The horrific inconsistency

[Freedom]

17 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Are you kidding? Let's start from Galileo.....He (Cardinal) didn't even blink an eye throwing him under the bus..But of course everything started very, very wrong from the book of Genesis on, flat Earth. standing four corners of pillars, creation story of plants, Adam, Eve....persecution of science in middle ages...History is full of it...

If you studied the world history it sticks out like a sore thumb in every level......

What sticks out is your compete ignorance of how ancient civilizations wrote. You are imposing modern literary standards on an ancient civilization. God has never taught science, he has always taught to the level of the student. Flat earth is what the people understood, so the gospel was taught according to their knowledge. If you understood the culture, you would understand the text. If God were to come down today, he would not use 28th century understanding of the cosmos to teach us, he would use early 21st century understandings. He couches his gospel in the context of the listener. This is called common sense. 

 

[Freedom]

8 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Great.

Scripture is not about anything anybody can utilize, it is a huge waste of time.......Tell me what part of it can help me, since you are throwing it's defenders under the bus...Why shouldn't I throw it's defenders now? 

What good it is collecting thousands of people in (otherwise) completely useless buildings that only serves to make me pay more taxes? I work for a living, everybody around me work they generate something....I don't see organized religion doing it (except sucking the money & energy without any return).

Ya, I bought a biology text book and it had lousy Christmas gift ideas. What  waist of time. So I went and bought a joke book looking for excel spreadsheet tips. Nothing. So I picked up a Harry Potter book expecting photos of African elephants. Nothing. Books are not about anything anybody can utilize. You are filled with all sorts of silly logic. 

[saemo]

18 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Are you kidding? Let's start from Galileo.....He (Cardinal) didn't even blink an eye throwing him under the bus..But of course everything started very, very wrong from the book of Genesis on, flat Earth. standing four corners of pillars, creation story of plants, Adam, Eve....persecution of science in middle ages...History is full of it...

If you studied the world history it sticks out like a sore thumb in every level......

 

Galileo's apponents were in the science community, astronomers who viewed his science as not fully proven via science. Galileo was also a Roman Catholic...a religious person. He did not run into any problems with the RCC until he published what was viewed as personal insults against the Pope. He then lost the support of RCC groups, such as the Jesuits. Who were not against his science, they were his supporters, but they did not want to be associated to his writings against the Pope. 

The scientific method came from religious educational institutions, from religious believers, in religious countries, etc. The religious institutions of universities, were established by religious orders.  Yes it is amazing that those  religious men could come up with rigorous thought and method, and institutions from which to teach them, being so inherently blind and ignorant, and all that. 😳

I recommend going beyond pop history, for history.  And discover what does not have the attached bias of competing religious institutions (the Reformers) or competing anti-religious ideologies (the atheists). Drop the religion is the bogeyman of history! It is a false perception of history with absolutely none of that skepticism I'd expect to see in such rigorous skeptics.

Edited June 23, 2016 by saemo

[Atheist Mormon]

9 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Yawn.  

Do you write all these replies ahead of time and then just pick them at random?

Please try to work on some new material.

Nope.....Try to respond the subject and by all means tell us what part of it is absurd.

[Atheist Mormon]

7 hours ago, Freedom said:

What sticks out is your compete ignorance of how ancient civilizations wrote. You are imposing modern literary standards on an ancient civilization. God has never taught science, he has always taught to the level of the student. Flat earth is what the people understood, so the gospel was taught according to their knowledge. If you understood the culture, you would understand the text. If God were to come down today, he would not use 28th century understanding of the cosmos to teach us, he would use early 21st century understandings. He couches his gospel in the context of the listener. This is called common sense. 

 

It is very obvious, religion always clashed with progress, when you say "gospel was taught according to their knowledge." this not true at all, when time came to discard earth centric view, the Cardinals & Pope put the Galileo in house arrest, they did not want knowledge spreading.....Europe's living in dark ages for centuries was made possible by Catholic power..... 

[Atheist Mormon]

10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Yawn.  

Do you write all these replies ahead of time and then just pick them at random?

Please try to work on some new material.

"Yawn" ...This is what I used to say desperately, week after week attending those meetings which was slowly killing my brain cells, but I got out before being declared brain-dead.

"Do you write all these replies ahead of time and then just pick them at random?"

