mfbukowski Posted June 13, 2016 Posted June 13, 2016 20 minutes ago, flameburns623 said: Met with Bishop today. I had prepared a timeline of my church membership going back to 1979, as well as an overview of what I have been doing since February. Apparently the letter I wrote in July of 1980 requesting excommunication (so far as I would have known back then, "resigning membership" would not have been an option) remains on file. That letter, filled with citations I took from anti-Mormon materials, is my Bishop's biggest stumbling-block. I pointed out that letter is more than 35 years old and that I had long since resolved and repented of the things said therein. His second issue was with my resignation letter of 2008. That was a form letter that I cribbed from the 'Net. Since it mentioned the potential for legal action, the Church Membership folks had packed away my membership records but good. It had taken a bit to turn them up. The bishop had only a few moments to glance over the materials I had prepared for him today. He is sympathetic to the fact I have spent much of my working life as a shift-worker, as he is in the same boat and misses a Sunday or two at Church for that reason. Given schedules and other things, we agreed to meet again sometime in July. Meanwhile he asked me to keep making progress. This is my latest update. Well that is some progress- it may not seem like it, but at least there is some communication Some suggestions: Bear your testimony and talk about how your change of heart came about, in a detailed way. Essentially you might go over each of the points in your resignation letter and refute them yourself. You can do that verbally or in writing if you have the time and want to put in the effort. Be honest. Get to know the guy and just let him know that you are sincere. Ask for a way to help out the ward, passing out hymnbooks or helping with ward cleanup projects etc- tell him you want to serve. Show up for all meetings and sign rolls so that there is a record of your attendance. Talk to your priesthood leaders (EQ president, High Priest Group leaderand tell them you want to help them, but that you are not technically a member of the church, so anything you help with will not be like teaching lessons etc. Get yourself active in the ward just by attending, going to socials, introducing yourself to others etc. Make friends. At some point if he is still reticent, talk to the stake president. They are usually available at least one night a week to sign temple recommends- call the Stake Executive secretary and make an appointment on one of those nights so you can explain the problem to him IF there actually is a "problem". Or you could seek out the missionaries on your own and ask them to help out and maybe even try to go for an interview with the Mission President. Missionaries are always pushing to baptize people, and have leadership outside the stake and that might be useful. Mission presidents are more experienced than bishops and stake presidents. But those are extreme measures to be used if all else fails. The bishop will eventually come around. It might take a bit to build some trust, but it will happen. They might not want to send the missionaries in case you are actually trying to convince them of the truth of the anti-Mormon stuff, so that could be a problem until you establish trust. Sorry it's so hard but he is a new bishop and probably trying to protect his flock, and he does not yet have the confidence or trust to take action. Who knows- he might have been shaken by the anti-Mormon stuff himself, so he feels personally threatened. Bishops are not called because they are good at refuting anti-Mormon material. Emphasize that you understand the spirit is more important than worrying about historical details that could be inaccurate or misunderstood or deliberately distorted, that sort of thing. Don't worry- it's moving forward, though it might not seem like it, or not fast enough. That must have been quite a letter and it might take a bit to overcome its effects. Hang in there!! 3
flameburns623 Posted June 13, 2016 Author Posted June 13, 2016 5 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Well that is some progress- it may not seem like it, but at least there is some communication Some suggestions: Bear your testimony and talk about how your change of heart came about, in a detailed way. Essentially you might go over each of the points in your resignation letter and refute them yourself. You can do that verbally or in writing if you have the time and want to put in the effort. Be honest. Get to know the guy and just let him know that you are sincere. Ask for a way to help out the ward, passing out hymnbooks or helping with ward cleanup projects etc- tell him you want to serve. Show up for all meetings and sign rolls so that there is a record of your attendance. Talk to your priesthood leaders (EQ president, High Priest Group leaderand tell them you want to help them, but that you are not technically a member of the church, so anything you help with will not be like teaching lessons etc. Get yourself active in the ward just by attending, going to socials, introducing yourself to others etc. Make friends. At some point if he is still reticent, talk to the stake president. They are usually available at least one night a week to sign temple recommends- call the Stake Executive secretary and make an appointment on one of those nights so you can explain the problem to him IF there actually is a "problem". Or you could seek out the missionaries on your own and ask them to help out and maybe even try to go for an interview with the Mission President. Missionaries are always pushing to baptize people, and have leadership outside the stake and that might be useful. Mission presidents are more experienced than bishops and stake presidents. But those are extreme measures to be used if all else fails. The bishop will eventually come around. It might take a bit to build some trust, but it will happen. They might not want to send the missionaries