Jeremy Runnells Excommunicated

[flameburns623]

A bit on hearing aids, cochlear implants, and deafness.

Y'all ever heard a dog whistle?

Congratulations: I never have.

But I can imagine it: a shrill, high- pitched sound right on the periphery of what you can hear.

Someone's bratty little kid has ahold of that dog whistle and he's blowing on it, right now.

One long continuous note.

He never takes a breath, this kid.

And no one can make him stop.

Just. One. Long. Note.

I'm listening to that brat, right now.

He's been blowing on that cussed whistle, in my right ear, since a certain surgery back in 1982.

I'd strangle him, if I could, but I can't quite reach him.

The kid's name is Tinnitus, and he's destined to be the only sound I can hear from my right ear till I die. 

Certain things seem to make him blow that whistle louder or harder.

Certain over-the-counter medicines, certain loud noises, stress, anxiety, weariness.

Complex social situations.

Like Bishop's disciplinary courts and stuff like that.

I pretty much can ignore the kid, but he takes his toll. Wears me down.

Apart from the omnipresent brat with a whistle, when I take my hearing aids out: you'd be all a'hush and awe'd in my presence.

Like, removing 'em magically teleports us to an LDS temple, 

You, and me and your spouse and those drunk folks over yonder across the cafeteria, and that big old flat screen television.

All of us, inside an LDS temple.

In our street clothes.

Just standing around,  murmuring, in a stage whisper, in a Mormon temple.

With that brat with the dog whistle, blowing away.

You'd think it would be peaceful: but there are people in this temple, holding a Bisop's Court, saying meaningful things I' d really like to hear. But I miss a lot and have to concentrate, sometimes quite hard, on one speaker.

Quite tiring. You get used to it. Sorta. But it's still tiring. 

Heavens forbid someone tells a joke. 

What's that, Scott Lloyd? Why did the chicken cross the road?

I dunno, Brother: why? Srrompersoiyyersaia?

Oh, hahaha, yeah, I get it: srrompersoiyyersaia! Good one!

(Dang it will someone please take that whistle away from that kid!)

Hearing aids help me. They distort and they can be noisy and how well they work depends upon room accoustics, how well I feel, ear wax, and maybe the relative humidity.

But hearing aids DO work.

So well that people forget I am Hard-of-Hearing. That I struggle a bit more than most folks in Sacrament Meetings and parties and Disciplinary Councils and such. That I might need a little extra consideration. 

They're why I have been able to remain integrated into Hearing society, mostly unaware of a Deaf community, until my hearing declined enough to motivate me to try to learn American Sign Language back a year or so ago.

Which is hard work, and I don't know any Deaf people and I have to go out of my way to find any, and it's tough practicing just in front of a mirror, and excuses like these are why I not only never stuck with ASL, but struggle with losing weight, too. WILL someone PLEASE get that DOG WHISTLE away from that KID!!!

Cochlear implants are like hearing aids, but different. They help but not so much by amplifying sound as by converting sound to electrical impulses to the auditory nerve.

Not everyone can use them: surgery killed one of the auditory nerves God gifted me.

Since I only have one nerve to spare, and there are hazards to cochlear implants (as with any surgery), I'm unwilling to risk them. (Please o please pretty please stop the dog whistle. Please?).

And some people have degenerative nerve disorders, or tumors, or other things which cause cochlear implants to be of declining utility.

At some least-convenient crossroad in life. While planning to marry or change jobs or attend a Bishop's Disciplinary Court or thus-and-so. (Whistle! Stop! Just! Stop!)

So one uses the tech but lives with it's limitations and compensates with lip reading and controlled social settings and whatnot.

Recognize that at certain times of day you're fresher and get on better.

So you try not to attend or schedule important events like Courts of Love for evenings, when you're apt to be tired and be cranky and/or miss a lot. 

Failing that, if you have no control over when something might get scheduled,  you may try to bring along a 'Terp or someone who can help.

And you plead God that the bratty kid with the dog whistle stays home.

He won't: but you can always hope.

Edited April 19, 2016 by flameburns623
Typos

[ALarson]

50 minutes ago, smac97 said:

CFR, if you please (I am not aware of a particular provision about this in the CHI, but I am happy to be corrected on that point).

Thanks,

-Smac

Here is where I saw it:

On 4/18/2016 at 1:43 PM, flameburns623 said:

"Interpreters for Deaf or Hearing-Impaired Members:

Members who are deaf or hearing impaired face communication obstacles in learning gospel principles and doctrines. If they use sign language, they need interpreters to help them participate fully in Church meetings, priesthood ordinances, temple work, testimony bearing, interviews, and activities.