As for this, I confess...I have (I think) ADHD, so much so, in my Man-Cave I cannot concentrate on one display, I have four large screen TV's and (make it five) and two computer screens, I feel somehow satisfied. I don't give more than three minutes into my short compositions, but if you find anything out of substance or unrealistic...please (by all means) quote them, I'd be glad to retract if I find it unreasonable. 

[Freedom]

1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said:

It is very obvious, religion always clashed with progress, when you say "gospel was taught according to their knowledge." this not true at all, when time came to discard earth centric view, the Cardinals & Pope put the Galileo in house arrest, they did not want knowledge spreading.....Europe's living in dark ages for centuries was made possible by Catholic power..... 

What does this have to do with God teaching the gospel according to their knowledge? The time you are referring was during the apostasy. Again, your logic is flawed. 

[mfbukowski]

57 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

"Yawn" ...This is what I used to say desperately, week after week attending those meetings which was slowly killing my brain cells, but I got out before being declared brain-dead.

"Do you write all these replies ahead of time and then just pick them at random?"

As for this, I confess...I have (I think) ADHD, so much so, in my Man-Cave I cannot concentrate on one display, I have four large screen TV's and (make it five) and two computer screens, I feel somehow satisfied. I don't give more than three minutes into my short compositions, but if you find anything out of substance or unrealistic...please (by all means) quote them, I'd be glad to retract if I find it unreasonable. 

As far as I am concerned you have written one sentence about God and all the rest repeats the same rant against God.  "Don't give your money to the sky daddy" and then your insecurity forces you to brag about your stuff.  Every post is identical.  That is your big gift to the world

Yawn.  

Concentrate hard and get another sentence

 

Edited June 23, 2016 by mfbukowski

[Daniel2]

On ‎6‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 0:54 PM, bluebell said:

The American College of Pediatricians has come out stating that it is harmful to teach children that they can choose their gender.

Here is the article.

From Wiki:

Quote

The American College of Pediatricians (ACPeds) is a small, socially conservative advocacy group of pediatricians and other healthcare professionals in the United States.^[1]

The group was founded in 2002 by a group of pediatricians, including Joseph Zanga, a past president of the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), as a protest against the AAP's support for adoption by gay couples.^[2][3] The group's membership has been estimated at between 60 and 200 members,^[2][4] in contrast to the AAP's over 60,000 members.^[5]

And from Think Progress, here:

Quote

Hate Group Masquerading As Pediatricians Attacks Transgender Youth

by Zack Ford Mar 22, 2016 10:18 am

CREDIT: American College of Pediatricians

The American College of Pediatricians (ACP), which utilizes the totally convincing slogan “Best for Children,” has issued a new position statement claiming that respecting transgender children’s identities causes them harm and conservative groups are already latching onto it.

If the claim sounds peculiar, it’s because it’s a claim completely refuted by all available scientific evidence. It’s also because the ACP is not a legitimate medical organization; its name is designed to be mistaken for the American Academy of Pediatrics, which is a national organization with some 60,000 members. The ACP, by contrast, is estimated to have no more than 200 members, and it has been designated a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center for its anti-LGBT positions.

“The American College of Pediatricians urges educators and legislators to reject all policies that condition children to accept as normal a life of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex,” the statement reads. “Facts – not ideology – determine reality.” The “facts” that follow actually reflect a social conservative ideology that rejects the very reality of what transgender children experience.

For example, the statement not-so-subtly concludes that all transgender people must be mentally ill. “A person’s belief that he or she is something they are not is, at best, a sign of confused thinking,” the statement reads. “When an otherwise healthy biological boy believes he is a girl, or an otherwise healthy biological girl believes she is a boy, an objective psychological problem exists that lies in the mind not the body, and it should be treated as such.”

The 36,000-member American Psychiatric Association, which defines mental illnesses through its Diagnostics and Statistics Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), says the exact opposite, explaining, “It is important to note that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder.” It is only distress associated with such an identity that should be treated — and treated with affirmation.

The statement also relies on several myths about transgender people that have been debunked. For example, it reiterates the desistance myth, the claim that most “gender confused” children “eventually accept their biological sex after naturally passing through puberty.” This is a claim based on research that conflated children with some gender-variant behavior with children who actually asserted a different gender. The children in those studies who “desisted” in their identities were the kids who weren’t actually transgender to begin with. A recent study found that trans kids whose parents embrace their identities are as happy and healthy as their peers.

