Aaronic priesthood/scouting meeting/broadcast

[rongo]

I just received (late) notice that there will be a regional meeting/broadcast regarding Aaronic priesthood and scouting this weekend for the Phoenix area. Charles Dahlquist, BSA National Commissioner and previous Young Men's General President (and my mission president) will speak. Friday night is for boys, parents, and leaders, and Saturday night is bishoprics and YM presidencies. 

I won't be able to go to either. I have a re-baptism Friday night, and we're throwing a long-planned party for a friend Saturday night. 

Does anyone have any inkling/theories about this hastily put together fireside broadcast? I don't dare dream that any big changes are coming. I think it will be more along the lines of "the beatings will continue until morale improves" . . . 

Seriously, I am curious what might be said. Any advance ideas?

 

 

[ksfisher]

Haven't heard anything about it in Salt Lake.  It's not on the Churchwide Events Calendar.

 

There's nothing in the Official Communication Library about it.

Edited November 2, 2016 by ksfisher

[Rain]

Haven't heard anything either.  I suspect we won't make the first one since we have something till 8. DS is in YM and DH is YM first counselor.  Interesting that it comes on Fri and Sat night instead of one being in Sun. 

[Rain]

This is just odd timing.  Are you sure the dates are right?  Quick notice. Back to back meetings on a weekend. Friday is a huge date night for a lot of LDS couples. It is also Time Out for Women - not official church stuff, but a lot of my friends go to it. And Saturday is Baden Powell  Univetsity. Thursday is also roundtable for Mesa. That packs an awful lot of scout stuff in one week plus YM activities that happened Tue or Wed already.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Rain

[rongo]

It's regional, not something out of Salt Lake. Yes, the dates are right. It will be broadcast from the Mesa InterStake Center. "The Grand Canyone Council LDS-BSA Relations Committee under the direction of Elder Karl M. Tilleman with additional training by Charles W. Dahlquist, National BSA Commissioner and previous Young Men General President."

I won't be able to make either, but it sounds to me like it's a "rah, rah, Come to Jesus!" meeting to try to stem anti-BSA sentiment. From that perspective, I'm interested in what is said. I'm about as anti-BSA as can be, so I'm curious.  

Then again, it might just be another boring, garden variety Scout training meeting. 

The timing is terrible. Not only a Friday/Saturday, but as mentioned, I have more important prior engagements (including a re-baptism of an excommunicated member). Next week (Veteran's Day weekend), we have a stake youth conference, plus the fall play at the high school (involving a lot of LDS youth). This meeting seems to have been hastily sprung on us.

[HappyJackWagon]

16 hours ago, rongo said:

I just received (late) notice that there will be a regional meeting/broadcast regarding Aaronic priesthood and scouting this weekend for the Phoenix area. Charles Dahlquist, BSA National Commissioner and previous Young Men's General President (and my mission president) will speak. Friday night is for boys, parents, and leaders, and Saturday night is bishoprics and YM presidencies. 

I won't be able to go to either. I have a re-baptism Friday night, and we're throwing a long-planned party for a friend Saturday night. 

Does anyone have any inkling/theories about this hastily put together fireside broadcast? I don't dare dream that any big changes are coming. I think it will be more along the lines of "the beatings will continue until morale improves" . . . 

Seriously, I am curious what might be said. Any advance ideas?

 

 

I sincerely doubt it's a big deal where some momentous announcement will be made. I think it is more a reflection of the church's communication philosophy where they try to build excitement and interest by making last minute meeting announcements. Either that, or the meeting just wasn't organized sufficiently to make an earlier announcement.

Despite having our regular Stake Conference scheduled in two weeks, this next Sunday we have a "special stake conference" which is a large regional deal. It was announced a couple of weeks ago. No topics or speakers have been shared. In other words, they announced a special meeting without any clue about what makes it special. It's just another meeting where they want to share a message with a portion of the church, instead of the whole church in general conference last month. Hard to be excited about it. How often in life are we summoned to attendance at a meeting without even being told what it's about?

