The Nehor Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 10 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said: Okay, so why can't gov buildings also have the humanist ten commandments? https://thehumanist.com/commentary/the-humanist-ten-commandment It was just a monument, no big deal, especially if it really has "no impact on actual law". Jesus says, Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. By the way, Why did Jesus cleanse the temple? What version of the ten commandments are you talking about? There are three versions of the Ten Commandments in the Bible. The version in Exodus 34:12-27 is radically different, and is the only one which the Bible refers to as "the Ten Commandments". Hinduism is the oldest living religion in the world, perhaps our morality comes from Hinduism. Or perhaps it comes from Chango. The Humanist Ten Commandments can have a monument when they have been around for at least a few centuries and can be shown to have influenced the law in this nation in a substantive and historical way. Hinduism's precepts have had little influence on the development of western and American justice and law. A tasteful monument to the Code of Hammurabi or the Magna Carta would be more appropriate then that inane attempt at false equivalence. 3
The Nehor Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 11 hours ago, Darren10 said: Or, don't place your faith in the arm of man. Of course they'll disappoint you. Calling everyone an indiot stresses me out. I do not know how you do it. I console myself with my trophy collection.
thesometimesaint Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 20 hours ago, Darren10 said: How deep is the paranoia against the display of the Ten Commandments on government property? Just depends on which God the Government wants you to worship.
thesometimesaint Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: The Humanist Ten Commandments can have a monument when they have been around for at least a few centuries and can be shown to have influenced the law in this nation in a substantive and historical way. Hinduism's precepts have had little influence on the development of western and American justice and law. A tasteful monument to the Code of Hammurabi or the Magna Carta would be more appropriate then that inane attempt at false equivalence. Only two of the 10 Commandments have any bearing on our government. Those two concern murder of its citizens and stealing from its citizens, somethings which every country opposes. 2
pogi Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 32 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Just depends on which God the Government wants you to worship. Satan's Temple has been trying to get this statue on the grounds of the Oklahoma Capitol: http://theweek.com/speedreads/454057/oklahoma-never-allow-monument-satan-capitol-grounds
thesometimesaint Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 Works for me. If we allow one religion a favored place in our government why not another? 1
MormonVideoGame Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Only two of the 10 Commandments have any bearing on our government. Those two concern murder of its citizens and stealing from its citizens, somethings which every country opposes. Exactly! 7 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Works for me. If we allow one religion a favored place in our government why not another? because the US is a Christian majority nation. 19 hours ago, Darren10 said: God is a title, not a proper name. Speak theology to a Hindu and he or she will be perfectly comfortable talking about hisvor her pluralitiy of gods as "god". Atheist too are 100% free to think of "God" as he or she sees fit. Why can't we change it to "the Force"? or "in the Force we trust"? God is not a Title, see the definiton of God https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/god Edited June 30, 2017 by MormonVideoGame
thesometimesaint Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 Catholics and then Baptists are the largest religions in the US. Do they get to decide your religion isn't Christian enough for you to have a say in the government? 1
california boy Posted June 30, 2017 Posted June 30, 2017 On 6/29/2017 at 9:19 AM, Darren10 said: God is a title, not a proper name. Speak theology to a Hindu and he or she will be perfectly comfortable talking about hisvor her pluralitiy of gods as "god". Atheist too are 100% free to think of "God" as he or she sees fit. Should our government favor Judaism and Christianity! Absolutley or our government would be much different than it is. Whoa. Are you saying that the 10 commandments does not refer to Jehovah when it talks about God??? "Thou shall have no other Gods before me" means exactly what according to your definition of God being applied to all Gods?
Darren10 Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 On 6/29/2017 at 1:31 PM, thesometimesaint said: Just depends on which God the Government wants you to worship. The government doesn't want you to worship any God but as a society should we not promoted Judea-Christian values mores?
Darren10 Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 8 hours ago, california boy said: Whoa. Are you saying that the 10 commandments does not refer to Jehovah when it talks about God??? "Thou shall have no other Gods before me" means exactly what according to your definition of God being applied to all Gods? When do the Ten Commandments declare YHWH? Even when it says 'no other Gods' it is saying elohim, not YHWH, and is clearly titular, not as a proper name. What's the contention?
Darren10 Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) 22 hours ago, MormonVideoGame said: Exactly! because the US is a Christian majority nation. Why can't we change it to "the Force"? or "in the Force we trust"? God is not a Title, see the definiton of God https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/god Because The Force is explicitly science fiction, not the Ten Commandments. If, however, you or any ither group or individuals interpret "God" as The Force, have at it. Do you find it as mere coincidence that it is a Judeo-Christian society which believes in your individual freedom to worship? Also, p,ease plan on seeing Episdoe VIII his December. It should be very good. Edited July 1, 2017 by Darren10
rodheadlee Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 On 6/28/2017 at 10:14 AM, USU78 said: So ... he holds his phone in one hand, running the camera, while driving with his other hand into the 10 Commandments Monument in Arkansas. Laudable freedom fighter or something else? Was alcohol involved?