ACP also claims, “Rates of suicide are twenty times greater among adults who use cross-sex hormones and undergo sex reassignment surgery, even in Sweden which is among the most LGBQT – affirming countries.” The Swedish study so often cited to reinforce this myth didn’t actually find evidence that undergoing surgery contributed to higher suicide rates. Indeed, the lead researcher of that study has specifically spoken out that anybody using it to draw such conclusions is misrepresenting it. A much more compelling connection has been found between suicidal ideation and experiences of discrimination.

As trans activist Brynn Tannehill pointed out in her own debunk of ACP’s statement, it appears to have been spearheaded by Dr. Paul McHugh of Johns Hopkins University. He is one of the only prominent doctors in the country that rejects transgender equality, distorting and rejecting research as is necessary to do so. Conservatives regularly rely on him to prop up their anti-trans talking points and he in turn contributes columns to their publications.

The ACP statement may already be propagating harm. Plenty of conservative publications have already promoted it, taking it at face value to claim that the “transgender agenda” constitutes “child abuse.” Tannehill notes, “I’m also already hearing from parents of transgender children that relatives and people hostile to them in the community are using this position statement to threaten to report them to child protective services and take their children away.”

Conservative advocacy groups are also quickly embracing the statement. For example, the group Stop Common Core in Michigan sent out an alert on Monday using the ACP’s position to rally opposition to guidelines drafted by the Michigan Department of Education that would protect transgender students. The Illinois Family Institute and Wisconsin Family Action (WFA) have also promoted the policy statement. WFA president Julaine Appling praised the statement as coming from a “medical group.”

That happens to be a “medical group” that requires its members to abide by a mission, vision, and values that assert an anti-LGBT, anti-choice, anti-sex agenda in spite of any scientific evidence that might contradict it.

Quote

Edited June 23, 2016 by Daniel2

[Gray]

1 minute ago, Daniel2 said:

From Wiki:

 

 

I've been fooled a couple of times by them. You wouldn't guess from their name that they're actually a conservative advocacy group. Very deceptive name. 

[ERayR]

On 6/20/2016 at 6:12 PM, ALarson said:

I've been reading this topic with interest because we had a similar situation in our ward about 6 months ago and I'm not sure we handled things correctly in hindsight.  I actually don't know for sure what would have been the right way to handle it.

A couple in our ward (who had been completely inactive) began attending church again.  It was apparent from the start that they were not the standard young Mormon couple.   She had different colored hair almost every week (pink, green, purple, etc....I preferred the pink actually ) and he had a lot of tattoos and some piercings.  They were just quirky....but I like quirky and always enjoyed visiting with them.  It always put a smile on my face when I saw them walk in for sacrament meeting.

They had 3 kids and the oldest was a boy who was 6 years old.  He was cute and well behaved and seemed to love primary at first.  Then, one week he showed up with very bright pink glitter polish on his fingernails.  I saw it and just thought, "oh well, his Mom or little sisters were probably putting it on and he wanted it on too".  Not something I would have done with my son, but I just kind of shrugged it off.

Later that Sunday, the Bishop got a call from the Mom saying her son had come home from primary crying because kids were teasing him about his nail polish.  She wanted us to call these kids in with their parents and talk to them.  The Bishop thought that was extreme, but he did talk to the primary president who said she'd prepare a sharing time about not judging, not saying anything that might hurt someone's feelings and so on.

Jump forward a few weeks and this little boy shows up at church wearing a pink tutu.  He was wearing it over his church clothes (and had his nails painted colors as he had since that first week).  It was huge too!  I don't know how anyone could even sit next to him.  Of course we got another call from his Mom complaining that kids had again made fun of him, this time for wearing the tutu.  She then told us that he'd actually wanted to wear a dress, but she'd convinced him to just wear the pink tutu over his regular clothes. She said that her and her husband didn't believe in stunting their kids imaginations or telling them what sex they definitely were as they should figure that out on their own, etc.   

After that week, this little boy continued to wear the tutu every week and then finally wore just a skirt with a shirt.   Well, of course the kids laughed at him (especially the older ones) and teased him.  I know this isn't right to do of course, but how do you handle that?  The Mom wanted us to hold a special meeting with all the primary kids and their parents to chew them out.

