Quora biased against Mormonism?

[Gray]

48 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I'm not so sure that the Roman Catholic mass (or its parallels within other denominations), and the Jewish Passover differ in substance, nor that they are any less spiritual in nature -- at least in God's view.  Being LDS-centric may be nice (and have actual priesthood authority), but it is an extreme minority position, which may be largely irrelevant till Kingdom come.  It seems more like the LDS Church is God's special cadre preparing the Earth for the End Times, not that it is the only game in town.

The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

That works great until someone gets a spiritual confirmation of doctrine or practice not in Mormonism. 

For example, I know several Catholics who feel the Spirit during their Mass.  On what basis should they reject that spiritual confirmation in favor of a more LDS-centric one?

Cine, I think you often force a more narrow interpretation of doctrine and in doing so reflect a position not supported by the Church of Jesus Christ.  My Catholic friends have a very mature spiritual life.  In fact, they do not hunger for anything else.  Our time together is spent in edifying each other, identifying the similarities we share, jabbing one another over points upon which we disagree, and enjoying the brotherhood we feel toward one another.  

When conversion occurs is not when one rejects something, but a more appropriate view is that they find a better path.  I firmly believe that God is active in the lives of my friends from other churches and religions and that they are doing what God would have them do.  God is alive in their lives and they are doing all they can to serve him to the best of their ability as we are.  

If one of my Catholic friends should join the Church I expect they would partake of the Sacrament with an even stronger spiritual conviction of its value in their lives.  It would not surprise me if some converted Catholics don't fondly reminisce on their past spiritual lives. 

There is no need to maintain these false strictures upon the Church, yourself, or others.  Finding more truth does not negate the truths already found.  There is no diminishing of truth, but a path we all tread to greater truth.

[Freedom]

8 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Your logic escapes me a little; what do you mean when you write " when his children were willing to accept it", Are you inferring correctly they weren't ready when they were "Homo Habilis"or"Neanderthal"?

I suspect that the gospel was introduced when man was evolved enough to make and keep sacred covenants. There have been times throughout history when the gospel was taken way because the people were not willing to follow. This is what the doctrine of apostasy and restoration is all about. Civilization began with temples and temple worship, and Adam and Eve were the first endowed with this sacred form of worship. 

[cinepro]

3 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Cine, I think you often force a more narrow interpretation of doctrine and in doing so reflect a position not supported by the Church of Jesus Christ.  My Catholic friends have a very mature spiritual life.  In fact, they do not hunger for anything else.  Our time together is spent in edifying each other, identifying the similarities we share, jabbing one another over points upon which we disagree, and enjoying the brotherhood we feel toward one another.  

When conversion occurs is not when one rejects something, but a more appropriate view is that they find a better path.  I firmly believe that God is active in the lives of my friends from other churches and religions and that they are doing what God would have them do.  God is alive in their lives and they are doing all they can to serve him to the best of their ability as we are.  

If one of my Catholic friends should join the Church I expect they would partake of the Sacrament with an even stronger spiritual conviction of its value in their lives.  It would not surprise me if some converted Catholics don't fondly reminisce on their past spiritual lives. 

There is no need to maintain these false strictures upon the Church, yourself, or others.  Finding more truth does not negate the truths already found.  There is no diminishing of truth, but a path we all tread to greater truth.

So can it be said that those LDS who leave the Church and join other Christian churches are likewise finding "a better path", and to the degree that they feel the spirit in their new church, they are "doing what God would have them do"?

[Storm Rider]

7 hours ago, cinepro said:

So can it be said that those LDS who leave the Church and join other Christian churches are likewise finding "a better path", and to the degree that they feel the spirit in their new church, they are "doing what God would have them do"?

I would say "yes", they have found a path that fits them.  It may not be a path of more truth, but it is a path of truth that matches the degree of truth they are comfortable living.  I would also agree that God is happy with anyone that is able to live the truth they have been given, understood, and accepted.  

A truth that is not accepted does not indicate it is not true; it indicates that it has not been accepted and not lived. 

I think of this situation as the servant that has been given two talents by his master and they have the opportunity to return five talents to his Master. 

[Sleeper Cell]

18 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Do I? I grew up in Middle East, among good people (give & take balances out like here in US). But religion of Islam? Has very little of defensible/good parts in it....Heeck if you start inspecting Christianity from Old Testament it would look like a Terror from Hell too..... 

Doesn’t your statement that Islam has “very little of defensible/good parts in it” amount to an admission that it does have some defensible/good parts in it?  Sort of makes Islam a bad example for your argument against the idea that all religions have some truth, don't you think?   

BTW, in my opinion, Islam has many good parts in it.  But that is a different discussion. 

[cdowis]

10 hours ago, cinepro said:

So can it be said that those LDS who leave the Church and join other Christian churches are likewise finding "a better path", and to the degree that they feel the spirit in their new church, they are "doing what God would have them do"?