At least you know the topic of your special, last minute meeting. It's nice to see the YM get special attention in this special meeting. I suppose the YW and leaders weren't in need of any special attention.

[Rain]

I wondered about dates because it was regional. It just seems odd to me me that they would do it in the Phoenix area the same week Baden Powell is in Phoenix and now in Mesa the same week round table is in Mesa.

[bluebell]

18 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I sincerely doubt it's a big deal where some momentous announcement will be made. I think it is more a reflection of the church's communication philosophy where they try to build excitement and interest by making last minute meeting announcements. Either that, or the meeting just wasn't organized sufficiently to make an earlier announcement.

Despite having our regular Stake Conference scheduled in two weeks, this next Sunday we have a "special stake conference" which is a large regional deal. It was announced a couple of weeks ago. No topics or speakers have been shared. In other words, they announced a special meeting without any clue about what makes it special. It's just another meeting where they want to share a message with a portion of the church, instead of the whole church in general conference last month. Hard to be excited about it. How often in life are we summoned to attendance at a meeting without even being told what it's about?

At least you know the topic of your special, last minute meeting. It's nice to see the YM get special attention in this special meeting. I suppose the YW and leaders weren't in need of any special attention.

We had this regional conference two sundays ago.  It was pretty much just like the ones they did for a while a decade ago, where they replaced one stake conference each year with a regional broadcast.  My parents are having their regional broadcast this coming weekend.  The topics were typical stake conference type topics.

It was announced in our stake back in September though.  And it wasn't marketed as 'special' in my area.  I think a lot of that just depends on the stake presidency

[HappyJackWagon]

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

We had this regional conference two sundays ago.  It was pretty much just like the ones they did for a while a decade ago, where they replaced one stake conference each year with a regional broadcast.  My parents are having their regional broadcast this coming weekend.  The topics were typical stake conference type topics.

It was announced in our stake back in September though.  And it wasn't marketed as 'special' in my area.  I think a lot of that just depends on the stake presidency

I think you're right. But this meeting is a recent addition because we still have another stake conference 2 weeks later. That will make 3 for the year (2 within 3 weeks). Hardly seems necessary. 

[bluebell]

3 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I think you're right. But this meeting is a recent addition because we still have another stake conference 2 weeks later. That will make 3 for the year (2 within 3 weeks). Hardly seems necessary. 

Yes, it was the same for us (here in Utah) and my parents (in Northern Wyoming).  My stake conference is this weekend.  My parents had their's two weekends ago.  Both the date of our stake conference and the date of the regional broadcast were announced in September for us.  Both might have been known even before that, but so few people ever check the stake calendar for such things it's hard to say.

Generally our stake presidency is good about getting this kind of information out to us fairly early (I'm the communications specialist for our ward so i get them first and then pass them on in the weekly announcements).

[stemelbow]

hm....may include a big push to get our young men back into scouting.  I'm curious because it does seem like scouting has lost some footing in LDS circles.  It used to be treated like an inspired program, in  step with Church in every way.  I'm not so sure many see it that way any more.  Curious if they want to make an appeal to get more boys and leaders motivated to do scouting. 

[Rain]

31 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

hm....may include a big push to get our young men back into scouting.  I'm curious because it does seem like scouting has lost some footing in LDS circles.  It used to be treated like an inspired program, in  step with Church in every way.  I'm not so sure many see it that way any more.  Curious if they want to make an appeal to get more boys and leaders motivated to do scouting. 

I'm one that didn't like scouting much. There was an Ensign article about how it started about 5 years ago that helped.  

In July I became a Wolf den leader. I went through the training for it online.  I have to tell you I REALLY like the idea behind it.  It's meant to teach the boys the  ideas in the scout law - trustworthy, loyal, helpful etc. through accomplishing things, leadership and having fun. 

One problem is that you are supposed to keep it simple, but the program in many ways is not simple.  

