Moroni

[snowflake]

I am trying to understand how the mortal man Moroni became an angel. What is the LDS teaching of how this happens?

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, snowflake said:

I am trying to understand how the mortal man Moroni became an angel. What is the LDS teaching of how this happens?

From the Guide to the Scriptures:

Quote

There are two kinds of beings in heaven who are called angels: those who are spirits and those who have bodies of flesh and bone. Angels who are spirits have not yet obtained a body of flesh and bone, or they are spirits who have once had a mortal body and are awaiting resurrection. Angels who have bodies of flesh and bone have either been resurrected from the dead or translated.

Moroni would be one of the latter embodied angels. Does that help?

[jkwilliams]

And there's this:

Section 129

Instructions given by Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, February 9, 1843, making known three grand keys by which the correct nature of ministering angels and spirits may be distinguished.

1–3, There are both resurrected and spirit bodies in heaven; 4–9, Keys are given whereby messengers from beyond the veil may be identified.

1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely:Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—

 2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.

 4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.

 5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.

 6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—

 7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.

 8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will notfeel anything; you may therefore detect him.

 9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.

[snowflake]

Quote

JKW.....Am I correct when I assume that "heaven" is the same place as the "pre-mortal existence"?

 

[smac97]

The Church teaches that Moroni was resurrected, not translated (see here and here).  I'm not immediately sure if this is a revealed concept, or if it a preferred assumption (the other being that he was translated).  Either way, however, he must have a physical body.  See D&C 27:5:

Quote

Behold, this is wisdom in me; wherefore, marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon...

An angel without a physical body could not, I imagine, "drink of the fruit of the fine . . . on the earth."  

I suppose God could have sent a translated Moroni, but I had previously understood that "translated" beings are those who are permitted to tarry on the earth (John, The Three Nephites, and perhaps others).  However, such being have apparently not yet been taken into the "presence of God."  See here (emphases added):

Quote

In fulfillment of Enoch’s vision of what was to occur, the scriptures record of this mighty prophet and his people: “It came to pass that Zion was not, for God received it up into his own bosom; and from thence went forth the saying, ZION IS FLED“ (Moses 7:69).

These early faithful Saints had been translated. Through the Prophet Joseph Smith, we understand something of the translated state. The Prophet told the Saints that translation belongs to “the powers of the Priesthood and the keys thereof” and that it is one of the “many things … that have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world; they are hid from the wise and prudent to be revealed in the last times” (History of the Church, 4:209). He went on to explain that translated beings are not taken into the presence of God. “Their place of habitation is that of the terrestrial order, and a place prepared for such characters He [God] held in reserve to be ministering angels unto many planets, and who as yet have not entered into so great a fullness as those who are resurrected from the dead.” The Prophet continued: “Translation obtains deliverance from the tortures and sufferings of the body, but their existence will prolong as to the labors and toils of the ministry, before they can enter into so great a rest and glory” (4:210).

We are specifically told that Moroni had been sent to Joseph Smith "from the presence of God" (JS-H 1:33), so I think the Church's position - that he was/is a resurrected being rather than a translated one - is likely correct.

Thanks,

-Smac

[jkwilliams]

12 minutes ago, snowflake said:

JKW.....Am I correct when I assume that "heaven" is the same place as the "pre-mortal existence"?

According to the GS, it could mean either the premortal life or postmortal life. 

[JLHPROF]

What's to understand?
The word angel (pronounced /ˈeɪn.dʒəl/) in English is a blend of Old English engel (with a hard g) and Old French angele.[5] Both derive from Late Latin angelus "messenger", which in turn was borrowed from Late Greek ἄνγελος ángelos.

Moroni became an angel when God decided to use him as a messenger.
That's all angels are - messengers from God.

[RevTestament]

24 minutes ago, smac97 said:

The Church teaches that Moroni was resurrected, not translated (see here and here).  I'm not immediately sure if this is a revealed concept, or if it a preferred assumption (the other being that he was translated).  Either way, however, he must have a physical body.  See D&C 27:5:

An angel without a physical body could not, I imagine, "drink of the fruit of the fine . . . on the earth."  

I suppose God could have sent a translated Moroni, but I had previously understood that "translated" beings are those who are permitted to tarry on the earth (John, The Three Nephites, and perhaps others).  However, such being have apparently not yet been taken into the "presence of God."  See here (emphases added):

We are specifically told that Moroni had been sent to Joseph Smith "from the presence of God" (JS-H 1:33), so I think the Church's position - that he was/is a resurrected being rather than a translated one - is likely correct.

Thanks,

-Smac

Moroni is one of the 12,000 of Mannaseh. Therefore, it is likely he was translated like Moses in order that He could accomplish the work the Lord still had for him.

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, JLHPROF said:

What's to understand?
The word angel (pronounced /ˈeɪn.dʒəl/) in English is a blend of Old English engel (with a hard g) and Old French angele.[5] Both derive from Late Latin angelus "messenger", which in turn was borrowed from Late Greek ἄνγελος ángelos.

