Jeanne Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 Though I don't condemn, I could not do it as I am just not that way. But here is a thought..just maybe this is the first time this man and/or person felt he had any voice in the church. For him, it may have just felt good. Silence hurts sometimes. 1
BlueDreams Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 14 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Though I don't condemn, I could not do it as I am just not that way. But here is a thought..just maybe this is the first time this man and/or person felt he had any voice in the church. For him, it may have just felt good. Silence hurts sometimes. Personal validation is not enough to make an action right. For what it's worth, most of the people who disagree with his actions here, myself included, aren't saying that he can't have voice, but that his voice suit the situation (hand raising/silent votes like the rest of us do). At the very least that's what I'm saying. Raise a hand, be directed to your stake president and hash it out. It has literally the exact same results and about the same amount of actual voicing within the church. Unless you're going for the news report outside the church....in which no one actually knows what exactly you oppose about the people called and the focus is still on the LDS leader's response (at least that's the only report I can find on it). If voice within the church is what they're going for, it seems to be the least effective way to get it. With luv, BD
Jeanne Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 1 minute ago, BlueDreams said: Personal validation is not enough to make an action right. For what it's worth, most of the people who disagree with his actions here, myself included, aren't saying that he can't have voice, but that his voice suit the situation (hand raising/silent votes like the rest of us do). At the very least that's what I'm saying. Raise a hand, be directed to your stake president and hash it out. It has literally the exact same results and about the same amount of actual voicing within the church. Unless you're going for the news report outside the church....in which no one actually knows what exactly you oppose about the people called and the focus is still on the LDS leader's response (at least that's the only report I can find on it). If voice within the church is what they're going for, it seems to be the least effective way to get it. With luv, BD You are so entitled to your opinion and I respect you for that. But no..any voice of opposition puts one through the ringer..and for some they are just put in a room to be disfellowshipped or exed. There is no voice to be heard when one has to walk away. No answers either. Hashing it out most likely means no one is going to listen..and guess what..from one who was given a "good riddance", no one is going to really care.
rockpond Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BlueDreams said: Raise a hand, be directed to your stake president and hash it out. It has literally the exact same results and about the same amount of actual voicing within the church. Raising a hand in a room where you cannot be seen is not being counted. I don't see how it fulfills the principle of common consent. Nor does "hashing it out" with your stake president. Edited April 4, 2016 by rockpond 2
Calm Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 So why not use ward conference and raise your hand then where one can be seen. Do they not have ushers at the conference center who could mark raised hands? Just asking. 2
rockpond Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jeanne said: You are so entitled to your opinion and I respect you for that. But no..any voice of opposition puts one through the ringer..and for some they are just put in a room to be disfellowshipped or exed. There is no voice to be heard when one has to walk away. No answers either. Hashing it out most likely means no one is going to listen..and guess what..from one who was given a "good riddance", no one is going to really care. Sadly a theme of this weekend's conference and a theme of this thread is that the Church doesn't want to hear those voices. There is no place for those voices. Which, again, makes one wonder: why ask? If there is no place for questioning, no place for any opposition, no desire to see or hear the "votes", then why continue the charade? 1
Jeanne Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 Just now, Calm said: So why not use ward conference and raise your hand then where one can be seen. Do they not have ushers at the conference center who could mark raised hands? Just asking. That is a better idea..I agree. 1
rockpond Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, Calm said: So why not use ward conference and raise your hand then where one can be seen. Do they not have ushers at the conference center who could mark raised hands? Just asking. A vote at ward conference doesn't communicate anything to the Brethren. I think turning on the lights and having ushers note raised hands would be a good solution.
Jeanne Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, rockpond said: Sadly a theme of this weekend's conference and a theme of this thread is that the Church doesn't want to hear those voices. There is no place for those voices. Which, again, makes one wonder: why ask? If there is no place for questioning, no place for any opposition, no desire to see or hear the "votes", then why continue the charade? Rockpond, before I submitted my resignation papers in 2008, I did everything I could do to get some answers. I spent hours of my own study..wrote down thoughts and questions and also wrote down things that were positive and that I loved about the church. I asked for blessings..I asked questions to two sets of bishoprics, one stake presidency and prayed like heck! i had questions!! I voiced them and it was like entering a foreign country. They did listen, but one fell asleep and my RS president would not get into deep doctrine, so my thoughts, feelings and questions felt minimized and my self worth took quite a beating. For me to have still been in the church at this time, I would had to havehad no voice. Edited April 4, 2016 by Jeanne 1
Gray Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, rockpond said: A vote at ward conference doesn't communicate anything to the Brethren. I think turning on the lights and having ushers note raised hands would be a good solution. Just put it online. Just log into LDS.org and vote yea or nay.
Calm Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 10 minutes ago, rockpond said: A vote at ward conference doesn't communicate anything to the Brethren. I think turning on the lights and having ushers note raised hands would be a good solution. I am asking about the current conditions. Would it be impossible to see raised hands? Are there people standing in various places that might be taking note?
cinepro Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 (edited) It should be noted that even with the shouting, the dissenting voices are pretty much ignored. They don't count how many people shouted, and they don't ask to speak with them afterward. Although, this year, it just sounds like one guy. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2016/04/media/session_2_talk_2/4828436055001?lang=eng Sadly, the guy didn't get to oppose when they released the 70s. Edited April 4, 2016 by cinepro
CA Steve Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 18 minutes ago, BlueDreams said: Personal validation is not enough to make an action right. For what it's worth, most of the people who disagree with his actions here, myself included, aren't saying that he can't have voice, but that his voice suit the situation (hand raising/silent votes like the rest of us do). At the very least that's what I'm saying. Raise a hand, be directed to your stake president and hash it out. It has literally the exact same results and about the same amount of actual voicing within the church. Unless you're going for the news report outside the church....in which no one actually knows what exactly you oppose about the people called and the focus is still on the LDS leader's response (at least that's the only report I can find on it). If voice within the church is what they're going for, it seems to be the least effective way to get it. With luv, BD They are going for as much attention as they can get both within the church and without. Given how public opinion seems to influence church actions, especially with SSM over the last decade, a vocal nay vote in a very public setting that might be heard by millions is exactly what they are going for. And I think those that agree with the method you propose are probably already doing it that way. One does not exclude the other. We may not know exactly why they are voting no, but the fact they are and the exposure they are getting is probably more important to them. There is a struggle going on for many regarding leadership. For some, hearing a negative vote at conference lets them know there are others out there who also feel leadership has made some errors.
Raingirl Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, Calm said: I am asking about the current conditions. Would it be impossible to see raised hands? Are there people standing in various places that might be taking note? From what I've been told, there are actions in place specifically to see the raised hands. But the fact that the church has and does handle this situation appropriately and with concern and respect is not sufficient for the naysayers.
rockpond Posted April 4, 2016 Posted April 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, Raingirl said: From what I've been told, there are actions in place specifically to see the raised hands. But the fact that the church has and does handle this situation appropriately and with concern and respect is not sufficient for the naysayers. What I recall reading is that the reason they decided to vocally say "opposed" was because the conference center lighting did not allow for raised hands to be seen. Having been in the conference center, but not for a conference session, I would tend to agree. But I am open to evidence to the contrary.
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