I felt awful for the Bishop.  He tried to talk to the parents about how all kids should dress appropriately for church, how some would wear their bathing suit or shorts if they could, etc.  But, the Mom replied with how she thought this would be teaching him to hide who he was sexually if they only allowed him to be himself at home.  His teacher reached out to him over and over again too and of course did all she could to discourage anything the other kids did or said that would hurt him. 

Long story short, they stopped coming to church over this.  I felt awful because I really loved this family.  They have since moved away and I still feel bad about it.  But, I cannot imagine that a parent wouldn't know that kids are going to tease in this situation.  In a perfect world, no one would judge or ridicule, but we all know this world is not perfect.

.

 

Sounds like a case of being their kids buddy instead of a parent.  It is a parents job to teach their kids what is appropriate not supporting their every whim.

[longview]

2 hours ago, Gray said:

I've been fooled a couple of times by them. You wouldn't guess from their name that they're actually a conservative advocacy group. Very deceptive name. 

Why would you be fooled by anybody?  ACP is distinctly different acronym than AAP.  The AMA is also an advocacy organization.  One objective (among several) is to limit the number of medical doctors to obtain licences so as to boost up the salaries of the members.  You should NOT necessarily be more trusting of AAP than of ACP.  Normally people don't go around looking up those professional societies.  If they do, it is more likely they want to research issues about health for themselves or their families.  It is pretty rare for anyone to check the charters'  organizations.  They are more likely to get multiple "hits" on their google search resulting in different societies having different opinions.  Let the marketplace of ideas have FREE reign!

The recent controversy concerning the Obama administration to foist new regulations for LGBT access to bathrooms is another indication of the strange direction our country is headed.  If LGBT make only 2% of the population and if Trans only make a small fraction of the LGBT, why should the government try to coerce the schools and other tax-funded institutions into making "accommodation" for them?  It is abysmally illogical to force the expense of extra bathrooms and to create needless insecurity for little children to have to deal with wacky transgenders (including those that pretend to be Trans).  Target stores are taking a huge hit on their bottom lines because their executives foolishly are opening up their bathrooms to hulking perverts to prey on the innocents (witness several news reports of this occurring several times in the last few weeks).

[Gray]

1 minute ago, longview said:

Why would you be fooled by anybody?  ACP is distinctly different acronym than AAP.  The AMA is also an advocacy organization.  One objective (among several) is to limit the number of medical doctors to obtain licences so as to boost up the salaries of the members.  You should NOT necessarily be more trusting of AAP than of ACP.  Normally people don't go around looking up those professional societies.  If they do, it is more likely they want to research issues about health for themselves or their families.  It is pretty rare for anyone to check the charters'  organizations.  They are more likely to get multiple "hits" on their google search resulting in different societies having different opinions.  Let the marketplace of ideas have FREE reign!

The recent controversy concerning the Obama administration to foist new regulations for LGBT access to bathrooms is another indication of the strange direction our country is headed.  If LGBT make only 2% of the population and if Trans only make a small fraction of the LGBT, why should the government try to coerce the schools and other tax-funded institutions into making "accommodation" for them?  It is abysmally illogical to force the expense of extra bathrooms and to create needless insecurity for little children to have to deal with wacky transgenders (including those that pretend to be Trans).  Target stores are taking a huge hit on their bottom lines because their executives foolishly are opening up their bathrooms to hulking perverts to prey on the innocents (witness several news reports of this occurring several times in the last few weeks).

Wow. 

[Atheist Mormon]

Freedom

What sticks out is your compete ignorance of how ancient civilizations wrote. You are imposing modern literary standards on an ancient civilization. God has never taught science, he has always taught to the level of the student. Flat earth is what the people understood, so the gospel was taught according to their knowledge. If you understood the culture, you would understand the text. If God were to come down today, he would not use 28th century understanding of the cosmos to teach us, he would use early 21st century understandings. He couches his gospel in the context of the listener. This is called common sense. 

What should I do otherwise?

Keep those Scriptures holy, which JudeoChristianity does? you want some sampling?

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests, Kill Witches, Kill Homosexuals, Death for Cursing Parents, Death for Adultery, Death to Followers of Other Religions   Kill False Prophets Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

The list goes on & on..... Would this list look any kinder in 28th century?

