Confronting heathens

[poptart]

For those of you who served, curious what it was like when you knocked on the door of someone whos beliefs weren't one of the desert religions.  I still remember having 2 sister missionaries knock on my door, my roommate and I telling them what we believe in (they asked)  Giving them cookies and sending them on their way.  About the only memorable thing was when my roommate jokingly said eat these, he many have put weed in what he made.  Scared the daylights out of them. 
Anyway, they really had nothing to say to us.  I'm a cultural christian but when it comes down to it, my beliefs are heathen to the core.  How would you find common ground with someone like that?  For one we don't have original sin, different afterlife, etc. 

 

[Calm]

We had Chinese atheists/buddhists living next door. My Chinese and their English wasn't good enough to get into nuances of their belief.  The missionaries asked to have them meet with us, lessons were very basic, focusing primarily on teaching Christ and answering questions about bible stories.

[poptart]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

We had Chinese atheists/buddhists living next door. My Chinese and their English wasn't good enough to get into nuances of their belief.  The missionaries asked to have them meet with us, lessons were very basic, focusing primarily on teaching Christ and answering questions about bible stories.

Honestly, the whole idea of original sin didn't jive with me.  Could appreciate the family thing though.  What's involved with the lessons?  is it debate/exchange of ideas?  With me, I bring up Christianity but it's mostly secular/cultural/historical, it's not this "spiritual" sense I think someone like you might have.  That's another thing that just never jived.  You know, I think traditional Christianity back in the day this is the idea.  Fast forward to 9:10.  Why can't church be that epic ;_;

 

 

[Jane_Doe]

41 minutes ago, poptart said:

I'm a cultural christian but when it comes down to it, my beliefs are heathen to the core.  How would you find common ground with someone like that?  For one we don't have original sin, different afterlife, etc. 

 

Love.  

I don't have to agree with you to love you or care about you.  In fact, I do appreciate that other people aren't just clone of me, makes things more interesting.  

BTW: LDS folks don't believe in the Original Sin either.

[poptart]

5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Love.  

I don't have to agree with you to love you or care about you.  In fact, I do appreciate that other people aren't just clone of me, makes things more interesting.  

BTW: LDS folks don't believe in the Original Sin either.

That's relative though, especially nowadays.  They don't?  How does the religion work without the guilt mechanism?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

For those of you who served, curious what it was like when you knocked on the door of someone whos beliefs weren't one of the desert religions.  I still remember having 2 sister missionaries knock on my door, my roommate and I telling them what we believe in (they asked)  Giving them cookies and sending them on their way.  About the only memorable thing was when my roommate jokingly said eat these, he many have put weed in what he made.  Scared the daylights out of them. 
Anyway, they really had nothing to say to us.  I'm a cultural christian but when it comes down to it, my beliefs are heathen to the core.  How would you find common ground with someone like that?  For one we don't have original sin, different afterlife, etc. 

 

I am unsure; are you making a joke about the "weed"? If not, what would allow you are your roommate to do such a thing? These missionaries are taking time out of their own lives to teach the Gospel. They are leaving their homes, families, friends, and for many putting their education on hold. This to serve something greater than themselves, so if you have no desire to listen, thank them and wish them a good day. It only takes a moment to lift someone's day, or to drag them down, making the choice to serve God and their fellow man, all the more difficult. True it is your choice to be kind or crass, only you can make such a decision; which will it be?  

[poptart]

37 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I am unsure; are you making a joke about the "weed"? If not, what would allow you are your roommate to do such a thing? These missionaries are taking time out of their own lives to teach the Gospel. They are leaving their homes, families, friends, and for many putting their education on hold. This to serve something greater than themselves, so if you have no desire to listen, thank them and wish them a good day. It only takes a moment to lift someone's day, or to drag them down, making the choice to serve God and their fellow man, all the more difficult. True it is your choice to be kind or crass, only you can make such a decision; which will it be?  

My old roommate is a vet and has an interesting sense of humor.  Actually, we were as polite as can be, compared to our neibors who would have just slammed the door.  The speech about Jesus and the appeal to emotion was just lost.  Both of us have very similar beliefs and since they asked what we really believed, we told them.  I admire them for the reason you just stated, that type of sacrifice is really admirable especially at that age.  Most people would be out getting drunk, high, partying and what not, know I did at that age.