MormonVideoGame Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 54 minutes ago, Darren10 said: When do the Ten Commandments declare YHWH? Which version are you talking about? 1 hour ago, Darren10 said: Do you find it as mere coincidence that it is a Judeo-Christian society which believes in your individual freedom to worship? Many societies (including Atheists) believe in your individual freedom to worship. 57 minutes ago, Darren10 said: as a society should we not promoted Judea-Christian values mores? What do you mean by Judea-Christian values? I think some people disagree with you
hagoth7 Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) On 6/28/2017 at 11:14 AM, USU78 said: So ... he holds his phone in one hand, running the camera, while driving with his other hand into the 10 Commandments.... If someone decides to publicly break the commandments, that's a novel way to do it. On 6/28/2017 at 11:14 AM, USU78 said: Laudable freedom fighter or something else? Something else...unless the Nehor was right about the mind control thing.. ;0) Edited July 1, 2017 by hagoth7 1
The Nehor Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) On 6/29/2017 at 11:38 AM, thesometimesaint said: Only two of the 10 Commandments have any bearing on our government. Those two concern murder of its citizens and stealing from its citizens, somethings which every country opposes. Every nation professes they oppose murder and theft but not all follow through. The Ten Commandments are more representative of the entire Torah which does have extensive laws covering the relations of men, government, God, and the setting of standards in the conduct of each. This kind of contract was an important achievement that put obligations as well as rights on leaders. Other historical codes have contributed as well but the Jude's-Christian version had the largest impact on western law. On 6/29/2017 at 1:06 PM, thesometimesaint said: Works for me. If we allow one religion a favored place in our government why not another? Because satanic religion and their "holy texts" have little historical value in the development of western civilization. Edited July 1, 2017 by The Nehor 1
california boy Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Darren10 said: When do the Ten Commandments declare YHWH? Even when it says 'no other Gods' it is saying elohim, not YHWH, and is clearly titular, not as a proper name. What's the contention? Ok then. I will leave you with your belief that the 10 Commandments had nothing to do with obeying Jehovah. And that worshiping any God was the intent of the 10 Commandments. You might want to spend a little more time studying the Old Testament however. There was a whole scene after Moses came down this hill because the Israelites were worshiping another god. It is a great story and involves drinking gold as a punishment and taking away the priesthood from all but one tribe. Probably a misunderstanding of what God meant when He said. "Thou shall have no other gods before me" He really meant it doesn't matter which God you worship. Scriptures can become so unclear sometimes can't they.
california boy Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Every nation professes they oppose murder and theft but not all follow through. The Ten Commandments are more representative of the entire Torah which does have extensive laws covering the relations of men, government, God, and the setting of standards in the conduct of each. This kind of contract was an important achievement that put obligations as well as rights on leaders. Other historical codes have contributed as well but the Jude's-Christian version had the largest impact on western law. Because satanic religion and their "holy texts" has little historical value in the development of western civilization. I think the entire Greek and Roman empires never actually existed. Only the Jews were forming governments and telling people that slavery was ok. I am beginning to like this view that without christianity, murder and theft would be rampant in our society. We should make a monument to that religion. Oh wait, we already did. Never mind.
