Ahab Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: Allow me to clarify then. I'd say the best representation of the stone is the gospel, what the gospel is might be another story though. I meant to agree with JHLprof that the Church often represents the rock in the metaphor as the kingdom of God, which also the Church often represents the kingdom of God as the Church. SO there you go. I don't know or recall any scripture where a stone represents the church or kingdom of God. Can you cite one for me, please.
stemelbow Posted April 12, 2017 Author Posted April 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ahab said: I don't know or recall any scripture where a stone represents the church or kingdom of God. Can you cite one for me, please. I didn't say anything about scripture so I'm not sure why you're asking me for that. But what I had in mind was something akin to this: Quote The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was restored in 1830 after numerous revelations from the divine source; and this is the kingdom, set up by the God of heaven, that would never be destroyed nor superseded, and the stone cut out of the mountain without hands that would become a great mountain and would fill the whole earth. https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/05/the-stone-cut-without-hands?lang=eng This is President Kimball in 1976 as you can see. This is one example of many wherein the stone is called the kingdom (of God I presume) and the Kingdom the Church. Hope this helps whatever it is you're looking for.
The Nehor Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 2 hours ago, stemelbow said: we could be 15% of the world's pop and still be few in the end. 0 our of 100 is not few. It's 0. But 15 out of 100 is few, right? If we hit 0% you can say the prophecy failed and, even better, no one will dispute the point.
The Nehor Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 2 hours ago, stemelbow said: Alright I decided to readdress this. says Nephi: If one Church here represents the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day blah blah....and the other is represented by all those who are not of the LDS Church, then your reading of Nephi might make some sense, although some might suggest we're a fall cry from being upon all the face of the earth. But ok. I'll buy it for argument's sake. Our problem remains though, we have to figure out how to stretch ourselves over the face of the whole earth, when as of recent trends, we are not growing and stretching across the globe. What do we do now? Go forth like the prophesied hunters in Jeremiah and the harvest may be meager but we are saving souls and not trying to wow with impressive stats so we can still rejoice. Rejection also means the gospel is spreading. It means they at least heard it.
The Nehor Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 51 minutes ago, Ahab said: I think there will be a lot of honorable men... Terrestrial glory types... who will be deceived into thinking that Christ isn't Christ when he comes. Some thinking he is just an alien from outer space who is trying to take over their/our planet. All the Telestial types will have been killed or otherwise dismissed from mortality and fear will generally prevail in the minds of many people. The veil will not be lifted then, ya know, so people will still be able to believe pretty much whatever they want to believe. So there will still be many Muslims and Buddhists and all kinds of Christians, etc. much like there are now, and not only members of our Lord's church/kingdom. It says every knee shall bow. Unbowed knees are burned at his coming so your alien invader weirdos will be burned. Sorry.
Ahab Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, The Nehor said: It says every knee shall bow. Unbowed knees are burned at his coming so your alien invader weirdos will be burned. Sorry. At his coming? We'll see how bad those burns will be, I suppose.
stemelbow Posted April 12, 2017 Author Posted April 12, 2017 15 minutes ago, The Nehor said: If we hit 0% you can say the prophecy failed and, even better, no one will dispute the point. I'm just saying, .1% is closer to 0% than 1%. We're stretching to call it few, when it's next to non existent. Think of a pie chart populated to 100. then .1% of the pie looks like the tiniest sliver possible.
stemelbow Posted April 12, 2017 Author Posted April 12, 2017 15 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Go forth like the prophesied hunters in Jeremiah and the harvest may be meager but we are saving souls and not trying to wow with impressive stats so we can still rejoice. Rejection also means the gospel is spreading. It means they at least heard it. Typicaly rejection is not rejection fo the message but rejection of the effort by missionaries to annoy people. I question the saving souls point. I wonder if more LDS will lose exaltation then gain it. the way some fo the messages come out it seems like it's possible. I wonder how many more people who get exalted will have never been LDS compared to those of us who are LDS in this life? We might have to look back then and wonder what we were thinking when it came to saving souls. Perhaps we were doing more harm than good.
JLHPROF Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, The Nehor said: So what country is going to resist Christ when he comes so the Kingdom does not fill the whole Earth? My money is on Portugal and/or Malaysia. Oh you just know it will be the good ol' US of A. A glowing light appears in the eastern sky heading towards the coast of America. First reaction - shoot it down! I anticipate a Samuel the Lamanite situation on a much larger scale. Edited April 12, 2017 by JLHPROF 1
Gray Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Oh you just know it will be the good ol' US of A. A glowing light appears in the eastern sky heading towards the coast of America. First reaction - shoot it down! I anticipate a Samuel the Lamanite situation on a much larger scale. Yup. A barefoot and beareded Palestinian man who is thought by his devoted followers to be the ruler of earth? We'd try to nuke him from orbit. 1
stemelbow Posted April 12, 2017 Author Posted April 12, 2017 Just now, Gray said: Yup. A barefoot and beareded Palestinian man who is thought by his devoted followers to be the ruler of earth? We'd try to nuke him from orbit. Is God going to be as tricky with us as he was the first time Jesus came and lived here? I thought that was a major point in the NT--the people weren't able to recognize Christ. he had to go get himself a following one at a time. Then everyone got pissed and executed him.
Gray Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 1 minute ago, stemelbow said: Is God going to be as tricky with us as he was the first time Jesus came and lived here? I thought that was a major point in the NT--the people weren't able to recognize Christ. he had to go get himself a following one at a time. Then everyone got pissed and executed him. The Romans executed Jesus because they thought he was a trouble maker. It didn't take much. They didn't care about people's personal beliefs, as long is it wasn't a threat to their authority. I guess if Jesus isn't going to be shot out of the sky (or attempts made to that effect), he'd need to project his image around the world so everyone could see what looks like a celestial being approaching, even from a distance.
stemelbow Posted April 12, 2017 Author Posted April 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Gray said: The Romans executed Jesus because they thought he was a trouble maker Well yeah because people got pissed...at least that's how the story goes.