[Freedom]

11 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Freedom

What sticks out is your compete ignorance of how ancient civilizations wrote. You are imposing modern literary standards on an ancient civilization. God has never taught science, he has always taught to the level of the student. Flat earth is what the people understood, so the gospel was taught according to their knowledge. If you understood the culture, you would understand the text. If God were to come down today, he would not use 28th century understanding of the cosmos to teach us, he would use early 21st century understandings. He couches his gospel in the context of the listener. This is called common sense. 

What should I do otherwise?

Keep those Scriptures holy, which JudeoChristianity does? you want some sampling?

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests, Kill Witches, Kill Homosexuals, Death for Cursing Parents, Death for Adultery, Death to Followers of Other Religions   Kill False Prophets Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

The list goes on & on..... Would this list look any kinder in 28th century?

Again, you need to put it into the context of the time. What do you know about the condition of the people when these laws were enacted? 

[Atheist Mormon]

16 minutes ago, Freedom said:

Again, you need to put it into the context of the time. What do you know about the condition of the people when these laws were enacted? 

What kind of condition would ever justify these laws?

[Freedom]

39 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

What kind of condition would ever justify these laws?

So let me get this straight, you feel you are qualified to criticize an ancient text when you freely admit that you know nothing of the people, their culture, their language, or their challenges. You cannot apply modern standards on an ancient world. For that matter you cannot impose western standards on the eastern world. this is something the American government gets wrong again and again. If you were to go back to 11th century France and bring along a modern political system thinking you were helping them, you would be very wrong. If you tried to impose modern laws concerning bullying or sexual harassment it would cause more harm than good. When you are correcting the coarse of a massive cargo ship, you do not have the mobility of a jet ski. If you do not know what they were coming from, you cannot judge the morality of the laws that were imposed upon them. A simple reading of the Book of Judges would show you that these people were barbaric. So please stop bringing up these shallow criticisms garnished with piety and self righteousness. It is ignorant and immature. 

[The Nehor]

15 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Freedom

What sticks out is your compete ignorance of how ancient civilizations wrote. You are imposing modern literary standards on an ancient civilization. God has never taught science, he has always taught to the level of the student. Flat earth is what the people understood, so the gospel was taught according to their knowledge. If you understood the culture, you would understand the text. If God were to come down today, he would not use 28th century understanding of the cosmos to teach us, he would use early 21st century understandings. He couches his gospel in the context of the listener. This is called common sense. 

What should I do otherwise?

Keep those Scriptures holy, which JudeoChristianity does? you want some sampling?

Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests, Kill Witches, Kill Homosexuals, Death for Cursing Parents, Death for Adultery, Death to Followers of Other Religions   Kill False Prophets Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

The list goes on & on..... Would this list look any kinder in 28th century?

So you also buy into the discredited Victorian idea that history is on a course of steady improvement in the aggregate? What convinces you that we will not have descended to what we today would call barbarism again or something very different where those laws would not be so odd?

I read a science fiction story a few years back where there was a discussion of rape and it was considered a normal risk of dating for both genders and that prohibiting it was prudish and took the fun out of dating. That sounds outrageous to us and it is because we live in the culture we live in. Do I think this future is likely? Not really. Is there a culture somewhere where it would work and they would look back at us as barbarians? Possibly. Would we know whether it will happen stuck in the lens of our own culture? Absolutely not. Every major cultural shift tends to occur on unexpected lines. The America that ends this century will look back at the partisan debates of our day and disagree with both sides and wonder why we were quibbling over silly trivialities when we were so fundamentally wrong. That is how history generally works.

[Atheist Mormon]

On 6/25/2016 at 0:43 AM, The Nehor said:

So you also buy into the discredited Victorian idea that history is on a course of steady improvement in the aggregate? What convinces you that we will not have descended to what we today would call barbarism again or something very different where those laws would not be so odd?

I read a science fiction story a few years back where there was a discussion of rape and it was considered a normal risk of dating for both genders and that prohibiting it was prudish and took the fun out of dating. That sounds outrageous to us and it is because we live in the culture we live in. Do I think this future is likely? Not really. Is there a culture somewhere where it would work and they would look back at us as barbarians? Possibly. Would we know whether it will happen stuck in the lens of our own culture? Absolutely not. Every major cultural shift tends to occur on unexpected lines. The America that ends this century will look back at the partisan debates of our day and disagree with both sides and wonder why we were quibbling over silly trivialities when we were so fundamentally wrong. That is how history generally works.