That was one of those rare times i put the cultural christian stuff aside and spoke my mind, something I don't do with outsiders.  We're born, die then return to our folk.  The Gods are too busy with their own affairs to meddle in every minute detail of ours, we're expected to do our part, they won't do it for us.  It was actually kind of interesting, when they asked about diety they were at a bit of a loss since they had nothing to compare it too.  Ask a baptist about Jesus?  No problem there, someone like us?  Well....

Actually they were asking most of the questions about us, all they mentioned was there was a ward close by and we  could come by anytime.

I have to ask myself, would I make a sacrifice like that for an ungrateful world?  Nope, never.  I', having too much fun watching it burn.  I know that if you serve a mission it gets you places, heard stories of people in Utah being asked where did you serve?  Those who serve tend to be held in higher esteem so white it is a sacrifice, it's also kind of expected isn't it? 

 

[poptart]

1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I am unsure; are you making a joke about the "weed"? If not, what would allow you are your roommate to do such a thing? These missionaries are taking time out of their own lives to teach the Gospel. They are leaving their homes, families, friends, and for many putting their education on hold. This to serve something greater than themselves, so if you have no desire to listen, thank them and wish them a good day. It only takes a moment to lift someone's day, or to drag them down, making the choice to serve God and their fellow man, all the more difficult. True it is your choice to be kind or crass, only you can make such a decision; which will it be?  

My roommate was an interesting guy, 4 years in afghanistan, had PTSD and his wife died a few years ago, still remember looking at the pile of meds they had her on.  Was about as bad as what my father had, except she was 26 when she died. 

[The Nehor]

I generally preferred teaching atheists and agnostics to teaching Christians.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

My roommate was an interesting guy, 4 years in afghanistan, had PTSD and his wife died a few years ago, still remember looking at the pile of meds they had her on.  Was about as bad as what my father had, except she was 26 when she died. 

Thanks for the clarification. 

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, poptart said:

.....................................................

I have to ask myself, would I make a sacrifice like that for an ungrateful world?  Nope, never.  I', having too much fun watching it burn.  I know that if you serve a mission it gets you places, heard stories of people in Utah being asked where did you serve?  Those who serve tend to be held in higher esteem so white it is a sacrifice, it's also kind of expected isn't it? 

Returned missionaries are indeed held in high esteem, but one can be a Hell's Angel motorcycle gang member and end up as a ward bishop (I have one in my ward).  Also, the current LDS President, Thomas S. Monson, never served a mission.  Instead, he served in the U.S. Navy in World War II.  One of his counselors used to be a fighter pilot in the German Luftwaffe

As to sacrificing for an ungrateful world, we take our tack from Jesus Christ himself -- who was crucified for his trouble.  The ultimate nice guy finishing last.  As you know, however, the last shall be the first.

[Exiled]

4 hours ago, poptart said:

For those of you who served, curious what it was like when you knocked on the door of someone whos beliefs weren't one of the desert religions.  I still remember having 2 sister missionaries knock on my door, my roommate and I telling them what we believe in (they asked)  Giving them cookies and sending them on their way.  About the only memorable thing was when my roommate jokingly said eat these, he many have put weed in what he made.  Scared the daylights out of them. 
Anyway, they really had nothing to say to us.  I'm a cultural christian but when it comes down to it, my beliefs are heathen to the core.  How would you find common ground with someone like that?  For one we don't have original sin, different afterlife, etc. 

 

I recently converted to your "heathenism," but don't know where to go on sundays.  Is there a place you go to worship your heathen gods?  Or do you do your own thing?  Is that what heathenism is all about?

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, poptart said:

Honestly, the whole idea of original sin didn't jive with me.  Could appreciate the family thing though.  What's involved with the lessons?  is it debate/exchange of ideas?  With me, I bring up Christianity but it's mostly secular/cultural/historical, it's not this "spiritual" sense I think someone like you might have.  That's another thing that just never jived.  You know, I think traditional Christianity back in the day this is the idea.  Fast forward to 9:10.  Why can't church be that epic ;_;

A better version can be found at 

With a Siegfried and Brunhilde worthy of their names.