Members who are deaf or hearing impaired are encouraged to be self-reliant and take the initiative to work with their priesthood leaders in coordinating the interpreting services they need. In preparation for sensitive situations such as personal interviews or Church disciplinary councils, priesthood leaders consult with the member to determine whether to use an interpreter. In these circumstances, leaders should seek an interpreter who is not a family member (if possible) and emphasize confidentiality.

If sufficient interpreters are not available, leaders may organize ward or stake classes to teach the sign language that is used in their area. Leaders may call qualified members to teach these classes. Members who are deaf or hearing impaired and use sign language as their native language should be considered first to teach the classes. A helpful resource is Dictionary of Sign Language Terms for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Only worthy members should interpret during sacrament meetings, priesthood meetings, and interviews. If a priesthood holder is not available to interpret during priesthood meeting, a presiding officer may ask a woman to do the interpretation. Nonmember interpreters may be used temporarily as volunteers in activities and most other meetings until members develop the skills to interpret.

A presiding officer may ask a priesthood holder to interpret an ordinance or blessing if the recipient is deaf or hearing impaired. If a priesthood holder is not available, a presiding officer may ask a woman to do the interpretation.

During a class or meeting, interpreters should be at the front of the classroom or chapel but not on the stand. They should also be to the side of the speaker so they do not create a visual distraction. Because understanding is enhanced by seeing the lips and body language of the person who is speaking, the deaf or hearing-impaired members should be able to see the interpreter and also be able to see the speaker or teacher peripherally. If enough interpreters are available, leaders ask them to rotate approximately every 30 minutes to avoid fatigue.

During a priesthood ordinance or an interview, the interpreter should be close to the person who performs the ordinance or conducts the interview.

If deaf or hearing-impaired members do not use sign language and need an oral interpreter to help them read lips, leaders use the same procedures they follow to find an interpreter who uses sign language."

 

[ALarson]

13 minutes ago, JulieM said:

No reputable attorney would hang their case on a statement about a person who didn't attend a meeting that didn't take place on the date given.  haha  

LOL

And with this, I'll withdraw my CFR.  

After catching up here, I see that USU realizes there was actually no disciplinary counsel on February 14th for Runnells to attend.  No references needed and I don't have the patience for the dodging and gymnastics.

.

Edited April 19, 2016 by ALarson

[USU78]

Just now, ALarson said:

And with this, I'll withdraw my CFR.  

After catching up here, I see that USU realizes there was actually no disciplinary counsel on February 14th for Runnells to attend.  No references needed.

You're still making things up.  And what CFR was that?

[salgare]

30 minutes ago, Russell C McGregor said:

No you are not.

I answered your CFR here:

That you did not like it is irrelevant. The fact is that I answered it. There is no "outstanding CFR."

Given that you whined to the mods some time ago and they've taken no action, that would seem to be their verdict.

You see, unlike the spite site where you are (or were) a so-called "moderator," the moderators here don't join in hog-piling.

So we shall take it as given (NPI) that when you claim that "MFB sealed the deal of this being a movement" (i.e. the so-called "Givens movement" that exists nowhere but in your imagination) in reality he did no such thing.

 

You were clearly no where close to why they were excommunicated, I'm putting you on ignore until you admit you where wrong.

[bluebell]

6 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Here is where I saw it:

 

I wonder if interpreters for DCs have to be members?

[USU78]

15 minutes ago, JulieM said:

 No reputable attorney would hang their case on a statement about a person who didn't attend a meeting that didn't take place on the date given.

Just what was I establishing, JulieM?

I answer my own question:  that Runnells lacked credibility in the context of his continuing to demand postponements.  I did not seek to establish that a council was held, did I?

So  ...  your "no true Scotsman" deflection fails.

[Calm]

I got the dog whistle blowing too.

Used to be low enough background noise would drown it out, sometimes it would even sound like music.

Since I started thyroid supps and/or last time I got a cavity filled, it has switched to full time full on one long high pitched squeal.  So tiring.  Can't ignore it anymore.  Always aware it is there.  Like someone is using my skull like a chime.  Don't know if it interferes with hearing yet or just with relaxing.  Since I am going to have to take thyroid suppsthe rest of my life, I don't see it getting better.  Definitely will never be able to sleep without the fan on high anymore.

[Calm]

Definition of "no show" according to google:  a person who makes a reservation and neither uses nor cancels it.

 

Since the meeting was canceled by the SP,then I don't see "no show" as a legitimate usage in this context.

[Calm]

Heasked for one postponement, did he not?  The SP did the second delay himself without a request.

[ALarson]

16 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I wonder if interpreters for DCs have to be members?

