What does "the journey home" look like for a Latter-Day Saint?

[flameburns623]

Well I will be breaking a Cardinal Rule of Mormonism this morning: I have to leave promptly after Church, for work.

Ao I am wearing my GRAY UNIFORM SHIRT.

With accompanying red plaid tie.

In lieu of the Church standard white shirt.

Hope the bishop doesn't have a holy conniptuon!

(I will be wearing a blazer jacket over the shirt). 

Lol!

[Stargazer]

7 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

Well I will be breaking a Cardinal Rule of Mormonism this morning: I have to leave promptly after Church, for work.

Ao I am wearing my GRAY UNIFORM SHIRT.

With accompanying red plaid tie.

In lieu of the Church standard white shirt.

Hope the bishop doesn't have a holy conniptuon!

(I will be wearing a blazer jacket over the shirt). 

Lol!

I attended church today, and taught the High Priests group in my favorite outfit: black trousers, black shirt, colorful tie (purple, cerise, with black trimming), and dark blue blazer.  Nobody remarked on it.

[UtahTexan]

I wear a three-piece suit each Sunday.  I love wearing vests.  I often wear a blue, gray, or purple shirt, depending on suit.  No one ever blinks...I teach Gospel Doctrine

[flameburns623]

6 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I attended church today, and taught the High Priests group in my favorite outfit: black trousers, black shirt, colorful tie (purple, cerise, with black trimming), and dark blue blazer.  Nobody remarked on it.

Someone was joshing around recently that thet were ex'd for showing up in a gray shirt. 

That's the backstory behind my hopefully-humorous pist.

[RevTestament]

A prof in my old ward often wore a purple shirt, but other colors too. If I saw him in a white shirt, I think I would faint in shock...

I regularly wear accru, oxford blue, yellow, mint green and red shirts. But today was white. I am a tad more conservative

[Tacenda]

43 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I attended church today, and taught the High Priests group in my favorite outfit: black trousers, black shirt, colorful tie (purple, cerise, with black trimming), and dark blue blazer.  Nobody remarked on it.

You, Country Boy, Rev and Flame are such outlaws.  The people that dress like that in my ward are definitely stand outs.  But to me...it's a good thing.  

[Jeanne]

9 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

Well I will be breaking a Cardinal Rule of Mormonism this morning: I have to leave promptly after Church, for work.

Ao I am wearing my GRAY UNIFORM SHIRT.

With accompanying red plaid tie.

In lieu of the Church standard white shirt.

Hope the bishop doesn't have a holy conniptuon!

(I will be wearing a blazer jacket over the shirt). 

Lol!

Well..I thought you were really worried about something there...I am going to assume you have a kind, wonderful bishop that won't give a hoot about any of that. 

[flameburns623]

Nobody seriously pays a LOT of attention although most of the men do wear jackets and white shirts these days.

I remember that some of the wards I have attended long time past had about a15% noncomformist cadre.

I don't know if that was a 1990's thing (a lot of corporate dress codes went out the window during that decade); or what. I notice no corduroy suits or blazers-over-dress-coveralls in my present ward.

Joking around aside: I have never heard of anyone being turned from an LDS ward for being shabbily dressed, let alone for breaking the "dress code".

I have, however, known of members and/or wards which obtained some suitable nicer clothing for investigators for whom it clearly would have been a hardship to  obtain such  themselves.

[Jim Stiles]

16 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

Nauvoo is likely to be five hours or so north of me. Though I do wanna go up there for a day trip sometime. For the regular LDS events and historic sites.

Oddly, I have never attended even a Community of Christ Restorationist service. The only live BoM believers I have ever met were "Utah" Mormons. 

What is a "way back" machine?

Non-Utah BOM believing seems to be a midwestern thing.  I have never been to a non-Utah BOM believing service either.

The internet Wayback Machine is a web site consisting of pages archived from the web.  Defunct or obsolete web pages may be accessed with the internet Wayback Machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayback_Machine

[why me]

On 2.4.2016 at 6:48 AM, flameburns623 said:

The trick to all this is time, reflection, and prayer.

