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Group advocating for women priests march during General Conference


JAHS

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Given most were some place else between sessions (getting lunch, resting, visiting), doesn't seem a particularly effective way of making contact, but the purple umbrellas are pretty clever.  Points to whoever thought that one up.

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20 minutes ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

Do they expect to get a revelation from God out of protest?

Revelation comes most often as an answer to a question.
Their hope is that their protest will cause the prophet to ask the question.

The flaw is that they think they already know what God's answer simply has to be.  They would reject any notion that God excludes women from the priesthood.

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Revelation comes most often as an answer to a question...

QFT

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2 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Here's the answer:

"The Lord has directed that only men will be ordained to offices in the priesthood."

The Keys and Authority of the Priesthood By Elder Dallin H. Oaks Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, April Conference 2014

And as I said "they think they already know what God's answer simply has to be.  They would reject any notion that God excludes women from the priesthood."
And they have.

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34 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

And as I said "they think they already know what God's answer simply has to be.  They would reject any notion that God excludes women from the priesthood."
And they have.

And notice that he did not say "only men are ordained", he used the future continuous tense and said "only men will be ordained". 

 

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18 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

And as I said "they think they already know what God's answer simply has to be.  They would reject any notion that God excludes women from the priesthood."
And they have.

The answer is already in the BOM

 

33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

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42 minutes ago, Gray said:

The answer is already in the BOM

 

33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile.

That has 0 to do with an ecclesiastical priesthood.
All have access to God.  Not all are called to every position.
 

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1 minute ago, Gray said:

All are alike unto God. The answer is right there. :)

Alike doesn't mean identical.
Siblings are alike, only identical twins are exactly the same.

And the very same scriptures that provided your quoted scripture make it very clear that God does view different groups of people differently.

Besides, that scripture refers to salvation and prayer, something available to ALL people.
I think you are applying it beyond its scope.

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3 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Alike doesn't mean identical.
Siblings are alike, only identical twins are exactly the same.

And the very same scriptures that provided your quoted scripture make it very clear that God does view different groups of people differently.

Besides, that scripture refers to salvation and prayer, something available to ALL people.
I think you are applying it beyond its scope.

I don't think so. The intent behind the scripture is that God doesn't look at us differently based on the color of our skin or our gender. As soon as we say women can't have the priesthood we're really saying all are NOT alike unto God. 

Edited by Gray
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19 hours ago, JAHS said:

Here's the answer:

"The Lord has directed that only men will be ordained to offices in the priesthood." 

The Keys and Authority of the Priesthood By Elder Dallin H. Oaks Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, April Conference 2014

It would be nice if Elder Oaks included a cite for the notion that the Lord directed the exclusion of women from ordination. The reason he didn't is because none exists. That's is own conclusion. But its not found in the scriptures.

It's also worth pointing out that a more authoritative source than Oak's talk - namely, the Church's essay on women and the priesthood - describes the limitation of ordaining only men as a practice that originated in Joseph's time and continuing to today. Notably, the essay does not give any of the traditional defenses for the practice (e.g. women are more spiritual) and the essay does not assert that the practice is directed by the Lord. Just as with the essay on the racial priesthood ban, this essay leaves open the question as to whether the practice is divinely inspired or merely divinely tolerated until the people seek for more good (See https://www.lds.org/topics/joseph-smiths-teachings-about-priesthood-temple-and-women?lang=eng).  

I'm glad to see that many women (and men) are still seeking for more good. The purple umbrellas are a great idea. I've been blessed when a women held an umbrella for me (literally). I'm hopeful for the day when I can be blessed by women who are allowed to hold the "priesthood" umbrella too.

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8 minutes ago, Gray said:

I don't think so. The intent behind the scripture is that God doesn't look at us differently based on the color of our skin or our gender. As soon as we see women can't have the priesthood we're really saying all are NOT alike unto God.

And you base that on that one scripture.
And ignore the dozens of others showing God's differentiation of people.

All are alike unto God.  Not all have the same calling.

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18 hours ago, JAHS said:

And notice that he did not say "only men are ordained", he used the future continuous tense and said "only men will be ordained". 

 

Notice that no one actually believes that a current apostle (or even all the current apostles) can bind future leaders. McConkie could issue an opinion that blacks would not be ordained until the Millennium. But that did not prevent church leaders from acting in 1978. Likewise, Oaks can opine as to whether women will ever be ordained. And goodness knows that his opinions is more valuable than mine. But it's still just an opinion. His authority will end with his death, just as with all apostles. 

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4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

And you base that on that one scripture.
And ignore the dozens of others showing God's differentiation of people.

All are alike unto God.  Not all have the same calling.

Well, we have to choose which scriptures we think are teaching a universal teaching, and which ones we think are teaching something that was a belief at the time it was written, but doesn't work any more. I would submit that "all are alike unto God" is universally applicable. "Slaughter the Amalekites," not so universal. 

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4 minutes ago, Gray said:

Well, we have to choose which scriptures we think are teaching a universal teaching, and which ones we think are teaching something that was a belief at the time it was written, but doesn't work any more. I would submit that "all are alike unto God" is universally applicable. "Slaughter the Amalekites," not so universal.

And Alma 13?  Abraham 3?  Matthew 15?

These seem to have some universal principles worth recognizing.

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12 minutes ago, Buckeye said:
19 hours ago, JAHS said:

Here's the answer:

"The Lord has directed that only men will be ordained to offices in the priesthood." 

The Keys and Authority of the Priesthood By Elder Dallin H. Oaks Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, April Conference 2014

It would be nice if Elder Oaks included a cite for the notion that the Lord directed the exclusion of women from ordination. The reason he didn't is because none exists. That's is own conclusion. But its not found in the scriptures.

Elder Oaks, who is a prophet of God said it, so that's enough for me for it to be considered direction from God. 

"And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation."  (DC 68: 4)

 

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13 minutes ago, Gray said:

Which principles are you referring to?

 Not everyone is meant to be called as a priest

Alma 13:  2 And those priests were ordained after the order of his Son, in a manner that thereby the people might know in what manner to look forward to his Son for redemption.
3 And this is the manner after which they were ordained—being called and prepared from the foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God, on account of their exceeding faith and good works; in the first place being left to choose good or evil; therefore they having chosen good, and exercising exceedingly great faith, are called with a holy calling, yea, with that holy calling which was prepared with, and according to, a preparatory redemption for such.

Not everyone is meant to be called to lead (ie, Bishops, Apostles, etc)

Abraham 3:22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.


God dictates the distribution of blessings to different groups of people at different times, not everyone all the time.

Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

 

And that's just for starters.

Edited by JLHPROF
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2 hours ago, Gray said:

I don't think so. The intent behind the scripture is that God doesn't look at us differently based on the color of our skin or our gender. As soon as we see women can't have the priesthood we're really saying all are NOT alike unto God. 

Who says they can't?

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On 10/4/2016 at 11:40 PM, sunstoned said:

As long as it is peaceful and non-disruptive I don't have too much of an issue with it.  I just think protesting at someone's place of worship is generally in bad form. 

I was down for conference weekend and saw them outside the Church Administration plaza-building-thingy on the south side. I don't mind it there in the least.

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