JLHPROF]

4 minutes ago, snowflake said:

How do they transfer authority?

With an entirely different laying on of hands ceremony.
In Mormonism there are several ceremonies, all different, and all Biblical.

Ordination (authority/priesthood)
Numbers 27:22 And Moses did as the Lord commanded him: and he took Joshua, and set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation:
23 And he laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge, as the Lord commanded by the hand of Moses.

Acts 1:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

Acts 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
5 ¶ And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and theychose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

Confirmation (Holy Ghost)
Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Hebrews 1:6 Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.
I Timothy 4:14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of thepresbytery.

Blessings (Healing and others)

Mark 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
Acts 28:8 And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.

Quote

Why did you forget verse 18?  And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

According to the great apostasy the gates of hell prevailed against Jesus' church for 1800 years? 

Is "authority" and "priesthood" the same thing? 

I didn't forget verse 18.  It had nothing to do with Peter receiving priesthood authority.  It did have to do with the founding of a Church, but it is the rock and not the Church that could not be prevailed against.
And authority and priesthood are sometimes used interchangeably but are obviously not always the same.

[snowflake]

30 minutes ago, bluebell said:

He didn't.

To suggest that hell prevailed against the church because of the Apostasy is the same thing as suggesting that death prevailed against Christ because of the Crucifixion.  The Restoration is the fulfillment of verse 18, just like the resurrection was the fulfillment of the promise that Christ would conquer death.  

So Christ created his church to last around 60 years, then canned the whole thing for 1800 years......till Joseph came along.......nonsense.

[JLHPROF]

11 minutes ago, snowflake said:

So Christ created his church to last around 60 years, then canned the whole thing for 1800 years......till Joseph came along.......nonsense.

Christ's Church didn't last around 60 years.
Christ's Church organization on earth lasted 60 years before mortal men corrupted the gospel.

Christ's Church has always existed and always will, and the devil cannot remove it.

Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Don't confuse the earthly organizations called Church historically with the eternal Church of Christ.  Moses, Abraham, Noah - no earthly Churches but definitely members of Christ's Church.

[snowflake]

28 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Ordination (authority/priesthood)
Numbers 27:22 And Moses did as the Lord commanded him: and he took Joshua, and set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation:
23 And he laid his hands upon him, and gave him a charge, as the Lord commanded by the hand of Moses.

Really.....this is not the priesthood ordination, try Leviticus 8, I'm not sure the restored LDS church does it this way though: And Moses brought Aaron and his sons, and washed them with water.

⁷ And he put upon him the coat, and girded him with the girdle, and clothed him with the robe, and put the ephod upon him, and he girded him with the curious girdle of the ephod, and bound it unto him therewith.

⁸ And he put the breastplate upon him: also he put in the breastplate the Urim and the Thummim.

⁹ And he put the mitre upon his head; also upon the mitre, even upon his forefront, did he put the golden plate, the holy crown; as the Lord commanded Moses.

¹⁰ And Moses took the anointing oil, and anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and sanctified them.

¹¹ And he sprinkled thereof upon the altar seven times, and anointed the altar and all his vessels, both the laver and his foot, to sanctify them.

¹² And he poured of the anointing oil upon Aaron's head, and anointed him, to sanctify him.

¹³ And Moses brought Aaron's sons, and put coats upon them, and girded them with girdles, and put bonnets upon them; as the Lord commanded Moses.

¹⁴ And he brought the bullock for the sin offering: and Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the head of the bullock for the sin offering.

¹⁵ And he slew it; and Moses took the blood, and put it upon the horns of the altar round about with his finger, and purified the altar, and poured the blood at the bottom of the altar, and sanctified it, to make reconciliation upon it.

¹⁶ And he took all the fat that was upon the inwards, and the caul above the liver, and the two kidneys, and their fat, and Moses burned it upon the altar.

¹⁷ But the bullock, and his hide, his flesh, and his dung, he burnt with fire without the camp; as the Lord commanded Moses.

¹⁸ And he brought the ram for the burnt offering: and Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the head of the ram.

¹⁹ And he killed it; and Moses sprinkled the blood upon the altar round about.

²⁰ And he cut the ram into pieces; and Moses burnt the head, and the pieces, and the fat.

²¹ And he washed the inwards and the legs in water; and Moses burnt the whole ram upon the altar: it was a burnt sacrifice for a sweet savour, and an offering made by fire unto the Lord; as the Lord commanded Moses.