Time, because I am cognizant that this impulse to consider returning may be driven by something other than a sincere desire for Truth. Nostalgia is not a good basis upon which to build a testimony. Grief is not. A sense of fellowship is not.

During a stormy phase of dating a particular person, a young lady and I sought counsel with a pastor. His advice was that, though we were contemplating marriage, given the tempests of our relationship, we ought seriously to make no permanent commitments to one another for a "full four seasons".

He suggested that in doing so, we would observe each other's moods and temperaments over a sufficient span to develop skills to anticipate and to cope with such natural changes.

Or, to decide that the energies required to do so were a greater investment than one or either or each of us were ready to make.

His advice was prudent. We had considered getting married via a JP, on the fly; but we held off. Within weeks, we parted as friends and each of us moved on to other loves.

Of course, I have already spent a considerable time "in the company" of the LDS Church. Disregarding the long periods of inactivity, at least five years.

But I have joined and left, rejoined and left again. My reasons for leaving were different in each case, but the record suggests that taking a bit of time is a good idea.

Reflection, because it is by introspection and study that I can really know if this is what I want, and to know, better, why I want to do it.

I don't, btw, feel a need at this juncture to engage the apologetics materials to any high degree.

I will stay clear of all of the social issue debates, thankee very much.

Nor do I want to delve deeply into all of the historical hullabaloo that may be troubling others in their testimonies.

These issues just really are not mine at this moment: they don't possess nor obsess me. They're doubtlessly important but they do not presently loom large on my radar.

Prayer, not to "brainwash" myself into a testimony but so as to really commune with God, to feel I know His Heart in this matter, to have His guidance and not just my own human reasoning and impulses to direct me. 

My two cents on how I presently see my direction for the time being.

I only see one problem with all the above. I don't see anything about what god may want. You have many I's.  I do see something in prayer but what does it mean not to brainwash myself? For example, if one prays for a testimony and one is given, what distinguishes this from brainwashing? I didn't quite understand. For me the journey home would mean to have an open heart to what god wants for me and to accept his will for me. I don't know what would be better: to have I's or to have god at the center of the sentences. 

[why me]

4 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

Nobody seriously pays a LOT of attention although most of the men do wear jackets and white shirts these days.

I remember that some of the wards I have attended long time past had about a15% noncomformist cadre.

I don't know if that was a 1990's thing (a lot of corporate dress codes went out the window during that decade); or what. I notice no corduroy suits or blazers-over-dress-coveralls in my present ward.

Joking around aside: I have never heard of anyone being turned from an LDS ward for being shabbily dressed, let alone for breaking the "dress code".

I have, however, known of members and/or wards which obtained some suitable nicer clothing for investigators for whom it clearly would have been a hardship to  obtain such  themselves.

I am not a dress code person and no one has ever looked at me sideways. But who knows what people have thought. But I haven't seen any problem. I just don't like to iron white shirts. But I am afraid that I am still a minority. I see no one copying my dress code. White shirts are still the order of the day on sunday. And would the journey home require the male and women to conform to the dress code?

[why me]

6 hours ago, CountryBoy said:

I wear a three-piece suit each Sunday.  I love wearing vests.  I often wear a blue, gray, or purple shirt, depending on suit.  No one ever blinks...I teach Gospel Doctrine

This is good news about the shirts but the rest of your outfit would kill me. I am a free fitting guy who likes shirts that are not fitted and I am too old for fitted pants. And I don't wear a suit. I think that I am a rebel.

[why me]

14 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

Well I will be breaking a Cardinal Rule of Mormonism this morning: I have to leave promptly after Church, for work.

Ao I am wearing my GRAY UNIFORM SHIRT.

With accompanying red plaid tie.

In lieu of the Church standard white shirt.

Hope the bishop doesn't have a holy conniptuon!

(I will be wearing a blazer jacket over the shirt). 

Lol!

Sounds good. Good to stand out and set a trend. Lets us know about the reaction. Will it be or

[flameburns623]

55 minutes ago, why me said:

I only see one problem with all the above. I don't see anything about what god may want. You have many I's.  I do see something in prayer but what does it mean not to brainwash myself? For example, if one prays for a testimony and one is given, what distinguishes this from brainwashing? I didn't quite understand. For me the journey home would mean to have an open heart to what god wants for me and to accept his will for me. I don't know what would be better: to have I's or to have god at the center of the sentences. 