I really don't know.  I'd imagine they would prefer that they are members.  Maybe someone knows on here?  

[flameburns623]

15 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I wonder if interpreters for DCs have to be members?

I don't know. 

But certified, licensed ASL interpreters have a code of ethics to follow, which includes confidentiality. 

I think the Church uses mostly informally trained volunteers. Churches can do that, in most other settings it might be illegal. Saves the religious orgs some money, but you don't have the benefit of a professional code of ethics to stand on.

[Jeanne]

25 minutes ago, flameburns623 said:

A bit on hearing aids, cochlear implants, and deafness.

Y'all ever heard a dog whistle?

Congratulations: I never have.

But I can imagine it: a shrill, high- pitched sound right on the periphery of what you can hear.

Someone's bratty little kid has ahold of that dog whistle and he's blowing on it, right now.

One long continuous note.

He never takes a breath, this kid.

And no one can make him stop.

Just. One. Long. Note.

I'm listening to that brat, right now.

He's been blowing on that cussed whistle, in my right ear, since a certain surgery back in 1982.

I'd strangle him, if I could, but I can't quite reach him.

The kid's name is Tinnitus, and he's destined to be the only sound I can hear from my right ear till I die. 

Certain things seem to make him blow that whistle louder or harder.

Certain over-the-counter medicines, certain loud noises, stress, anxiety, weariness.

Complex social situations.

Like Bishop's disciplinary courts and stuff like that.

I pretty much can ignore the kid, but he takes his toll. Wears me down.

Apart from the omnipresent brat with a whistle, when I take my hearing aids out: you'd be all a'hush and awe'd in my presence.

Like, removing 'em magically teleports us to an LDS temple, 

You, and me and your spouse and those drunk folks over yonder across the cafeteria, and that big old flat screen television.

All of us, inside an LDS temple.

In our street clothes.

Just standing around,  murmuring, in a stage whisper, in a Mormon temple.

With that brat with the dog whistle, blowing away.

You'd think it would be peaceful: but there are people in this temple, holding a Bisop's Court, saying meaningful things I' d really like to hear. But I miss a lot and have to concentrate, sometimes quite hard, on one speaker.

Quite tiring. You get used to it. Sorta. But it's still tiring. 

Heavens forbid someone tells a joke. 

What's that, Scott Lloyd? Why did the chicken cross the road?

I dunno, Brother: why? Srrompersoiyyersaia?

Oh, hahaha, yeah, I get it: srrompersoiyyersaia! Good one!

(Dang it will someone please take that whistle away from that kid!)

Hearing aids help me. They distort and they can be noisy and how well they work depends upon room accoustics, how well I feel, ear wax, and maybe the relative humidity.

But hearing aids DO work.

So well that people forget I am Hard-of-Hearing. That I struggle a bit more than most folks in Sacrament Meetings and parties and Disciplinary Councils and such. That I might need a little extra consideration. 

They're why I have been able to remain integrated into Hearing society, mostly unaware of a Deaf community, until my hearing declined enough to motivate me to try to learn American Sign Language back a year or so ago.

Which is hard work, and I don't know any Deaf people and I have to go out of my way to find any, and it's tough practicing just in front of a mirror, and excuses like these are why I not only never stuck with ASL, but struggle with losing weight, too. WILL someone PLEASE get that DOG WHISTLE away from that KID!!!

Cochlear implants are like hearing aids, but different. They help but not so much by amplifying sound as by converting sound to electrical impulses to the auditory nerve.

Not everyone can use them: surgery killed one of the auditory nerves God gifted me.

Since I only have one nerve to spare, and there are hazards to cochlear implants (as with any surgery), I'm unwilling to risk them. (Please o please pretty please stop the dog whistle. Please?).

And some people have degenerative nerve disorders, or tumors, or other things which cause cochlear implants to be of declining utility.

At some least-convenient crossroad in life. While planning to marry or change jobs or attend a Bishop's Disciplinary Court or thus-and-so. (Whistle! Stop! Just! Stop!)

So one uses the tech but lives with it's limitations and compensates with lip reading and controlled social settings and whatnot.

Recognize that at certain times of day you're fresher and get on better.

So you try not to attend or schedule important events like Courts of Love for evenings, when you're apt to be tired and be cranky and/or miss a lot. 

Failing that, if you have no control over when something might get scheduled,  you may try to bring along a 'Terp or someone who can help.

And you plead God that the bratty kid with the dog whistle stays home.

He won't: but you can always hope.

Motorcycles...over and over again.

[ALarson]

Just now, flameburns623 said:

But certified, licensed ASL interpreters have a code of ethics to follow, which includes confidentiality. 

I think that would be the biggest concern of all parties involved.