²² And he brought the other ram, the ram of consecration: and Aaron and his sons laid their hands upon the head of the ram.

²³ And he slew it; and Moses took of the blood of it, and put it upon the tip of Aaron's right ear, and upon the thumb of his right hand, and upon the great toe of his right foot.

²⁴ And he brought Aaron's sons, and Moses put of the blood upon the tip of their right ear, and upon the thumbs of their right hands, and upon the great toes of their right feet: and Moses sprinkled the blood upon the altar round about.

²⁵ And he took the fat, and the rump, and all the fat that was upon the inwards, and the caul above the liver, and the two kidneys, and their fat, and the right shoulder:

²⁶ And out of the basket of unleavened bread, that was before the Lord, he took one unleavened cake, and a cake of oiled bread, and one wafer, and put them on the fat, and upon the right shoulder:

²⁷ And he put all upon Aaron's hands, and upon his sons' hands, and waved them for a wave offering before the Lord.

²⁸ And Moses took them from off their hands, and burnt them on the altar upon the burnt offering: they were consecrations for a sweet savour: it is an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

²⁹ And Moses took the breast, and waved it for a wave offering before the Lord: for of the ram of consecration it was Moses' part; as the Lord commanded Moses.

³⁰ And Moses took of the anointing oil, and of the blood which was upon the altar, and sprinkled it upon Aaron, and upon his garments, and upon his sons, and upon his sons' garments with him; and sanctified Aaron, and his garments, and his sons, and his sons' garments with him.

³¹ And Moses said unto Aaron and to his sons, Boil the flesh at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation: and there eat it with the bread that is in the basket of consecrations, as I commanded, saying, Aaron and his sons shall eat it.

³² And that which remaineth of the flesh and of the bread shall ye burn with fire.

³³ And ye shall not go out of the door of the tabernacle of the congregation in seven days, until the days of your consecration be at an end: for seven days shall he consecrate you.

[snowflake]

3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Christ's Church organization on earth lasted 60 years before mortal men corrupted the gospel.

Again you can claim this all you want. The early church fathers Clement of Rome, Mathetes, Polycarp, Ignatius, Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, were all adamant defenders of the early Church, most of them died as martyrs.

Here is a site with some of their letters, please notice how they defend the Apostles and Christ.

http://churchhistory101.com/century2-p2.php

[CV75]

33 minutes ago, snowflake said:

Again you can claim this all you want. The early church fathers Clement of Rome, Mathetes, Polycarp, Ignatius, Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, were all adamant defenders of the early Church, most of them died as martyrs.

Here is a site with some of their letters, please notice how they defend the Apostles and Christ.

http://churchhistory101.com/century2-p2.php

I suggest you show non-interpreted sources from the official Catholic Church website.

[JLHPROF]

44 minutes ago, snowflake said:

Again you can claim this all you want. The early church fathers Clement of Rome, Mathetes, Polycarp, Ignatius, Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, were all adamant defenders of the early Church, most of them died as martyrs.

Here is a site with some of their letters, please notice how they defend the Apostles and Christ.

http://churchhistory101.com/century2-p2.php

I notice the occasional false doctrine already creeping in in those links.
Didn't take very long.

• Although this sermon contains some of the canonical sayings of Jesus, there are also some gnostic-like sayings, "For the Lord Himself, being asked by a certain person when his kingdom would come, said, 'When the two shall be one, and the outside as the inside, and the male with the female, neither male or female'." (2 Clem 12:2) This saying is very similar to Gospel of Thomas 22.
  (We all know what Paul thought of gnosticism).

You probably found this interesting:

• Although he also quotes from Paul's letter to the Romans, his view of faith is more in line with James, "being justified by our works, and not our words." (1 Clement 30.3) 

Actually I googled the full text of I Clement.  First time I've read it.  He'd have made a great Mormon.
Preaching salvation through repentance, congratulating those who held true to their ordinances etc.

It's kind of ironic when a protestant comes to a Mormon board and denies the apostasy.  That's sort of why they broke away from Catholicism in the first place.  I can see why a Catholic would have issues with the doctrine of a great apostasy, but Protestants should be in agreement or else they'd still be Catholic.
The only difference between a protestant and a Mormon is WHEN they think the apostasy was reached and how they think the return to original Christianity was to be achieved.
 

 

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, snowflake said:

So Christ created his church to last around 60 years, then canned the whole thing for 1800 years......till Joseph came along.......nonsense.

Well yes I agree, that sentence above is nonsense.