Not to get too defensive, but my paragraph on prayer did speak of communing with God, and of knowing His heart.

And the whole point of taking the time and of reflection were/are to deter myself from an impulsive, willful and merely human decision.

But thanks for your insights. I will take them seriously.

[why me]

7 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

Not to get too defensive, but my paragraph on prayer did speak of communing with God, and of knowing His heart.

And the whole point of taking the time and of reflection were/are to deter myself from an impulsive, willful and merely human decision.

But thanks for your insights. I will take them seriously.

Okay. I did notice that. Thanks for your posts and for your honesty. I really appreciate it.

[UtahTexan]

19 hours ago, why me said:

This is good news about the shirts but the rest of your outfit would kill me. I am a free fitting guy who likes shirts that are not fitted and I am too old for fitted pants. And I don't wear a suit. I think that I am a rebel.

Funny thing.....as an attorney, I always wore a three-piece suit....looks good...even if shirt comes untucked, no one knows.....so...I figured, if it was good enough for the court, it was good enough for God.

Don't get me wrong......I am a jeans, boots and T-shirt kinda Texan.....but.....

[flameburns623]

Almost had to wear a blue oxford today. After last week's grey shirt humor really wanted to "do penance" by wearing a white shirt today.

We had a water leak over a year ago. It stained some of my white shirts, and I had forgotten this happened.  

Now I will have to launder them.

Found 1 wearable white shirt. With a missing button right at the waistline but no one will notce that with a necktie covering my buttons. 

 

Edit: now I have to take a washcloth to my necktie: got breakfast syrup on it.  What a morning!

Edited April 17, 2016 by flameburns623

[mfbukowski]

On 4/10/2016 at 3:40 PM, flameburns623 said:

Nobody seriously pays a LOT of attention although most of the men do wear jackets and white shirts these days.

I remember that some of the wards I have attended long time past had about a15% noncomformist cadre.

I don't know if that was a 1990's thing (a lot of corporate dress codes went out the window during that decade); or what. I notice no corduroy suits or blazers-over-dress-coveralls in my present ward.

Joking around aside: I have never heard of anyone being turned from an LDS ward for being shabbily dressed, let alone for breaking the "dress code".

I have, however, known of members and/or wards which obtained some suitable nicer clothing for investigators for whom it clearly would have been a hardship to  obtain such  themselves.

We have done that for investigators, not because they were violating some invisible code, but to make THEM feel more integrated into the group.

I voted that we all just wear jeans and t-shirts but that did not fly.

[mfbukowski]

We have guys coming into the temple straight from work in blue work shirts and overalls- with their names on a label sewn onto the shirt and nobody bats an eye.

Thank God they think more about doing temple service than impressing the 5 people who might notice them between the door and locker room.

[flameburns623]

Well, the ward I have been attending has recently experienced a change of bishops and it will be a week or two before I can meet with the new bishop.

Don't know if the meeting will include a baptismal interview or just another general "getting to know you" chit-chat. 

I've been spending somewhere upwards of one or two periods of prayer and petition as well as re-reading (or listening to) the Scriptures, Jesus the Christ, Gospel Princples, or other materials. Journaling, keeping the WoW, etcetera.

I attend all three hours of Church and have participated actively in classes. Have even been feeding the Missionaries about once every two weeks or so. Haven't been a lot of other opportunities for service. 

I do feel closer to Heavenly Father, and comfortable with the thought of returning to full membership status. I intend to more intensely beseech the Spirit in the coming days for a witness of what He would for me. 

Plan to perhaps put together an outline for the Bishop and I to discuss. I will keep it basic and simple, as someone advised via PM. But cover enough ground that the Bishop knows I have the fundamentals of the Gospel in my grasp. 

Continued prayers appreciated.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, flameburns623 said:

Well, the ward I have been attending has recently experienced a change of bishops and it will be a week or two before I can meet with the new bishop.