The other problem is that it has become a program for many to pass things off, not the underlying intent of it. I was grateful to recognize that and have made that the focus in our den meetings,  even though I am ruffling a few feathers when I tell the parents that my focus is the ideals, not the passing off so parents are going to have to step up if they want the boys to pass off everything. 

My husband was ready to quit varsity coach after round table his first night which was the day I was doing the training. I told him that we are supposed to keep it simple, have fun and learn those things.  It amazed me how his feelings changed about his calling when he heard this.  

So I won't be sad if the church leaves scouting, but in the meantime if we change our focus from passing off things to learning the ideals it can be a great blessing for the boys.  

[stemelbow]

3 minutes ago, Rain said:

I'm one that didn't like scouting much. There was an Ensign article about how it started about 5 years ago that helped.  

In July I became a Wolf den leader. I went through the training for it online.  I have to tell you I REALLY like the idea behind it.  It's meant to teach the boys the  ideas in the scout law - trustworthy, loyal, helpful etc. through accomplishing things, leadership and having fun. 

One problem is that you are supposed to keep it simple, but the program in many ways is not simple.  

The other problem is that it has become a program for many to pass things off, not the underlying intent of it. I was grateful to recognize that and have made that the focus in our den meetings,  even though I am ruffling a few feathers when I tell the parents that my focus is the ideals, not the passing off so parents are going to have to step up if they want the boys to pass off everything. 

My husband was ready to quit varsity coach after round table his first night which was the day I was doing the training. I told him that we are supposed to keep it simple, have fun and learn those things.  It amazed me how his feelings changed about his calling when he heard this.  

So I won't be sad if the church leaves scouting, but in the meantime if we change our focus from passing off things to learning the ideals it can be a great blessing for the boys.  

That's a great way to go about it for sure.  My wife has had long sustained callings as a cub scout leader over the years.  my oldest is 18 now, but when he turned 8, my wife got called.  Then he turned 12 and she found herself in the stake Primary presidency, the councilor over cub scouts.  Then she was released in time to get a new calling as another cub scout leader.  That ended about 6 mos ago, much to her delight.  She really struggled on two counts--the parents would often try to make her create a whole new ceremony for their kids when they got advancements, as if the kids advancement were the focus.  She made some parents upset when she said changing the whole program to set it up as if their kids are more special than others was not happening. She's really lamented the focus the Church puts on boys compared to girls.  Scouts puts the craw in her drawers on that.  She knows it takes more money and focus than any young girl or women program does in the Church. 

That's not to say, as you mention, there's not something good in it.  She tried, as I saw it, to focus much as you describe.  We really should focus on the simplicity and the good it can be for the boys. 

[Rain]

2 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

That's a great way to go about it for sure.  My wife has had long sustained callings as a cub scout leader over the years.  my oldest is 18 now, but when he turned 8, my wife got called.  Then he turned 12 and she found herself in the stake Primary presidency, the councilor over cub scouts.  Then she was released in time to get a new calling as another cub scout leader.  That ended about 6 mos ago, much to her delight.  She really struggled on two counts--the parents would often try to make her create a whole new ceremony for their kids when they got advancements, as if the kids advancement were the focus.  She made some parents upset when she said changing the whole program to set it up as if their kids are more special than others was not happening. She's really lamented the focus the Church puts on boys compared to girls.  Scouts puts the craw in her drawers on that.  She knows it takes more money and focus than any young girl or women program does in the Church. 

That's not to say, as you mention, there's not something good in it.  She tried, as I saw it, to focus much as you describe.  We really should focus on the simplicity and the good it can be for the boys. 

My personal opinion is the only cost difference between the boys and the girls should be the cost of awards for the boys.  Not that they should cost more,  but the reality is they do cost more so I am ok that the boys get more for that.  

At the same time I would be completely happy to do away with all the belt loops etc. I'd love to see just a band, like the merit badge band or two, for both boys and girls, 8 years and older, and that be the only "uniform" for all awards. 