[flameburns623]

10 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I think that would be the biggest concern of all parties involved.

 

The seven tenets of the RID Code of Ethics are listed below:

1. Interpreters adhere to standards of confidential communication.
2. Interpreters possess the professional skills and knowledge required for the specific interpreting situation.
3. Interpreters conduct themselves in a manner appropriate to the specific interpreting situation.
4. Interpreters demonstrate respect for consumers.
5. Interpreters demonstrate respect for colleagues, interns, and students of the profession.
6. Interpreters maintain Ethical business practices.
7. Interpreters engage in professional development.

Here is the official NAD-RID Code of Professional Conduct.

 

I cannot make the link work. I'm a member of the NAD (National Association of the Deaf), and the IAD (Illinois Association of the Deaf), which is how I know some of this stuff. Oh, and there's a bulletin board for the Deaf which I visit, too.

Edited April 19, 2016 by flameburns623

[Duncan]

2 hours ago, consiglieri said:

So as long as the SP keeps mum, he did no wrong?

Again, it appears you have prejudged the matter in favor of the SP.

you don't want to know what I think but i'm eating my Dominoes right now

[Jeanne]

14 minutes ago, Duncan said:

you don't want to know what I think but i'm eating my Dominoes right now

Duncan, I don't think I have ever seen you so angry before. 

[Duncan]

Just now, Jeanne said:

Duncan, I don't think I have ever seen you so angry before. 

nothing comes between me and Dominoes, except a visit to my heart specialist, Dr. Hartman

[Russell C McGregor]

2 hours ago, salgare said:

You were clearly no where close to why they were excommunicated, I'm putting you on ignore until you admit you where wrong.

If you put me on ignore, how will you know whether I "admit" anything or not?

The CFR rule doesn't mandate that you have to be convinced by my sources. It just means that I have to produce them.

Which I did.

Putting me on ignore is something you have a perfect right to do; but doing it to avoid answering a CFR is such an obvious dodge that you can't possibly expect anyone to not see through it.

 

[cdowis]

"interpreter"

OK, enough of this nonsense.

The Stake President ==>>  "We have talked with this guy and have given him opportunity to change his life..  He has made his continued rebellion very clear and we are not going to let him turn this into a circus.  If he wants us to communicate with him, we will get a piece of paper and pencil and write it down for him.  Enough is enough."

Edited April 20, 2016 by cdowis

[Jeanne]

10 minutes ago, cdowis said:

"interpreter"

OK, enough of this nonsense.

The Stake President ==>>  "We have talked with this guy and have given him opportunity to change his life..  He has made his continued rebellion very clear and we are not going to let him turn this into a circus.  If he wants us to communicate with him, we will get a piece of paper and pencil and write it down for him.  Enough is enough."

You forgot to add:  "And while we are at it, we will write down the answers to all his questions".  !

[Russell C McGregor]

8 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

You forgot to add:  "And while we are at it, we will write down the answers to all his questions".  !

All what questions?

Mister Runnells has no questions. Mister Runnells has positions which he pretends are questions.

 

[Jeanne]

4 minutes ago, Russell C McGregor said:

All what questions?

Mister Runnells has no questions. Mister Runnells has positions which he pretends are questions.

 

One of the questions he had was, what specifically did he write in the CES letter that was in conflict with the church.  The visions..the marriages..he didn't write any thing down that the church doesn't already acknowledge now.

You know..the least they could do is pretend to have answers,

Edited April 20, 2016 by Jeanne

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

One of the questions he had was, what specifically did he write in the CES letter that was in conflict with the church.  The visions..the marriages..he didn't write any thing down that the church doesn't already acknowledge now.

You know..the least they could do is pretend to have answers,

Runnel publicly declared that JS was a fraud.  That, and other similar statements is what is in conflict with the church. 

Wouldn't you agree?

[Storm Rider]

19 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

One of the questions he had was, what specifically did he write in the CES letter that was in conflict with the church.  The visions..the marriages..he didn't write any thing down that the church doesn't already acknowledge now.

You know..the least they could do is pretend to have answers,

That's just it - the answers are there.  I have not read this fellow's questions, but I suspect that I have seen them asked by other people a few thousand times.  I have never met someone that was totally unique in their litany of complaints about the Church of Jesus Christ.  The bottom line is that some have faith and some don't.  JR is one who does not and he joins a number of other people.  Bully for them.  As for those with faith - it does not fall from the sky and hit us on the head.  We have to respond in faith, follow in faith, serve in faith.  As we learn to love the Savior more fully; as we come to understand his atonement more completely; we walk in faith and love of Him who died for us.  Questions unanswered?  Not about what is important.