katherine the great Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: my wife has worked outside the home for the past nearly a year. She's received tons of negative comments and judgment from ladies in the ward. She also found it laughable when I worked for the Church and the Church wouldn't support birth control as part of it's health care package. I mean in some ways, what you describe as having been settled and handled by women remains a problem in the Church and in Church culture. So I wouldn't be so quick to call that dynamic. I've probably been lucky to live in good wards as well. Do you mind if I ask where you live? (which state?)
HappyJackWagon Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, bluebell said: I'm coming at this from the perspective of 'motivation'. I disagree that the motivation for God removing 1/3 of His children from heaven was to maintain boundaries. Again, i don't think you've provided any support for this assertion. At this point we should probably just agree to disagree. To me, there are some pretty clear boundaries set by both the church and by God. Temple recommends are another basic example of a tool used to maintain boundaries. Some people are permitted to enter, some are not. It is a boundary on participation, therefore there will be people on either side of the boundary line; some enter, some cannot. God creates laws and commandments to establish a standard for who will be permitted to enter the celestial kingdom. Those who don't meet the qualification will not be permitted in. That is maintaining a boundary. I don't know how to express it any better. Sorry. 1
stemelbow Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, katherine the great said: I've probably been lucky to live in good wards as well. Do you mind if I ask where you live? (which state?) Utah - Salt Lake area.
katherine the great Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 27 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Utah - Salt Lake area. Interesting. Utah culture is somewhat unique. It does kind of surprise me though that urbanites would shame your wife for working. City folks have always appeared to be somewhat less traditional than their rural neighbors. I live in Boise and the wards I have been in here are full of working women as well as full time homemakers--no superiority complexes from the stay-at-homes that I've ever seen. I do remember the 70's in California when it was greatly frowned upon for a woman to work until that last child was launched, but the trend I've seen is that it is much more mainstream now (as long as the children are being well cared for.) I've also noticed a marked decrease in the rhetoric aimed at young people regarding family size. It hasn't disappeared, but not nearly the daily bombardment I remember from my BYU days. I always felt like it was really no one else's business since I'm the one who has to give birth to, raise and pay for them!
bluebell Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 47 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: To me, there are some pretty clear boundaries set by both the church and by God. Temple recommends are another basic example of a tool used to maintain boundaries. Some people are permitted to enter, some are not. It is a boundary on participation, therefore there will be people on either side of the boundary line; some enter, some cannot. God creates laws and commandments to establish a standard for who will be permitted to enter the celestial kingdom. Those who don't meet the qualification will not be permitted in. That is maintaining a boundary. I don't know how to express it any better. Sorry. Like I said, we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
bluebell Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, katherine the great said: Interesting. Utah culture is somewhat unique. It does kind of surprise me though that urbanites would shame your wife for working. City folks have always appeared to be somewhat less traditional than their rural neighbors. I live in Boise and the wards I have been in here are full of working women as well as full time homemakers--no superiority complexes from the stay-at-homes that I've ever seen. I do remember the 70's in California when it was greatly frowned upon for a woman to work until that last child was launched, but the trend I've seen is that it is much more mainstream now (as long as the children are being well cared for.) I've also noticed a marked decrease in the rhetoric aimed at young people regarding family size. It hasn't disappeared, but not nearly the daily bombardment I remember from my BYU days. I always felt like it was really no one else's business since I'm the one who has to give birth to, raise and pay for them! It does seem to depend on the ward i think. I live in Utah just north of SLC and most of the women in my solidly middle class ward work outside of the home. It's unique for a mother not to work at least some. I've never seen any judgement on it, probably because it's very typical. 3
Calm Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 1 hour ago, bluebell said: It does seem to depend on the ward i think..... I've never seen any judgement on it..... Same here in Utah County, smaller town, though a number of stay home mothers as well as part time workers.
mfbukowski Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 On 7/6/2017 at 5:29 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said: France is usually the blame for all ill's is it not...I thought everyone knew this. My saintly father in law loved everyone as did not harbor racial prejudices, which in his generation was highly unusual Sort of He only was prejudiced against the French. Of course he was an English Canadian....... 1
mikegriffith1 Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 President Smith seems to have been talking about styles, not about how much skin was visible. Today, the situation is worse. [removed] comments about women's appearance and body parts are not allowed
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