[rongo]

3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

At least you know the topic of your special, last minute meeting. It's nice to see the YM get special attention in this special meeting. I suppose the YW and leaders weren't in need of any special attention.

I think the YW get better special attention than the YM. They only get Scouts . . .  

[rongo]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

hm....may include a big push to get our young men back into scouting.  I'm curious because it does seem like scouting has lost some footing in LDS circles.  It used to be treated like an inspired program, in  step with Church in every way.  I'm not so sure many see it that way any more.  Curious if they want to make an appeal to get more boys and leaders motivated to do scouting. 

I suspect that this is what it is.

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

One problem is that you are supposed to keep it simple, but the program in many ways is not simple.

This. In spades.

Scouting (cub and BSA) gets exceptions to the other policies. No fundraisers --- except for one camp (yes, YW camp gets one, too). Reduce time and money demands and meetings for activities --- except for Scouts. The program is extremely time-intensive, and very, very expensive. In a lot of ways, it's a pyramid scheme for BSA. The books, clothing, badges, camps --- everything is extortionately expensive. Much, much more expensive than it needs to be, but you have a captive clientele when they have to have them through BSA. Even the cub scout re-do was designed to bring in more money at once (all new books, more belt loops and badges that have to be bought), and the new program includes many more time-intensive and contra-LDS policy activities (like overnight campouts for cubs, large excursions that LDS packs simply have to skip or ignore, etc.). The chartering fees from all the North American stakes (fees for every boy in every ward, including many non-members) paid by the Church already present large income, and then the Church runs a separate FoS fundraiser within the Church (non-members sell popcorn) --- all of which goes straight to BSA with not a dime going to the local troop/pack.

The other problem is that it has become a program for many to pass things off, not the underlying intent of it.

And, quality control with standards is non-existent. Many LDS boys become Eagles at 14, who can't demonstrate competency in pretty much anything. 

My husband was ready to quit varsity coach after round table his first night which was the day I was doing the training. I told him that we are supposed to keep it simple, have fun and learn those things.  It amazed me how his feelings changed about his calling when he heard this.  

What I don't like about Roundtable is that it is a completely unnecessary meeting. Its purpose is for adults to have a fraternal experience, with songs, skits, and Scout goofiness. Announcements or activity options could be sent out in a newsletter. My wife and I both went to one and said, "Never again." And the Woodbadge song that took twenty minutes, with each person who had been to Woodbadge giving their animal . . . 

So I won't be sad if the church leaves scouting, but in the meantime if we change our focus from passing off things to learning the ideals it can be a great blessing for the boys.

That's where I'm at. I would much prefer a semi-weekly activities program for boys, similar to activity day girls, without the vast time commitments and myriad ways of increasing BSA coffers through badges, registrations, camps, fundraisers, etc. 

[bluebell]

20 minutes ago, rongo said:

This. In spades.

Scouting (cub and BSA) gets exceptions to the other policies. No fundraisers --- except for one camp (yes, YW camp gets one, too). Reduce time and money demands and meetings for activities --- except for Scouts. The program is extremely time-intensive, and very, very expensive. In a lot of ways, it's a pyramid scheme for BSA. The books, clothing, badges, camps --- everything is extortionately expensive. Much, much more expensive than it needs to be, but you have a captive clientele when they have to have them through BSA.

We just bought our almost 12 year old one scout shirt, his book, and three number patches.  It was $70.  That's.  Just.  Stupid.

[Duncan]

Is it just me or is something very curious going on this year with the Church? With everything people have been saying in this thread, we, in our stake, will have 4 stake conferences this year. The two regular ones and then we had special one about the Temple and had a speaker or two plus this weekend they are doing it again with speakers and then this broadcast business. Plus our stake had a GA at both stake conferences this year plus they had a special priesthood leadership meeting with Elder Renlund and some other visitors, but it wasn't a stake conference though. Never in my life have I ever been to so many stake conferences in one year and then this last one the Seventy told us to stop having so many meetings well, like quit having so many then!!!!!!