Moroni became an angel when God decided to use him as a messenger.
That's all angels are - messengers from God.

My guess is that he's coming at this from an orthodox perspective, which treats angels as a different class of beings from humans. It's only in that sense that I understand his question.

[smac97]

5 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Moroni is one of the 12,000 of Mannaseh. Therefore, it is likely he was translated like Moses in order that He could accomplish the work the Lord still had for him.

Hmm.  Perhaps Moroni was translated, then resurrected.  Perhaps it's not an either/or situation.

Thanks,

-Smac

[ksfisher]

7 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Moroni is one of the 12,000 of Mannaseh. Therefore, it is likely he was translated like Moses in order that He could accomplish the work the Lord still had for him.

Sounds like a Jehovah's Witness/Mormon mash-up doctrine.

[snowflake]

7 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

What's to understand?
The word angel (pronounced /ˈeɪn.dʒəl/) in English is a blend of Old English engel (with a hard g) and Old French angele.[5] Both derive from Late Latin angelus "messenger", which in turn was borrowed from Late Greek ἄνγελος ángelos.

Moroni became an angel when God decided to use him as a messenger.
That's all angels are - messengers from God.

Is the process that Moroni underwent part of exhaultation or progression toward godhood?  In other words, is becoming an angel something that all faithful LDS will go through on their way to becoming gods?

[jkwilliams]

Just now, ksfisher said:

Sounds like a Jehovah's Witness/Mormon mash-up doctrine.

That would be 144,000 and something about 1914, IIRC.

[RevTestament]

1 hour ago, snowflake said:

I am trying to understand how the mortal man Moroni became an angel. What is the LDS teaching of how this happens?

Hi Snowflake. Angel is from the Greek Angelos  and just means messenger. The Greek word was used exactly as the Hebrew word Malak which means messenger. In Daniel Gabriel is called "the man." Angels are not specially created creatures exempt from coming to earth.

[snowflake]

35 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

According to the GS, it could mean either the premortal life or postmortal life. 

Yes, but are they considered to be two different places? Are spirits who have had their chance on earth (received a body) in the same place as those spirits waiting to receive their bodies? (pre-existence).

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, snowflake said:

Yes, but are they considered to be two different places? Are spirits who have had their chance on earth (received a body) in the same place as those spirits waiting to receive their bodies? (pre-existence).

My understanding was always that the premortal life was with God, wherever it is that He dwells (nigh unto Kolob, as it were), whereas the spirit world is here on Earth. I could be wrong, though.

[RevTestament]

7 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Sounds like a Jehovah's Witness/Mormon mash-up doctrine.

Nope. Straight from Revelation 7:6.

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, snowflake said:

I am trying to understand how the mortal man Moroni became an angel. What is the LDS teaching of how this happens?

Are you asking how a man who died after Christ's resurrection, appears to be an angel with a  resurrected body?

[ksfisher]

4 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Nope. Straight from Revelation 7:6.

I don't see Moroni mentioned in Revelation 7:6.  Identifying him with these verses would seem to be an assumption.  Asserting that Moroni was a translated being would also seem to be an assumption.

[RevTestament]

21 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Hmm.  Perhaps Moroni was translated, then resurrected.  Perhaps it's not an either/or situation.

Thanks,

-Smac

I don't believe translated beings are resurrected, although like the 3 Nephites they can receive further bodily perfection at the general time of resurrection. The next general resurrection is per Daniel 12 as prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 25.

Edited July 18, 2016 by RevTestament

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

I don't see Moroni mentioned in Revelation 7:6.  Identifying him with these verses would seem to be an assumption.  Asserting that Moroni was a translated being would also seem to be an assumption.

I think he means that since the BofM says the Nephites were descended from Manasseh, Moroni would be counted among those 12,000.

[JLHPROF]

18 minutes ago, snowflake said:

Is the process that Moroni underwent part of exhaultation or progression toward godhood?  In other words, is becoming an angel something that all faithful LDS will go through on their way to becoming gods?

Not necessarily.  Not anymore than every member needs to be a Bishop.
 

[ksfisher]

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I think he means that since the BofM says the Nephites were descended from Manasseh, Moroni would be counted among those 12,000.

I was going to answer, but that would take us far afield from the OP. 

[RevTestament]

6 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I don't see Moroni mentioned in Revelation 7:6.  Identifying him with these verses would seem to be an assumption.  Asserting that Moroni was a translated being would also seem to be an assumption.

Saying he is a resurrected being before the next general resurrection seems like a much bigger assumption imho.

Of course you don't see any of the prophets named in that section of Revelation. That does not mean they are not among the 12,000 of their respective tribes. Moroni definitely is.

[ksfisher]

And as a complete aside from anything in the OP, our next family scripture study will start with Moroni 7:6.  The cosmos is aligned.