Mormon persecution alive and well at Idaho State U.

[Jim Stiles]

5 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So this board disallowing links to an anti-Mormon site such as MRM is scarcely different than what you are complaining about in this forum.

I am sorry for calling you a name.

My complaint with the LDS Church is that they categorize a certain class of religious literature as Anti-mormon and tell their members not to read such literature.  Sure there is literature out there that is Anti-christian or Anti-evangelical, but I would never tell anyone not to read such literature.

[Jim Stiles]

6 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Have you ever thought that anti-Christ is not any single individual or entity?

The Reformation church thought that the office of pope (i.e. the papacy) was the Antichrist.  They may have been presumptuous in their reasoning.

[Scott Lloyd]

7 hours ago, Jim Stiles said:

I am sorry for calling you a name.

My complaint with the LDS Church is that they categorize a certain class of religious literature as Anti-mormon and tell their members not to read such literature.  Sure there is literature out there that is Anti-christian or Anti-evangelical, but I would never tell anyone not to read such literature.

I'm a lifelong Mormon and have never been told not to read anti-Mormon literature.

(And I never asked for an apology, but thanks just the same.)

Edited June 12, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[jkwilliams]

15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I'm a lifelong Mormon and have never been told not to read anti-Mormon literature.

I have been told that. Either way, the situation at ISU is appalling. 

[Jim Stiles]

4 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

I have been told that. Either way, the situation at ISU is appalling. 

Agreed, but the coaches would have been as bad with players who were evangelical or Roman Catholic or Orthodox, if they were serious about their religion.

[Kenngo1969]

Apologies if someone has already pointed this out.  This may be cold comfort in the moment for anyone who is persecuted, but, of course, in the end, anyone who is persecuted for the cause of Christ will be blessed:

Quote

 

Matthew 5:11-12:

¹¹ Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

¹² Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

 

 

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, Jim Stiles said:

Agreed, but the coaches would have been as bad with players who were evangelical or Roman Catholic or Orthodox, if they were serious about their religion.

And you know that how?

[Jim Stiles]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I'm a lifelong Mormon and have never been told not to read anti-Mormon literature.

 

I have been lead to believe that the question of reading Anti-mormon literature was sometimes asked in Temple Recommend interviews.  Or at least the interviews for becoming a missionary.  Please correct me, if I am wrong.  Bill McKeever has been personally told by LDS members that they do not read Anti-mormon literature.

[Jim Stiles]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

And you know that how?

I have more than 50 years experience dealing with people like the two coaches who were fired.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Jim Stiles said:

I have been lead to believe that the question of reading Anti-mormon literature was sometimes asked in Temple Recommend interviews.  Or at least the interviews for becoming a missionary.  Please correct me, if I am wrong.  Bill McKeever has been personally told by LDS members that they do not read Anti-mormon literature.

never been part of the temple recommend interview since 1980 at least, though a maverick leader might ask it against the rules.

Members choosing to avoid reading what they themselves identify as antimormon literature is different than being told to avoid it. And I have never seen the Church issue anything that identify stuff in as  antimormon or a list of writings to avoid either; haven't looked for it, but think I would have come across it.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

never been part of the temple recommend interview since 1980 at least, though a maverick leader might ask it against the rules.

 

I can extend that back to 1974, which is when I began being interviewed for temple recommends. I can say with reasonable confidence that it has never been part of the standard interview questions.

Quote

Members choosing to avoid reading what they themselves identify as antimormon literature is different than being told to avoid it.

Indeed.

Quote

And I have never seen the Church issue anything that identify stuff in as  antimormon or a list of writings to avoid either; haven't looked for it, but think I would have come across it.

Nor have I.
 

I would say here that while I would condemn certain material that uses sophistry or other deceptive tactics, and while I would point out deficiencies such as quotations and events being taken out of context, and while I would denounce and correct falsehood, and while I might caution someone to be wary of being deceived by such stuff, that is not the same thing as telling someone not to read it.

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

I have been told that.

Who gave you that directive? Was it something institutional from the Church or was it from an overzealous Church member?

 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Jim Stiles said:

I have been lead to believe that the question of reading Anti-mormon literature was sometimes asked in Temple Recommend interviews.  Or at least the interviews for becoming a missionary.  Please correct me, if I am wrong.  

I've never known of it to occur either in a temple recommend interview or an interview to become a missionary.

Quote

Bill McKeever has been personally told by LDS members that they do not read Anti-mormon literature.

As Calm has pointed out, there is a difference between an individual personally making a decision to avoid it and being told by someone else such as a Church leader not to look at it.

Some of us are more or less engaged in debunking anti-Mormon material. One can scarcely do that without knowing what it says.

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, Jim Stiles said:

Agreed, but the coaches would have been as bad with players who were evangelical or Roman Catholic or Orthodox, if they were serious about their religion.

 

1 hour ago, Calm said:

And you know that how?

 

1 hour ago, Jim Stiles said:

I have more than 50 years experience dealing with people like the two coaches who were fired.

I can conceive of something similar being inflicted on anyone who holds to high standards of decency and morality, not just Mormons, in a milieu where such crudeness and bullying is the order of the day.

[Rain]

On Friday, June 03, 2016 at 10:32 AM, Storm Rider said:

I don't have the answers, but some thoughts come to mind.  First, I think there needs to be a meeting of all that participated in the abuse.  The meeting should include a review of what occurred and an explanation of why they felt their actions was acceptable.  Second, a sincere apology should be required and if not observed then that impacts the penalty phase.  Third, I do like the concept of community service - for example, working with LDS youth that are interested in learning to play tennis at a higher level, talking with LDS youth about the sport and its effect on the coaches life, talking with youth groups about how abusing people can happen and how it has impacted the coaches life.  If necessary, a fee may also be assessed if the actions are deemed egregious enough and it is evident that an honest apology is not acceptable or possible. 

The goal is to assist individuals to reform their thinking rather than destroy their lives.  If a coach cannot coach his/her life is destroyed unnecessarily and without any improvement achieved for the individual or society.

We may live in an unfair world, but that should not alleviate our individual responsibility to treat others fairly.   

I would not put my children in this situation just as I would not put my children in a situation similar if sexual abuse had been occurring.  It is one thing to teach them how to deal with it when it happens.  It is another thing to place them in position with a known person who had done it before.  

I might be willing to work with the individuals myself,  but would not place my children there. 

Edited June 12, 2016 by Rain

[Kenngo1969]

20 hours ago, Jim Stiles said:

I have been lead to believe that the question of reading Anti-mormon literature was sometimes asked in Temple Recommend interviews.  Or at least the interviews for becoming a missionary.  Please correct me, if I am wrong.  Bill McKeever has been personally told by LDS members that they do not read Anti-mormon literature.

Being told that members don't do something is a far different thing than being told that members have been told not to do it.

[Kenngo1969]

20 hours ago, Jim Stiles said:

I have more than 50 years experience dealing with people like the two coaches who were fired.

Sounds ... uhhh ... fun. 

[USU78]

On 6/11/2016 at 9:06 PM, Jim Stiles said:

I have been lead to believe that the question of reading Anti-mormon literature was sometimes asked in Temple Recommend interviews.  Or at least the interviews for becoming a missionary.  Please correct me, if I am wrong.  Bill McKeever has been personally told by LDS members that they do not read Anti-mormon literature.

That such a question may have, at some point by some individuals, been asked, and that contrary to policy in the case of temple recommend interviews, if you gossip is to be credited, is hardly the fault of 50 E So Temple, is it?