ALarson Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 I have seen this new book discussed elsewhere, but wonder if anyone has read it that can comment on it? Nevo??? I'd love to hear your feedback on it, if you've looked into this book, as I value your fair assessments regarding church history information. Here is some info on the author: Quote Kathleen Kimball Melonakos, Author Kathleen is a direct descendant of Mormon leader Heber C. Kimball and his first wife Vilate. She is a graduate of Brigham Young University and holds a Master’s degree in Philosophy from Stanford University and did her Master’s thesis on the famous essay, “The Will to Believe” by psychologist William James. Kathleen is a former active Mormon and a lifelong student of Mormon history, religions, philosophy, classics, and the Bible. Her previously published works includes Saunder’s Pocket Reference for Nurses, 1990, 1995, and The Musician’s Quotation Book, 1990, 1997. Beginning in 2007, Kathleen began visiting courthouses, libraries, state archives, universities, and historical societies in the areas of early Mormon settlement, including Vermont, New York, Illinois, Missouri, Utah, and other areas, such as Beaver Island, Michigan. She collected copies of original historical documents that reveal a new dimension in Mormon (and pre-Mormon) history. She then connects the dots and presents a riveting story that is hard to put down. You may never see Mormon history OR early American history the same again. And info on the book: Quote This book chronicles the evidence that early Mormon leaders, starting with Joseph Smith Sr., dealt in counterfeit money beginning in Vermont, and continuing throughout Joseph and Hyrum's careers. It places the Smith brothers in the early American context where counterfeiting networks and some of their CEO-like bosses posed as preachers. It is the only book of its kind that uncovers the problems counterfeiters caused in early America and what really happened before, during and after the Book of Mormon appeared on the scene. Both fact-based and fast moving, supported by more than 1400 footnotes and over 100 photos and illustrations. Based on nearly 10 years of research, conducted in Vermont, New York, Illinois, Missouri, and Utah. I know there were suspicions and accusations of counterfeiting against early church leaders/members, but I am interested to know if there is really any documentation. If anyone has read this book (it was just released a month ago), I'd love to hear a review or opinion regarding what this author found in doing her research. Here is a link to this book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Combinations-Evidence-Counterfeiting-1800-1847/dp/194414109X 2
stemelbow Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 I saw this book too. I'm curious what it details through 1847-less curious about the pre-1820 time. 1
cdowis Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) " The pre-publication version has received enthusiastic reviews from such leading historians of Mormonism as Sandra Tanner, Will Bagley, Charles Larsen and Dr. James Beverly, Professor of Religion at Tyndale Seminary. " ...contains over 1,400 footnotes and 100 photos and illustrations."Book Synopsis: Using original documents and on-site research in Vermont, New York, Missouri, Michigan, Illinois and Utah, this book begins with figures in 18th- and 19th-century America who developed secret networks to promote counterfeiting and other illegal schemes and often used religion as a cover." (post on antiMormon web site) There are presently four views on Amazon, two of which are anonymous. All are five stars. Edited October 14, 2016 by cdowis
JLHPROF Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, cdowis said: leading historians of Mormonism as Sandra Tanner, Will Bagley, Charles Larsen and Dr. James Beverly Well, ONE of them might be able to be termed a leading historian of Mormonism...maybe.
RevTestament Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 49 minutes ago, ALarson said: I know there were suspicions and accusations of counterfeiting against early church leaders/members, but I am interested to know if there is really any documentation. If anyone has read this book (it was just released a month ago), I'd love to hear a review or opinion regarding what this author found in doing her research. Here is a link to this book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Secret-Combinations-Evidence-Counterfeiting-1800-1847/dp/194414109X Can't comment on the historical accuracy of any of the documentation, but it does seem counterintuitive regarding the Smith family. IF they were really counterfeiting money, why did they fall into financial hard times with the death of Alvin, and lose their log home? Why was Joseph puttering around in holes for pocket change? Further, by Joseph's day there really was no paper money. There had been some during the war of 1812, but after it ended in 1815, it quickly lost value since it could only be redeemed by buying treasury notes which stopped being issued when the expenses of the war effort ceased. So it would be interesting to see what money they were supposed to be counterfeiting. Counterfeiting coins was exceedingly difficult, and the constitution gave the states no right to issue paper money. 2
ALarson Posted October 14, 2016 Author Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) Yes, I've read the reviews and they are all positive, but I'd love to hear from someone here that I can trust. And, those you mention have been fair in other instances and then also biased at other times (more so). But that does not mean they are not accurate about this book. This is why I posted it here. If this author has done the extensive research as reported and has documentation and evidence, I'd like to know more about it. I may just order the book and read it for myself, but just thought I'd ask before I ordered it. . Edited October 14, 2016 by ALarson
Gray Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 13 minutes ago, ALarson said: Yes, I've read the reviews and they are all positive, but I'd love to hear from someone here that I can trust. And, those you mention have been fair in other instances and then also biased at other times (more so). But that does not mean they are not accurate about this book. This is why I posted it here. If this author has done the extensive research as reported and has documentation and evidence, I'd like to know more about it. I may just order the book and read it for myself, but just thought I'd ask before I ordered it. . It's hard to review a book you haven't read. I think it will be some time before there can be any meaningful reaction.