Nehor, what I quoted was not my opinion or.........It is in the scriptures.

[Atheist Mormon]

On 6/24/2016 at 9:57 PM, Freedom said:

So let me get this straight, you feel you are qualified to criticize an ancient text when you freely admit that you know nothing of the people, their culture, their language, or their challenges. You cannot apply modern standards on an ancient world. For that matter you cannot impose western standards on the eastern world. this is something the American government gets wrong again and again. If you were to go back to 11th century France and bring along a modern political system thinking you were helping them, you would be very wrong. If you tried to impose modern laws concerning bullying or sexual harassment it would cause more harm than good. When you are correcting the coarse of a massive cargo ship, you do not have the mobility of a jet ski. If you do not know what they were coming from, you cannot judge the morality of the laws that were imposed upon them. A simple reading of the Book of Judges would show you that these people were barbaric. So please stop bringing up these shallow criticisms garnished with piety and self righteousness. It is ignorant and immature. 

If anything I am over qualified (any sane person  for that matter) to criticize these laws....

I don't admit, never admitted I know nothing of the people or their their culture.....Besides, how does subject is relevant of what I know of or what I don't......If they were practicing cannibalism, would that be OK for you? 

[Freedom]

10 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

If anything I am over qualified (any sane person  for that matter) to criticize these laws....

I don't admit, never admitted I know nothing of the people or their their culture.....Besides, how does subject is relevant of what I know of or what I don't......If they were practicing cannibalism, would that be OK for you? 

Perhaps you should edit your post because it does not make a lot of sense. if I had the job of establishing laws for a country of 2,000,000 that practiced cannibalism, the first step I would put in place it to have controls, and over time slowly shift them away from it. It simply is not possible to impose western 21st century standards on other cultures. The laws required to shift a society away from a barbaric practice would have to be equally harsh, find the laws and are not aware of the culture that they regulate, you would assume the laws to be barbaric. Because you do not understand the behavior that is being corrected, you are not qualified to judge the laws. 

[Atheist Mormon]

1 hour ago, Freedom said:

Perhaps you should edit your post because it does not make a lot of sense. if I had the job of establishing laws for a country of 2,000,000 that practiced cannibalism, the first step I would put in place it to have controls, and over time slowly shift them away from it. It simply is not possible to impose western 21st century standards on other cultures. The laws required to shift a society away from a barbaric practice would have to be equally harsh, find the laws and are not aware of the culture that they regulate, you would assume the laws to be barbaric. Because you do not understand the behavior that is being corrected, you are not qualified to judge the laws. 

Freedom, I gave you cannibalism as an example not a fact that I know in those times in Middle East, but I know it was practiced in Soutwest by Anasazis .....Historians are not judges....

 

[Freedom]

1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Freedom, I gave you cannibalism as an example not a fact that I know in those times in Middle East, but I know it was practiced in Soutwest by Anasazis .....Historians are not judges....

 

You keep jumbling your points and ignoring what people are telling you. I used your example of cannibalism so if you had read my response, you would not have made the comments you just made. Go back and read my post.

[Avatar4321]

On 6/23/2016 at 10:41 AM, Freedom said:

What does this have to do with God teaching the gospel according to their knowledge? The time you are referring was during the apostasy. Again, your logic is flawed. 

Logic?

[Avatar4321]

On 6/24/2016 at 9:57 PM, Freedom said:

So let me get this straight, you feel you are qualified to criticize an ancient text when you freely admit that you know nothing of the people, their culture, their language, or their challenges. You cannot apply modern standards on an ancient world. For that matter you cannot impose western standards on the eastern world. this is something the American government gets wrong again and again. If you were to go back to 11th century France and bring along a modern political system thinking you were helping them, you would be very wrong. If you tried to impose modern laws concerning bullying or sexual harassment it would cause more harm than good. When you are correcting the coarse of a massive cargo ship, you do not have the mobility of a jet ski. If you do not know what they were coming from, you cannot judge the morality of the laws that were imposed upon them. A simple reading of the Book of Judges would show you that these people were barbaric. So please stop bringing up these shallow criticisms garnished with piety and self righteousness. It is ignorant and immature. 

I see little evidence that our society isn't barbaric as well