[hope_for_things]

8 hours ago, snowflake said:

The LDS claim of the great apostasy. I have been looking into this LDS claim and am not finding evidence to support it.

Churches that claim some form of episcopal apostolic succession, dating back to the apostles or to leaders from the apostolic era, include the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, the Church of the East, the Anglican Communion, and some Lutheran churches .

These churches have documented histories that can trace back their Bishops and church lineages to the original Apostles.

My question is when and where did the so called great apostasy happen?

I highly recommend this book, Standing Apart, it’s a collection of essays by Mormon scholars and from Oxford press from 2014, it’s excellent and is specifically addressing the apostasy narrative.  You can even get it for 50% off right now at the link below.  

https://global.oup.com/academic/search?q=Standing+apart&cc=us&lang=en

Also if you want a primer on the book here is a nice podcast interview with a couple of the authors, is an interesting discussion.  

http://www.mormonmatters.org/podcast-item/251-252-mormonisms-apostasy-narrative/

Edited December 9, 2017 by hope_for_things

[boblloyd91]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I notice the occasional false doctrine already creeping in in those links.
Didn't take very long.

• Although this sermon contains some of the canonical sayings of Jesus, there are also some gnostic-like sayings, "For the Lord Himself, being asked by a certain person when his kingdom would come, said, 'When the two shall be one, and the outside as the inside, and the male with the female, neither male or female'." (2 Clem 12:2) This saying is very similar to Gospel of Thomas 22.
  (We all know what Paul thought of gnosticism).

You probably found this interesting:

• Although he also quotes from Paul's letter to the Romans, his view of faith is more in line with James, "being justified by our works, and not our words." (1 Clement 30.3) 

Actually I googled the full text of I Clement.  First time I've read it.  He'd have made a great Mormon.
Preaching salvation through repentance, congratulating those who held true to their ordinances etc.

It's kind of ironic when a protestant comes to a Mormon board and denies the apostasy.  That's sort of why they broke away from Catholicism in the first place.  I can see why a Catholic would have issues with the doctrine of a great apostasy, but Protestants should be in agreement or else they'd still be Catholic.
The only difference between a protestant and a Mormon is WHEN they think the apostasy was reached and how they think the return to original Christianity was to be achieved.
 

 

Very good point, I never understood why Protestants such as Snowflake act all offended when we talk about an apostasy when Evangelicals accuse Orthodoxy and Catholicism of being false faiths even though they have been around much longer than Evangelicals have. Furthermore the pillars of their faith (Sola Scriptua and Sola Fide) were developed by Martin Luther and John Calvin. Snowflake can put us down by saying how dumb we are for believing in Joseph Smith and an apostasy but really many Protestants also believe the church went off the rails after the New Testament until Martin Luther showed up. Very hypocritical really....

[Jane_Doe]

8 hours ago, snowflake said:

The LDS claim of the great apostasy. I have been looking into this LDS claim and am not finding evidence to support it.

Churches that claim some form of episcopal apostolic succession, dating back to the apostles or to leaders from the apostolic era, include the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Oriental Orthodox Churches, the Church of the East, the Anglican Communion, and some Lutheran churches .

These churches have documented histories that can trace back their Bishops and church lineages to the original Apostles.

My question is when and where did the so called great apostasy happen?

After the death of apostles and before the Nicene Creed.

Now, @snowflake, when do you believe the Great Apostasy happened, as you are neither Catholic, Orthodox, etc?  Or if you believe an great apostasy didn't happen, which Catholic or Orthodox church are you a member of?

[Jane_Doe]

7 hours ago, snowflake said:

Sure I am familiar with this claim, I am looking for when and where it happened. Joseph can claim whatever he wants but I am looking for evidence for when and where this supposedly took place.

But you already believe it took place, else you would be RCC, EO, OO, etc.  But you are not.

4 hours ago, snowflake said:

So Christ created his church to last around 60 years, then canned the whole thing for 1800 years......till Joseph came along.......nonsense.

This argument in nonsensical coming from a Protestant.

4 hours ago, snowflake said:

Really.....this is not the priesthood ordination, 

All churches that claim apostolic succession claim a priesthood via ordination.  If you do not be believe in this, then by your own beliefs the entirety of Christendom went into apostasy very early.

4 hours ago, snowflake said:

Again you can claim this all you want. The early church fathers Clement of Rome, Mathetes, Polycarp, Ignatius, Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, were all adamant defenders of the early Church, most of them died as martyrs.

And they all believed in priesthood via ordination.