ALarson Posted October 14, 2016 Author Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Gray said: It's hard to review a book you haven't read. I think it will be some time before there can be any meaningful reaction. From the responses by some here who seem to have not read the book, I think you are correct. JLHPROF or cdowis, have you actually read the book? Just curious... Edited October 14, 2016 by ALarson
Oliver_Cowdery Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated in part for the charge of being associated with coin counterfeiters. The accusation that Oliver had something to do with counterfeiting followed him for years. At the time of his excommunication he did not directly refute the charge. However, he did refute the charge in a private letter written many years after his excommunication. 1
cdowis Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) 39 minutes ago, ALarson said: From the responses by some here who seem to have not read the book, I think you are correct. JLHPROF or cdowis, have you actually read the book? Just curious... No, but I was not commenting on its contents. Just putting it into context of its intended audience. It appears to be just another long line of "scholarly" books, especially with the emphasis on how many footnotes, and the diagrams and photographs. It then ties into the development of the doctrines of the church, etc etc. Just a new wrinkle on a very old subject, in my view. It is puzzling how the story of Momonism starts in 1800, but I'm sure they have that well documented in those 1400 footnotes. I did not see a mention of her background, or credentials. Edited October 14, 2016 by cdowis 2
ALarson Posted October 14, 2016 Author Posted October 14, 2016 1 minute ago, cdowis said: No, but I was not commenting on its contents. Ok. So, in other words, you have nothing of substance to offer in response to my OP.
ALarson Posted October 14, 2016 Author Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, cdowis said: It is puzzling how the story of Momonism starts in 1800, but I'm sure they have that well documented in those 1400 footnotes. It sounds like she goes back into some of Joseph Smith Sr.'s history and documents that as well (but I'm not entirely sure about that). But again, until you've actually read the book and also actually checked out the footnotes for yourself, your opinion is pretty meaningless regarding the author's research and book. . Edited October 14, 2016 by ALarson 1
Tacenda Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 I'm hoping it comes out on Kindle very soon. My eyes are terrible and I can't read the smaller print comfortably. I've ordered some in the past on Amazon having to do with Mormonism, and they sit on the shelf unread. 1
JulieM Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, stemelbow said: I saw this book too. I'm curious what it details through 1847-less curious about the pre-1820 time. Me too. I've seen others post about this on other forums and it sounds like it's a very interesting book. I guess the author spent years looking and searching where others haven't before her (at least as deeply as she did). It would be great if someone posted what she found that was new compared to what is already out there. Edited October 14, 2016 by JulieM
JLHPROF Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 11 minutes ago, ALarson said: From the responses by some here who seem to have not read the book, I think you are correct. JLHPROF or cdowis, have you actually read the book? Just curious... No, and it might be good. Might be very insightful. But those "leading Mormon historians" don't fill me with hope. 1
cdowis Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) 25 minutes ago, ALarson said: But again, until you've actually read the book and also actually checked out the footnotes for yourself, your opinion is pretty meaningless regarding the author's research and book. . Some find my observations useful, others do not. I am open to someone purchasing the book for me, and to pay $500 to read it and publish my observations and comments. Edited October 14, 2016 by cdowis
ALarson Posted October 14, 2016 Author Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: No, and it might be good. Might be very insightful. I guess until you've read it, you won't know 7 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: But those "leading Mormon historians" don't fill me with hope. That seems to be from a blog reflecting one person's opinion (that they are leading Mormon historians) and they are certainly entitled to their opinion. I'm more interested in the contents of the book and I may just have to order it and read it myself. . Edited October 14, 2016 by ALarson
Tacenda Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 15 minutes ago, cdowis said: Some find my observations useful, others do not. I am open to someone purchasing the book for me, and to pay $500 to read it and publish my observations and comments. No matter if it's true? I understand, pick and choose what to believe, fine by me. I do the same thing on the opposite end.