Edited November 3, 2016 by Duncan

[Gray]

33 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Is it just me or is something very curious going on this year with the Church? With everything people have been saying in this thread, we, in our stake, will have 4 stake conferences this year. The two regular ones and then we had special one about the Temple and had a speaker or two plus this weekend they are doing it again with speakers and then this broadcast business. Plus our stake had a GA at both stake conferences this year plus they had a special priesthood leadership meeting with Elder Renlund and some other visitors, but it wasn't a stake conference though. Never in my life have I ever been to so many stake conferences in one year and then this last one the Seventy told us to stop having so many meetings well, like quit having so many then!!!!!!

The Seventy in charge of our area said the same thing a few years back! I'm not sure anyone listened, but I wish they would!

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

I think the YW get better special attention than the YM. They only get Scouts . . .  

What special attention do the YW get?

They don't even get scouts.

[Rain]

41 minutes ago, rongo said:

This. In spades.

Scouting (cub and BSA) gets exceptions to the other policies. No fundraisers --- except for one camp (yes, YW camp gets one, too). Reduce time and money demands and meetings for activities --- except for Scouts. The program is extremely time-intensive, and very, very expensive. In a lot of ways, it's a pyramid scheme for BSA. The books, clothing, badges, camps --- everything is extortionately expensive. Much, much more expensive than it needs to be, but you have a captive clientele when they have to have them through BSA. Even the cub scout re-do was designed to bring in more money at once (all new books, more belt loops and badges that have to be bought), and the new program includes many more time-intensive and contra-LDS policy activities (like overnight campouts for cubs, large excursions that LDS packs simply have to skip or ignore, etc.). The chartering fees from all the North American stakes (fees for every boy in every ward, including many non-members) paid by the Church already present large income, and then the Church runs a separate FoS fundraiser within the Church (non-members sell popcorn) --- all of which goes straight to BSA with not a dime going to the local troop/pack.

Yep, forgot about that stuff.  What I was meaning to say is that we shouldn't count all of the boys budget and compare it with all of the girls budget.  There are just a lot of things that don't really go to local scouts and not much choice in where it goes.  So while we are in scouts I'm more concerned that the money used for activities and things like that is equal than that the total budgets are equal. I would even be good with money for awards being more equal - no reason for girls not to get awards too though I'm of the mind that we don't need to award from EVERYTHING that seems to be the case now days. 

41 minutes ago, rongo said:

 

 

And, quality control with standards is non-existent. Many LDS boys become Eagles at 14, who can't demonstrate competency in pretty much anything. 

Totally.  100% agree with you on this. I wish I would have understood this better when my oldest was young.  There are 7 years between my oldest and youngest and it let me see just what this was doing to my oldest.  

My youngest was frustrated for awhile because of this - because I wouldn't just let him pass things off.  When we first moved here there was a swimming/life saving 2.5 hour class to get those merit badges. I had doubts this could really be done, but we had just moved here and I thought with all the swimming pools maybe the boys are just already competent in most of the things.  I figured there was a good chance my son wouldn't get them all done that night so I was expecting him to come home with blue cards that had this or that signed, but not it all.  I had to be somewhere else for the first part, but then came and watched for the second.  The boys were in a classroom for that first part. I was familiar with the requirements so I watched to see what he would pass off and there was very little he could pass off.   In fact, a number of those boys didn't do the things I was watching - there were so many boys in the pool and the leaders were helping a little, but they were not keeping track of who was doing what.   

Afterwards they lined them up for their blue cards and were sending everyone of them home with 2 signed cards.   I had my son wait so I could speak with the leader signing them.  When I told him that my son hadn't passed them all off he was surprised and even said that all the boys had done it.  I said I was specifically watching and no, many of the boys had not done at least what I was watching.  We have a pool so I asked the leader if I could work with my son and then when my son was ready if he would sign off on the things. That really confused him that I would do that.  It took a couple of months before he was ready for the swimming.  He still doesn't have lifesaving and has decided to do the alternate one instead.    