The Nehor Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 1 minute ago, california boy said: I think the entire Greek and Roman empires never actually existed. Only the Jews were forming governments and telling people that slavery was ok. I am beginning to like this view that without christianity, murder and theft would be rampant in our society. We should make a monument to that religion. Oh wait, we already did. Never mind. I did not claim that other civilizations did not contribute and, in some cases, did a better job and had better and fairer laws then the Torah. The difference is how they are treated. If someone made a monument to Athenian democracy it would be considered inoffensive but honoring the Torah for its contribution is seen as an endorsement. I do not think many want to bring back Athenian democracy or the Torah as the law of the land, even Greeks and Jews and Christians. The controversy over these monuments is a pointless game cowards play. Atheists who want to mar religion but are unwilling to come out against it directly and religious zealots for whom minor threats against monuments of almost no religious value become a crusade when a true follower of God and/or Christ would find more pressing and virtuous causes to fight for. 1
Darren10 Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, california boy said: Ok then. I will leave you with your belief that the 10 Commandments had nothing to do with obeying Jehovah. And that worshiping any God was the intent of the 10 Commandments. You might want to spend a little more time studying the Old Testament however. There was a whole scene after Moses came down this hill because the Israelites were worshiping another god. It is a great story and involves drinking gold as a punishment and taking away the priesthood from all but one tribe. Probably a misunderstanding of what God meant when He said. "Thou shall have no other gods before me" He really meant it doesn't matter which God you worship. Scriptures can become so unclear sometimes can't they. You twisted my words. The Ten Commandments has *EVERYTHING* to do woth obeying and worshipping Jehovah. They declare He is the one true God. But they do not declare Him by name therefore displaying only Jehovah's title of "God" does not "endorse a religion". I would oppose displays which said "Jehovah" and even "Elohim" if such were used as proper names. Same goes for Buddah, or Deva, or CaliforniaBoy. "You might want to spend a little more time studying the Old Testament however." Agsin, you condescend me. You very frequently take the approach that I am ignorant, stupid, uneducated. What gives? Edited July 1, 2017 by Darren10
MiserereNobis Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 9 hours ago, The Nehor said: I do not think many want to bring back Athenian democracy or the Torah as the law of the land, even Greeks and Jews and Christians. Can we bring back the Greek and Roman gods? "The World Is Too Much With Us" by William Wordsworth The world is too much with us; late and soon, Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers: Little we see in Nature that is ours; We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon! The Sea that bares her bosom to the moon; The winds that will be howling at all hours, And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers; For this, for everything, we are out of tune; It moves us not.--Great God! I'd rather be A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn; So might I, standing on this pleasant lea, Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn; Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea; Or hear old Triton blow his wreathèd horn.
The Nehor Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 50 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: Can we bring back the Greek and Roman gods? "The World Is Too Much With Us" by William Wordsworth The world is too much with us; late and soon, Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers: Little we see in Nature that is ours; We have given our hearts away, a sordid boon! The Sea that bares her bosom to the moon; The winds that will be howling at all hours, And are up-gathered now like sleeping flowers; For this, for everything, we are out of tune; It moves us not.--Great God! I'd rather be A Pagan suckled in a creed outworn; So might I, standing on this pleasant lea, Have glimpses that would make me less forlorn; Have sight of Proteus rising from the sea; Or hear old Triton blow his wreathèd horn. Only if I can bring back my ancestral Norse gods. If we are going pagan I want the best pagan gods included.
thesometimesaint Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 17 hours ago, Darren10 said: The government doesn't want you to worship any God but as a society should we not promoted Judea-Christian values mores? Which ones? Like I said of the 10 Commandments only two apply to our government, laws against murder and stealing something common to all governments. 1
california boy Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 6 hours ago, Darren10 said: You twisted my words. The Ten Commandments has *EVERYTHING* to do woth obeying and worshipping Jehovah. They declare He is the one true God. But they do not declare Him by name therefore displaying only Jehovah's title of "God" does not "endorse a religion". I would oppose displays which said "Jehovah" and even "Elohim" if such were used as proper names. Same goes for Buddah, or Deva, or CaliforniaBoy. "You might want to spend a little more time studying the Old Testament however." Agsin, you condescend me. You very frequently take the approach that I am ignorant, stupid, uneducated. What gives? Darren, you were the one arguing that the 10 Commandments was about all gods not me. This is what you said. Quote When do the Ten Commandments declare YHWH? I just have never heard anyone pretend the 10 Commandments are not about Jehovah before just because His name is not attached to the commandments.. It is a new concept for me. I simply stated that you are entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree with it. I just don't think other gods can be substituted in place of Jehovah as the God refered to in the 10 Commandments. For me, the 10 commandments apply and are attributed to only one God. And given how God reacted to the Israelites worshiping Baal, I would just say, in my opinion, I don't think God meant other gods could be substituted for Him just because His name is not on the commandments. I am not condescending to you. I am disagreeing with you.
california boy Posted July 1, 2017 Posted July 1, 2017 15 hours ago, The Nehor said: I did not claim that other civilizations did not contribute and, in some cases, did a better job and had better and fairer laws then the Torah. The difference is how they are treated. If someone made a monument to Athenian democracy it would be considered inoffensive but honoring the Torah for its contribution is seen as an endorsement. I do not think many want to bring back Athenian democracy or the Torah as the law of the land, even Greeks and Jews and Christians. The controversy over these monuments is a pointless game cowards play. Atheists who want to mar religion but are unwilling to come out against it directly and religious zealots for whom minor threats against monuments of almost no religious value become a crusade when a true follower of God and/or Christ would find more pressing and virtuous causes to fight for. But the 10 commandments are not a secular document, it is a religious document of belief. If someone made a statue of a pagan god, and placed it on the steps of a state capitol to celebrate the contribution of Greek ideas to our government, I think there would be a lot of reaction. And I think some christian would be the first to take a hammer to it.
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