The Nehor Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 36 minutes ago, stemelbow said: I'm just saying, .1% is closer to 0% than 1%. We're stretching to call it few, when it's next to non existent. Think of a pie chart populated to 100. then .1% of the pie looks like the tiniest sliver possible. By that standard neither you and I are nearly non existent and this conversation basically never happened.
Ahab Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, Gray said: The Romans executed Jesus because they thought he was a trouble maker. It didn't take much. They didn't care about people's personal beliefs, as long is it wasn't a threat to their authority. I guess if Jesus isn't going to be shot out of the sky (or attempts made to that effect), he'd need to project his image around the world so everyone could see what looks like a celestial being approaching, even from a distance. Yeah I can imagine "President" Trump's reaction to seeing "one of those people" coming to America. Another "illegal" alien. It ain't gonna be pretty, folks, let me tell ya. 1
The Nehor Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 35 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Typicaly rejection is not rejection fo the message but rejection of the effort by missionaries to annoy people. I question the saving souls point. I wonder if more LDS will lose exaltation then gain it. the way some fo the messages come out it seems like it's possible. I wonder how many more people who get exalted will have never been LDS compared to those of us who are LDS in this life? We might have to look back then and wonder what we were thinking when it came to saving souls. Perhaps we were doing more harm than good. Nope. I have Christ on my side and he smooths over the rough edges I have that would have ruined the plan. By that view of history God made a mistake restoring the gospel which is basically the same thing as saying the gospel is a load of rubbish.
The Nehor Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 20 minutes ago, Gray said: The Romans executed Jesus because they thought he was a trouble maker. It didn't take much. They didn't care about people's personal beliefs, as long is it wasn't a threat to their authority. I guess if Jesus isn't going to be shot out of the sky (or attempts made to that effect), he'd need to project his image around the world so everyone could see what looks like a celestial being approaching, even from a distance. All will see him at his coming.
The Nehor Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ahab said: Yeah I can imagine "President" Trump's reaction to seeing "one of those people" coming to America. Another "illegal" alien. It ain't gonna be pretty, folks, let me tell ya. Trump is a liar and brags about his whoredoms. Pretty much textbook definition of someone bound for hell. I doubt he will still be around to do anything.
stemelbow Posted April 12, 2017 Author Posted April 12, 2017 7 minutes ago, The Nehor said: By that standard neither you and I are nearly non existent and this conversation basically never happened. Well it basically didn't. We're just two anonymous posters on an obscure board that no one cares about.
stemelbow Posted April 12, 2017 Author Posted April 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Nope. I have Christ on my side and he smooths over the rough edges I have that would have ruined the plan. By that view of history God made a mistake restoring the gospel which is basically the same thing as saying the gospel is a load of rubbish. Well if the unidentified man who lived on a remote pacific island 1500 years ago has a chance, then what's the point fo the gospel on this planet to him? If it's so important for individuals to have a fair chance at accepting the gospel while walking around this globe why is it that God made it impossible for most of humanity to ever have a chance at it? 1
Ahab Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Trump is a liar and brags about his whoredoms. Pretty much textbook definition of someone bound for hell. I doubt he will still be around to do anything. Are you imagining all of the bad people just going poof out of existence? Yeah, the bad people will die. I'm not so sure they will go quickly, though. I'm imagining a 3 Nephi kind of thing with a lot going on BEFORE they hear a voice from heaven announcing Jesus is coming.
Gray Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 45 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Well yeah because people got pissed...at least that's how the story goes. I don't think it was even that. He was in Jerusalem during a high point of tension. I think if he was overheard saying anything remotely revolutionary, it could have gotten him killed.
The Nehor Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 35 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Well it basically didn't. We're just two anonymous posters on an obscure board that no one cares about. Judging by some of the angry and offended posts I have read someone cares.
The Nehor Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 31 minutes ago, Ahab said: Are you imagining all of the bad people just going poof out of existence? Yeah, the bad people will die. I'm not so sure they will go quickly, though. I'm imagining a 3 Nephi kind of thing with a lot going on BEFORE they hear a voice from heaven announcing Jesus is coming. No, I imagine them screaming as the fire consumes them and the skin melts off their bones and their bones crack in the heat. They lament as the excruciating pain finally gives way to the sweet oblivion of death. I just realized I might be a disturbed individual.
california boy Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 47 minutes ago, stemelbow said: Well if the unidentified man who lived on a remote pacific island 1500 years ago has a chance, then what's the point fo the gospel on this planet to him? If it's so important for individuals to have a fair chance at accepting the gospel while walking around this globe why is it that God made it impossible for most of humanity to ever have a chance at it? Not only are the odds stacked 99.9% against someone joining the church but God made the whole story of the restoration a pretty difficult pill to believe. Golden plates, hidden in New York where a boy is told to retrieve them and then rather than translating them, puts his head in a hat and looks at a rock. Later goes on to marry other men's wives and 14 year old girls. Claims some scrolls are written by the hand of Abraham himself and gives a translation that doesn't even resemble any of the scrolls that are newer than anything Abraham could have written. If that isn't enough of a deterrent, the church has racist policies and policies against the children of gay couples that just don't seem very Christ-like. Yeah, as a strategy to become the vehicle to find our way back to God, He pretty much threw a whole bunch of stuff to make it a pretty difficult story to swallow. You guys definitely have your work cut out for you. 1
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