cdowis Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) 27 minutes ago, ALarson said: That seems to be from a blog reflecting one person's opinion (that they are leading Mormon historians) and they are certainly entitled to their opinion. . I suspect that they are having difficulty finding a reputable historian to review the book. Her particular expertise lies in her ability to "connect the dots", which is,of course, a rare commodity among antiMormon writers. Some dots are very distant from each other, but she has a special set of binoculars which can discern very distant objects. Remember, her narrative begins in 1800. Edited October 14, 2016 by cdowis 2
ALarson Posted October 14, 2016 Author Posted October 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, cdowis said: I suspect that they are having difficulty finding ANY reputable historian to review the book. Her particular expertise lies in her ability to "connect the dots", which is,of course, a rare commodity among antiMormon writers. Again, I'm asking for the opinion of anyone who has actually read the book. But continue making meaningless, critical comments if you like 1
RevTestament Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 2 hours ago, ALarson said: Here is some info on the author: Quote Beginning in 2007, Kathleen began visiting courthouses, libraries, state archives, universities, and historical societies in the areas of early Mormon settlement, including Vermont, New York, Illinois, Missouri, Utah, and other areas, such as Beaver Island, Michigan. She collected copies of original historical documents that reveal a new dimension in Mormon (and pre-Mormon) history. She then connects the dots and presents a riveting story that is hard to put down. You may never see Mormon history OR early American history the same again. And info on the book: I know there were suspicions and accusations of counterfeiting against early church leaders/members, but I am interested to know if there is really any documentation. If anyone has read this book (it was just released a month ago), I'd love to hear a review or opinion regarding what this author found in doing her research. My main concern with books like this is reflected in the part I highlighted. "Connecting the dots" sounds like opinion - not necessarily factual history. But the facts she collected may be somewhat interesting. Her seeming willingness to throw the Smiths under the bus troubles me, but hopefully she is not prejudiced about it. Early critics such as Pomeroy Tucker are hypocritical in their criticism. For instance on the one hand calling the Smiths illiterate, while on the other saying Joseph Smith liked to read, and failing to realize his mother taught school. Those bent on being critics such as Tucker and the Turners, don't interest me much. So accolades about the book from those like the Turners don't do it any favors imho. Let us know what you think when you read it.
ksfisher Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 5 minutes ago, cdowis said: I suspect that they are having difficulty finding ANY reputable historian to review the book. Her particular expertise lies in her ability to "connect the dots", which is,of course, a rare commodity among antiMormon writers. Some dots are very distant from each other, but never fear, she has a special set of binoculars which can discern very distant objects. I don't know anything about the book or the author. I have read a lot of history books and numerous subjects. I shy away from book where the phrase "connect the dots" is used in the advertising. Usually it seems to mean that the author jumps to conclusions where evidence is lacking. Could be entirely different with this book though. I will say that the Smith family standard of living does not seem to support the idea that they were master criminals. 2
ksfisher Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 Amazon lists "Lyrical Productions" as the publisher. I've tried searching for their website but cannot find anything. Does anyone have a link to the publishers site?
JLHPROF Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, ksfisher said: Amazon lists "Lyrical Productions" as the publisher. I've tried searching for their website but cannot find anything. Does anyone have a link to the publishers site? Self published - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleen-melonakos-6052a614Owner Lyrical Productions "Studying the Bible has changed my life and as a Christian believer I recognize it as "The Book of All Books." Yeah, this will be an objective study. ETA: https://www.facebook.com/kathleen.melonakoshttp://www.utlm.org/booklist/titles/secretcombinationsevidenceofearlymormoncounterfeiting_xb367.htm - table of contents (Yes, that "Lighthouse Ministry".) Edited October 14, 2016 by JLHPROF
cdowis Posted October 14, 2016 Posted October 14, 2016 10 minutes ago, ALarson said: But continue making meaningless, critical comments if you like I have only just begun. I really need that $500, bitcoin only, please.
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