[Robert F. Smith]

10 minutes ago, Exiled said:

I recently converted to your "heathenism," but don't know where to go on sundays.  Is there a place you go to worship your heathen gods?  Or do you do your own thing?  Is that what heathenism is all about?

Some people return to the religion of the Druids, or to nature religion -- observing May Day, the Solstices, and the magical world of Merlin.  Have a happy Yuletide, with plenty of mistletoe and Tannenbaume.

[Exiled]

Maybe I will create my own gods?  Robert M. Price says that the religious want to make God and Jesus into their own ventriloquist dummies.  I kind of like that idea and there is certainly enough room in the Bible to make whatever you want God to say.

[Jane_Doe]

8 hours ago, poptart said:

They don't?  How does the religion work without the guilt mechanism?

The LDS faith is a faith about love.  Not about guilt or threatening with burning in Hell.  Rather, we strive to be better out of love of God, our families, and our better selves.  No threats about buying or anything like that.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Jane_Doe

[smac97]

9 hours ago, poptart said:

For those of you who served, curious what it was like when you knocked on the door of someone whos beliefs weren't one of the desert religions. 

I served in Taiwan.  Most folks in that country are Buddhist, Daoist, Atheist, Agnostic, or some weak tea combination thereof.

I have never, in my life, referred to non-Mormons as "heathens."  It carries a rather heavy negative connotation. 

9 hours ago, poptart said:

I still remember having 2 sister missionaries knock on my door, my roommate and I telling them what we believe in (they asked)  Giving them cookies and sending them on their way.  About the only memorable thing was when my roommate jokingly said eat these, he many have put weed in what he made.  Scared the daylights out of them. 
Anyway, they really had nothing to say to us.  I'm a cultural christian but when it comes down to it, my beliefs are heathen to the core. 

Could you clarify what you mean here?

9 hours ago, poptart said:

How would you find common ground with someone like that?  For one we don't have original sin, different afterlife, etc. 

We don't believe in original sin, either.  

Not sure what you mean by "different afterlife."

I'd invite you to meet with the missionaries.  Read the Book of Mormon.  Give it a try.  If not, I would hope we could be friends.

Thanks,

-Smac

[poptart]

6 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

A better version can be found at 

With a Siegfried and Brunhilde worthy of their names.

Lol that's the nibelungenlied for slackers, will awesome tho.  The black and white one still.has something this just lacks, the costume, the music, the theatrics. 

I'l have to get back to this, on my phone and the reply is going to be looooong.

[Robert F. Smith]

54 minutes ago, poptart said:

Lol that's the nibelungenlied for slackers, will awesome tho.  The black and white one still.has something this just lacks, the costume, the music, the theatrics. 

.................................

And Wagner is incomparable.

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Exiled said:

Maybe I will create my own gods?  Robert M. Price says that the religious want to make God and Jesus into their own ventriloquist dummies.  I kind of like that idea and there is certainly enough room in the Bible to make whatever you want God to say.

Do you write it in the margins?

[Rain]

15 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I generally preferred teaching atheists and agnostics to teaching Christians.

I agree, at least at first. Most were willing to listen. To consider that I had something new and they were not concerned that my religion was evil. 

However, once a Christian was listening then they seemed to be more willing to xhange. To ask God what he wanted of them.

[smac97]

14 hours ago, Exiled said:

Maybe I will create my own gods?  Robert M. Price says that the religious want to make God and Jesus into their own ventriloquist dummies.  I kind of like that idea and there is certainly enough room in the Bible to make whatever you want God to say.

I'm trying to take you seriously and treat your posts accordingly.  Stuff like the above makes that efforts . . . difficult.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Gray]

Heathens you say? On my mission we burned their crops and smashed their idols. Tough but fair.

[Exiled]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I'm trying to take you seriously and treat your posts accordingly.  Stuff like the above makes that efforts . . . difficult.

Thanks,

-Smac

That was said tongue in cheek. Is it ok to joke around on this board?

Edited December 4, 2017 by Exiled

[smac97]

21 minutes ago, Exiled said:

That was said tongue in cheek. Is it ok to joke around on this board?

Sure.  But a healthy measure of respect and decorum would be nice.  A "joke" in which you express enjoyment at the notion of turning "God and Jesus into {your} own ventriloquist dummies" seems neither respectful of God nor decorous of our beliefs about Him.

Thanks,

-Smac