Don't know if the meeting will include a baptismal interview or just another general "getting to know you" chit-chat. 

I've been spending somewhere upwards of one or two periods of prayer and petition as well as re-reading (or listening to) the Scriptures, Jesus the Christ, Gospel Princples, or other materials. Journaling, keeping the WoW, etcetera.

I attend all three hours of Church and have participated actively in classes. Have even been feeding the Missionaries about once every two weeks or so. Haven't been a lot of other opportunities for service. 

I do feel closer to Heavenly Father, and comfortable with the thought of returning to full membership status. I intend to more intensely beseech the Spirit in the coming days for a witness of what He would for me. 

Plan to perhaps put together an outline for the Bishop and I to discuss. I will keep it basic and simple, as someone advised via PM. But cover enough ground that the Bishop knows I have the fundamentals of the Gospel in my grasp. 

Continued prayers appreciated.

Trying to remember the manual, your baptismal interview may be conducted by the missionaries.

Wonderful that you are coming back and growing so much!

[flameburns623]

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Trying to remember the manual, your baptismal interview may be conducted by the missionaries.

Wonderful that you are coming back and growing so much!

Manual seems to say that the Missionaries should NOT teach a resigned/returning member. At least the Wikileaks purloined one seemed so to say. Dunno what revisions or memos might indicate. And the version I downloaded isn't very searchable: you have to zig-zag around to find the pertinent info, and the download isn't very cooperative. 

[mfbukowski]

7 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

Manual seems to say that the Missionaries should NOT teach a resigned/returning member. At least the Wikileaks purloined one seemed so to say. Dunno what revisions or memos might indicate. And the version I downloaded isn't very searchable: you have to zig-zag around to find the pertinent info, and the download isn't very cooperative. 

No, now that you mention it, I am sure you are right.

I only get the red manual nowadays, but I do remember that now that you state it that way.  If I were to advise you, I would go with the person who advised you to keep it simple.

[Jeanne]

14 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

Well, the ward I have been attending has recently experienced a change of bishops and it will be a week or two before I can meet with the new bishop.

Don't know if the meeting will include a baptismal interview or just another general "getting to know you" chit-chat. 

I've been spending somewhere upwards of one or two periods of prayer and petition as well as re-reading (or listening to) the Scriptures, Jesus the Christ, Gospel Princples, or other materials. Journaling, keeping the WoW, etcetera.

I attend all three hours of Church and have participated actively in classes. Have even been feeding the Missionaries about once every two weeks or so. Haven't been a lot of other opportunities for service. 

I do feel closer to Heavenly Father, and comfortable with the thought of returning to full membership status. I intend to more intensely beseech the Spirit in the coming days for a witness of what He would for me. 

Plan to perhaps put together an outline for the Bishop and I to discuss. I will keep it basic and simple, as someone advised via PM. But cover enough ground that the Bishop knows I have the fundamentals of the Gospel in my grasp. 

Continued prayers appreciated.

Wishing for your happiness.  I am thinking surely your former bishop will have an exchange with the new bishop as to your progress.  Keep us posted. 

Jeanne

[flameburns623]

Met with Bishop today. 

I had prepared a timeline of my church membership going back to 1979, as well as an overview of what I have been doing since February.

Apparently the letter I wrote in July of 1980 requesting excommunication (so far as I would have known back then, "resigning membership" would not have been an option) remains on file.

That letter, filled with citations I took from anti-Mormon materials, is my Bishop's biggest stumbling-block. I pointed out that letter is more than 35 years old and that I had long since resolved and repented of the things said therein.

His second issue was with my resignation letter of 2008. That was a form letter that I cribbed from the 'Net. Since it mentioned the potential for legal action, the Church Membership folks had packed away my membership records but good. It had taken a bit to turn them up.

The bishop had only a few moments to glance over the materials I had prepared for him today. He is sympathetic to the fact I have spent much of my working life as a shift-worker, as he is in the same boat and misses a Sunday or two at Church for that reason.

Given schedules and other things, we agreed to meet again sometime in July. Meanwhile he asked me to keep making progress. 

This is my latest update.