What is the most difficult thing about being Mormon?

[Tacenda]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Me too.

I have been given this info which makes it sound even more unlikely as well as good advice if it is the extremely rare case of happening:

the auditors at the Stake level will independently review all the records. If the bishop did anything even remotely related to giving money to himself the audits should find it. Any check benefiting the bishop would need to be signed by others, who would either be clerks or counselors.

 

Second, if he suspects collusion on the part of the Stake President, he can call church headquarters and ask to speak to the office of the presiding bishopric and they can investigate the report.

Still waiting for the new person to report back, maybe he can't because he's in a witness protection program.

[Stargazer]

On 9/19/2016 at 10:20 AM, Calm said:

Embezzlement of church funds is covered in the handbook, requires a permanent annotation on someone's records.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-discipline

It would have to be pretty callous leaders to excuse such behaviour, to not even look into it even if the bishop protested if only to protect the guy's reputation.  And the three all being cousins if by that he means 1st or 2nd cousins (does any count any further as cousins?) does seem quite a stretch as well, 3 close relatives being bishop, stake president, area president.  If Captain Moroni is willing enough to come on a random message board and complain, it seems to me he should be reporting it directly to SLC which would likely get auditors and others who are not relatives involved and if it was really embezzlement and not just a poor call for using church funds, I don't see it as likely the bishop would have got a pass.

As a former financial clerk, I know that an auditor assigned by the stake audits each ward's finances twice per year.  How could a bishop embezzle church funds?  Bishops don't generally participate in processing donations, so it seems that any bishop who embezzles would do it in the next most likely way -- by submitting reimbursement requests that are falsely attributed to expenses incurred for ward business.  Since the bishop is supposed to approve every expenditure by his signature, every expenditure is by definition an authorized ward expenditure.  Which means that a bishop embezzling that way is probably submitting his private grocery shopping receipts for reimbursement.  Or perhaps it just looks like that?

A persistent pattern of suspicious reimbursements would soon cause an auditor to question what was going on.  For one thing.

For another, what about the ward budget?  The amount of money the ward is allocated each quarter depends upon both tithing faithfulness of the ward members and the count of those members attending sacrament meeting.  Each organization is allocated a certain share of the received funds, and can only spend more if it comes out of some other organization's budget.  The only fund for which ward is permitted to go into the red is the Fast Offering fund, and a red flag is raised if the FO recipient is the bishop -- if I recall correctly, a bishop's receiving of FO funds must be approved by the Stake President.

The Church has long experience with dealing with peculation, and has methods in place to deal with it.  This is why I am skeptical of Captain Moroni's claim.

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by Stargazer

[Daniel2]

I know this won't be the most popular answer in this thread, but for me, the hardest thing about being Mormon was the weight of being unable to trust myself and my own thoughts, feelings, and emotions... As a gay man who was continually taught not to trust my own instincts in deference to "those that knew better," it was a struggle to try to continually trust that others new myself, my capabilities, my heart, my intentions, the level of my selfishness/selflessness, etc.  It was like receiving conflicting accounts... I was to search, ponder, and pray to know what is real, but when I searched, pondered, and prayed, I ended up continually having thoughts and feelings and impressions that I was gay and that I was doing it wrong... When I shared those answers with my bishop, I was assured that those feelings were Satan trying to lead me astray.  The ultimate message was: nothing I was feeling, no self-identity with personality aspects or traits that many people take for granted, could be trusted.  My heart was incapable of personal revelation, since it always seemed to lead me to the wrong answers (since they conflicted with the church's). 

In all honestly, I loved so many aspects of Mormonism, and I sooooooo wanted it to be true for such a long time.  I learned to hate myself and all the authentic emotional, spiritual, intellectual and physical intimacy that my heart longed for.  To fear the inclinations of my heart, mind, and soul.  To doubt myself.  That was the hardest part, and it took years for me to process that once I left. 

Life is good now.  I have made peace with my past.  I don't resent those bishops who were doing the best they knew how, with what they knew, coupled with their own personal experience.  If I had been straight like they were, their advice should have worked.  I think they just didn't have any clue how to put themselves in my position. It was inconceivable to them that the promises of change that they were advocating (that I would become straight if I just acted like I was straight--if I just went through the motions long enough and trusted and prayed and attended the temple and engaged in intimate relations with my then-wife) simply weren't effective or possible, in my case.  In my life, I have found that radical acceptance and surrender to the principles of the serenity prayer have been foundational and life-changing; discovering the serenity to accept the things that one cannot change, the courage to change the things one can, and the wisdom to know the difference. 

My story isn't everyone's story, and it doesn't have to be.  Others have different capabilities and abilities, and I've developed a deep reluctance to pre- or mis-judge or condemn anyone for their choices. In the end, I've learned that we all do the best we know how, with the information we're given, and any of us--myself included--would have done better, if we had know better.  Now, I know better, and I try to do better.  I love myself.  I love my husband and our kids and grandkids.  I love my LDS family, friends, and neighbors exactly as they are without any expectation that they should accommodate a change in belief.  And that's been the secret to my happiness...

[mong00se]

On 8/26/2016 at 9:09 PM, cdowis said:

The sense of absolute  certitude, lack of humility,  impatience with those who "just don't get it" even among members of the church.

This for me as well

[cdowis]

16 minutes ago, mong00se said:

This for me as well

I was describing myself, of course.

[mong00se]

5 minutes ago, cdowis said:

I was describing myself, of course.

My mistake, I misunderstood your post.  I didn't mean to say that I find you difficult.  I too lack the humility, but I guess I would be one of those who you would lack patience with.  I find myself faltering on certain issues, things aren't black and white for me like they used to be and I have a hard time reconciling the churches stances, and the retrenching of policy and views with those of my own.  This is difficult because I want to be understood and I want my feelings understood but I find that many in my own family put up barriers to understanding and mutual respect.    

[Monster]

Believing

[Kenngo1969]

Dealing with the idea that God isn't Santa Claus.  Implicitly or explicitly, some in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints tend to try to draw a direct causation line between righteousness and blessings.  Granted, no one has told me, straight-out and to my face, that, "Well, Ken, the reason why you haven't gotten Blessing (B) is because you haven't kept Commandment (C) well enough ..."  Even if no one has said so explicitly, I often wonder that myself.  What is my standing before God?  Yes, I could and should do a lot of things better, but ... couldn't (and shouldn't) everybody?  Is there some reason beyond mortality's normal vicissitudes why certain blessings don't seem to be forthcoming?  It seems to be a tremendous, continuous, struggle to refuse to be defined by what I lack, but ... I struggle on. What else can I do?

 

[Jeanne]

16 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Dealing with the idea that God isn't Santa Claus.  Implicitly or explicitly, some in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints tend to try to draw a direct causation line between righteousness and blessings.  Granted, no one has told me, straight-out and to my face, that, "Well, Ken, the reason why you haven't gotten Blessing (B) is because you haven't kept Commandment (C) well enough ..."  Even if no one has said so explicitly, I often wonder that myself.  What is my standing before God?  Yes, I could and should do a lot of things better, but ... couldn't (and shouldn't) everybody?  Is there some reason beyond mortality's normal vicissitudes why certain blessings don't seem to be forthcoming?  It seems to be a tremendous, continuous, struggle to refuse to be defined by what I lack, but ... I struggle on. What else can I do?

 

Just accept our love for you...whatever you feel you are lacking..you have loads of everything else that is good.  I am not Santa Clause..but I can give you friendship and hope and those endless Jeanne hugs..  Accept your gracious and intelligent self and wrap a bow around it.  You are a gift.