This was the opinion of LeGrande Richards, in his biography.  Someone was complaining and talking about leaving the church, and that was the advice he gave them == to find another church which would help him in his progress, since we had failed him.

[Damien the Leper]

16 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Don't stretch me, bro, don't stretch me!  Within Wicca there is a common belief in the soul of each individual that remains after death; an understanding that our actions have consequences for good or ill - it is not a moral tradition of sin, but it is a good foundation upon which to build. The do recognize a God or eternal force in the universe, which is also a foundation upon which to build a more accurate understanding of God the Father and his role in our creation and purpose for being.

The Oneness Pentecostals have a good foundation of teachings on the God of Israel, in the process of salvation through Jesus Christ - repentance, baptism, and the importance of being born spiritually.  They understand that baptism of children has no merit or purpose; that with baptism an individual should commit and reflect their commitment through living a holy life.  

I really don't think there is a religion or church that we cannot find many, many good things which they teach and live.  I believe that we as a people and as a church can learn something from the vast majority of them.  GBH said it best by bring what good you have and let us add to it.  We make it sweeter, fuller, and add depth in places that did not exist.  In their bringing of truth and good things to us we gain by learning the same things that they learn from us just in different areas. 

Well done, sir. Well done.

[cinepro]

2 hours ago, cdowis said:

This was the opinion of LeGrande Richards, in his biography.  Someone was complaining and talking about leaving the church, and that was the advice he gave them == to find another church which would help him in his progress, since we had failed him.

It would be amazing to see that ever expressed publicly by a Church leader.  I think the idea that the LDS Church isn't the ultimate expression of God's doctrine and ordinances, but it just one of many equally valuable choices that God may lead people to would be a huge shift for many LDS.

[cdowis]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

It would be amazing to see that ever expressed publicly by a Church leader.  I think the idea that the LDS Church isn't the ultimate expression of God's doctrine and ordinances, but it just one of many equally valuable choices that God may lead people to would be a huge shift for many LDS.

Here is the context of that remark, as I remember it.  He was the mission president for the Southern States, and was visiting various units to help strengthen them.  After hearing about this situation from the member, this was the advice he gave him.  Basically, if you are going to leave the church, be sure to go to one where they can help you better than we have.

It has been decades since I have read his biography, and it still stays with me today.  It really had a profound effect on my understanding  on the Lord's relationship with His children.  Make the world better in many ways, not just by converting others to the LDS church.  If you can help someone get out of the telestial kingdom to a terrestrial way of  life, we have done a very good thing.

[cinepro]

1 hour ago, cdowis said:

Here is the context of that remark, as I remember it.  He was the mission president for the Southern States, and was visiting various units to help strengthen them.  After hearing about this situation from the member, this was the advice he gave him.  Basically, if you are going to leave the church, be sure to go to one where they can help you better than we have.

It has been decades since I have read his biography, and it still stays with me today.  It really had a profound effect on my understanding  on the Lord's relationship with His children.  Make the world better in many ways, not just by converting others to the LDS church.  If you can help someone get out of the telestial kingdom to a terrestrial way of  life, we have done a very good thing.

This reminds me of when my son was 11 or 12 and told me he didn't want to go to church anymore.  I said that was fine with me, but he wasn't going to sit around in his pajamas playing video games on Sunday mornings.  He had a spiritual side that needed nourishment just as much as his physical body did, and if he wanted to stop going to our Church he would have to come up with another way to nourish his spiritual side that is as good or better (attend another church, volunteer at a soup kitchen etc.)  He never took me up on it and begrudgingly kept going with us to Church. 

But now that he's off at college he doesn't go anymore and sits around on Sunday mornings (if he's awake) playing video games.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

This reminds me of when my son was 11 or 12 and told me he didn't want to go to church anymore.  I said that was fine with me, but he wasn't going to sit around in his pajamas playing video games on Sunday mornings.  He had a spiritual side that needed nourishment just as much as his physical body did, and if he wanted to stop going to our Church he would have to come up with another way to nourish his spiritual side that is as good or better (attend another church, volunteer at a soup kitchen etc.)  He never took me up on it and begrudgingly kept going with us to Church. 

But now that he's off at college he doesn't go anymore and sits around on Sunday mornings (if he's awake) playing video games.

Hopefully it'll be like the college freshman that ate only brownie batter for a week and ended up in the hospital.  After that, she learned for herself the importance of good nourishment.

[theplains]

On 01/09/2016 at 1:38 AM, Sleeper Cell said:

Wasn’t MFB referring specifically to those who “do not fully understand?”  How can a person be said to "knowingly reject" something which he doesn’t fully understand?  