But something like that happened 3 times in his first year of scouts.  He was really frustrated because he would go in thinking he would get the merit badge and then be done with not having it and usually not even being half done.  we talked with him and he understood and agreed that he shouldn't get the badges if he didn't earn them, but it was still very frustrating to him, especially when one boy will remind him of the lifesaving class where they earned it whenever it comes up that my son doesn't have it.  He is past that now and is working on his eagle project, but he is actually earning it.  It has helped to have his dad as varsity coach and a bishop who agrees that the YM should be doing the work and leadership, not the adult leaders. 

41 minutes ago, rongo said:

 

 

What I don't like about Roundtable is that it is a completely unnecessary meeting. Its purpose is for adults to have a fraternal experience, with songs, skits, and Scout goofiness. Announcements or activity options could be sent out in a newsletter. My wife and I both went to one and said, "Never again." And the Woodbadge song that took twenty minutes, with each person who had been to Woodbadge giving their animal . . . 

Yep.  at the round table that my husband went to a man talked about mountain men camp and that it was a good idea to buy a $100 blanket (good cost) and cut it up and have your mom sew you a mountain man coat out of it.    And all the boys should do it too.

The round table I went to had a break out session for the different leaders and that part was good, but I am pretty creative and I have the internet so I am not too worried about it.  Our stake then meets together and I'm ok with that and then our ward meets after that and that meeting I think is necessary as we plan pack meetings etc.  So now I skip the main 2 parts of round table and just go to the stake and ward.

And what is up with on time drawings?  We have to try to bribe people to get there on time?

41 minutes ago, rongo said:

 

 

That's where I'm at. I would much prefer a semi-weekly activities program for boys, similar to activity day girls, without the vast time commitments and myriad ways of increasing BSA coffers through badges, registrations, camps, fundraisers, etc. 

Yes.  

I really enjoyed last night.  We had a special den/pack meeting. I'm sure it doesn't technically count.  We have one requirement that the boys need to do at pack meeting. One of my boys has a custody situation where he can never make it to pack meeting and as far as we can tell he isn't going in his dad's ward. We are combined with another ward so trying to move pack meeting to another night with all 6 dens wasn't going to happen easily at all for numerous reasons.  So we had a pack meeting with just our den, their families with older siblings dressed in uniforms as they would for pack meeting , and ward cub leaders.  It was wild, but the feeling was great as the mom expressed her gratitude for us doing this and other parents understanding that this is all about the boys and who they are and not about "scouts".

 

[Rain]

59 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Is it just me or is something very curious going on this year with the Church? With everything people have been saying in this thread, we, in our stake, will have 4 stake conferences this year. The two regular ones and then we had special one about the Temple and had a speaker or two plus this weekend they are doing it again with speakers and then this broadcast business. Plus our stake had a GA at both stake conferences this year plus they had a special priesthood leadership meeting with Elder Renlund and some other visitors, but it wasn't a stake conference though. Never in my life have I ever been to so many stake conferences in one year and then this last one the Seventy told us to stop having so many meetings well, like quit having so many then!!!!!!

We've had it as well.  

[rongo]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

We just bought our almost 12 year old one scout shirt, his book, and three number patches.  It was $70.  That's.  Just.  Stupid.

That's. Just. Extortion.  And because of a monopoly. The Scout store and paraphernalia should be affordable and not make an obscene profit, to be consistent with Scouting values. 

It was reading things like this:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/county-68823-council-orange.html

and my own experiences and observations that made me really sour on BSA's national organization, Friends of Scouting (which pays for things like in the article, plus executive pay).

[Rain]

Ok,  thought.  An awful lot of pilot programs seem to happen here.  Could this possibly be another pilot program of some kind? 

Still haven't heard about the meetings yet.  If we are involved I think someone at round table will know about it even if the one I go to is just cubs. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Rain