(Well, as a Mormon, I am not worried about the possibility that Islam is “the correct way.“  Even if Islam turns out to be “the correct way” the doctrine of my incorrect church will still trump “the correct way”)  

In the case of Islam's message, it is easy to fully understand. If it is the correct way, then one is hell-bound if you
believe or teach Jesus is the Son of God. This includes Mormons, Evangelicals, Catholics, etc.

Your last statement doesn't make sense. Some of the key doctrines of Mormonism are incompatible with Islam.
For one, the Quran denies the death and resurrection of Christ.

Regards,
Jim

[waveslider]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

In the case of Islam's message, it is easy to fully understand. If it is the correct way, then one is hell-bound if you
believe or teach Jesus is the Son of God. This includes Mormons, Evangelicals, Catholics, etc.

Your last statement doesn't make sense. Some of the key doctrines of Mormonism are incompatible with Islam.
For one, the Quran denies the death and resurrection of Christ.

Regards,
Jim

Here's an interesting conversion from Muslim to Christian, through study from the Quran, so maybe Islam's message is capable of being fully understood as leading to Christ, the key words being fully understood:
https://youtu.be/TsMccnb_270

 

[Sleeper Cell]

On Saturday, September 03, 2016 at 0:19 PM, theplains said:

In the case of Islam's message, it is easy to fully understand. If it is the correct way, then one is hell-bound if you
believe or teach Jesus is the Son of God. This includes Mormons, Evangelicals, Catholics, etc.

Your last statement doesn't make sense. Some of the key doctrines of Mormonism are incompatible with Islam.
For one, the Quran denies the death and resurrection of Christ.

You missed the point.  The very fact that some of the key doctrines of Mormonism are incompatible with Islam is precisely why the Mormon belief in a “second chance” in the afterlife could not possibly give a Mormon any hope (false or otherwise) that they would get a second chance in the event Islam turns out is the “correct faith.”  

If Islam turns out to be the “correct faith” the doctrines of Islam would prevail in the afterlife, not the doctrines of Mormonism.  I find it difficult to believe that any Mormon would argue otherwise. 

In short, this particular doctrine gives no hope, whatsoever, to Mormons with respect to their own salvation.  If the LDS church is the “correct faith," this doctrine is unnecessary.  If it is not, it is irrelevant.  

This doctrine does give hope to Mormons with respect to the salvation of non-Mormons.  How can such a hope possibly be “dangerous” to Mormons? 

Edited September 4, 2016 by Sleeper Cell

[theplains]

On 04/09/2016 at 1:02 AM, Sleeper Cell said:

You missed the point.  ...

This doctrine does give hope to Mormons with respect to the salvation of non-Mormons.  How can such a hope possibly be “dangerous” to Mormons? 

If the LDS teaching of a second chance after death is wrong and God is not an exalted man, then its dangerous for Mormons
to worship a false god and to find this out after they die.  If on the other hand, God really is an exalted man but I refuse to
worship him, then I am lost.

Regards,
Jim

[Sleeper Cell]

3 hours ago, theplains said:

If the LDS teaching of a second chance after death is wrong and God is not an exalted man, then its dangerous for Mormons
to worship a false god and to find this out after they die.  If on the other hand, God really is an exalted man but I refuse to
worship him, then I am lost.

Except that is not what you said originally.  You said that “saying you have another chance in the afterlife is one of the most dangerous teachings out there because it gives you a false sense of hope.”  You made no mention of the nature of God, whatsoever.  Nor did you mention any other doctrine.  

Once again, how can the Mormon belief in a “second chance” for non-Mormons, in and of itself, possibly be dangerous to Mormons?   Do you honestly believe that God will condemn Mormons for not believing that God will condemn all non-Mormons?   

Whether or not other Mormon beliefs are “dangerous to Mormons” is a separate discussion.  

[theplains]

On 05/09/2016 at 5:16 PM, Sleeper Cell said:

Once again, how can the Mormon belief in a “second chance” for non-Mormons, in and of itself, possibly be dangerous to Mormons?   Do you honestly believe that God will condemn Mormons for not believing that God will condemn all non-Mormons?

If the doctrine is false, false teachers will be punished.  Even Mormons who do not reach exaltation will be considered
condemned themselves because they will not have eternal increase nor live with their 'supposed' heavenly parents.

Regards,
Jim

[Sleeper Cell]

On Wednesday, September 07, 2016 at 3:29 PM, theplains said:

If the doctrine is false, false teachers will be punished.  Even Mormons who do not reach exaltation will be considered
condemned themselves because they will not have eternal increase nor live with their 'supposed' heavenly parents.

But, from your point of view, aren’t Mormons already going to be punished for their other “false doctrines” regardless of their belief in a “second chance” for non-Mormons?  

Do you really believe that God will punish Mormons more for believing in something that could only benefit non-Mormons?  Do you really believe that God would punish Mormons less had they believed that all non-Mormons were going to hell?  

[cdowis]

del

Edited September 10, 2016 by cdowis