in case you are actually trying to convince them of the truth of the anti-Mormon stuff, so that could be a problem until you establish trust. Sorry it's so hard but he is a new bishop and probably trying to protect his flock, and he does not yet have the confidence or trust to take action. Who knows- he might have been shaken by the anti-Mormon stuff himself, so he feels personally threatened. Bishops are not called because they are good at refuting anti-Mormon material. Emphasize that you understand the spirit is more important than worrying about historical details that could be inaccurate or misunderstood or deliberately distorted, that sort of thing. Don't worry- it's moving forward, though it might not seem like it, or not fast enough. That must have been quite a letter and it might take a bit to overcome its effects. Hang in there!! Thanks for the suggestions. I'm on nearly the same page with you. I don't have my 1980 letter. I didn't even remember writing it. It was almost certainly culled from Shadow or Reality by the Tanners and from Who Really Wrote The Book of Mormon? by whoever the two guys were who composed that. Mine was not a long letter, just a couple to three pages or so, all of it directed to the purpose of telling my bishop at the time that I was done and wanted out. I think it's more important to underscore to my present bishop that in 1980 I was 20 years old. And that since then, I have repented and was reconciled to the Church. My bishop is newly-appointed and I think he made a bit of a newbie mistake, not having the chronology firmly in mind nor realising that my 1980 dearture was cancelled out by my return in 1988. The material I handed off to him today was a timeline of my history with the Church and an overview of my spiritual growth over the past four months, concluding with my personal testimony. He is aware of the "Stages of Faith" construct, and I discussed how I wasn't troubled by the same sort of questions which had loomed large for me at age twenty, and that at my presentnt age I see the Church as a resource for becoming a better person and for doing good. I am trying to serve, as best I can, notably inviting the Missionaries out to eat several times. Feeding the Missionaries seems a huge deal in this ward. I eat out mostly, so I have the guys meet up with me at a restaurant. So far, I've discovered that they each loathe the thought of Long John Silver's: I told them their problem is they neither one live close enough to a viable body of water to have gained a taste for fish. Apart from that, I've shown them You Tube videos of Joseph and Smith's parody of "Hello", as well as Elenyi's medley of Come Thou Fount/Hie to Kolob. (As an aside: what a difference a change of companionships can make. The pair I had out the first few times were short-timers with roughly six months apiece. They were as stiff as a couple of brand new packs of playing cards. One of those guys cycled out. His replacement, who isn't a greenhorn but has fourteen months to serve, is a much warmer and more affable person, and he is bringing a bit more personality out in his senior companion). I'm also participating in class sessions, have offered prayers, etcetera My family & friends are going on a sports outing with the Ward, and I plan to go to the ward Nauvoo event soon. I am NOT adverting that I resigned: in fact, I am requesting discretion about that. I figure I have been out nine years: it might take nine months to set things right. If matters are still dragging at that point I might scope out a workaround. Right now I am being patient and humble as possible. Thanks for the feedback. It affirms that I am doing a lot of the things I ought to be doing. 3
flameburns623 Posted July 10, 2016 Author Posted July 10, 2016 I had thought the Bishop intended to meet with me me mid-July, prior to his vacation. He recollects differently, that we were to touch base mid-August, AFTER his vacation. Crossing of wires, somewhere. In any case, this will give me two to three weeks longer to establish progress and document same. My Mom's passing threw a monkey wrench into prepping something in writing for him to review. My family & I did attend a regional Mormon Night At The Ballpark event; I participated in a Mother's Day activity the Elder's Quorum put together; and I have helped the Elders out a couple of times (in addition to feeding them every few weeks). These should help reflect my serious desire to be an active and serving member of the Ward. On the spiritual side, I am still working my way through Talmage and several other materials, reading the BoM. I attend all Sunday meetings, having missed only once. I've had less opportunity for quiet times of reflection and prayer, between overtime at work and (again) the bustle involved with Mom's death and nailing down final arrangements. But I am praying. So: I think the Bishop should be pleased, and I cannot think that he will want to delay much longer. 1
Jeanne Posted July 10, 2016 Posted July 10, 2016 48 minutes ago, flameburns623 said: I had thought the Bishop intended to meet with me me mid-July, prior to his vacation. He recollects differently, that we were to touch base mid-August, AFTER his vacation. Crossing of wires, somewhere. In any case, this will give me two to three weeks longer to establish progress and document same. My Mom's passing threw a monkey wrench into prepping something in writing for him to review. My family & I did attend a regional Mormon Night At The Ballpark event; I participated in a Mother's Day activity the Elder's Quorum put together; and I have helped the Elders out a couple of times (in addition to feeding them every few weeks). These should help reflect my serious desire to be an active and serving member of the Ward. On the spiritual side, I am still working my way through Talmage and several other materials, reading the BoM. I attend all Sunday meetings, having missed only once. I've had less opportunity for quiet times of reflection and prayer, between overtime at work and (again) the bustle involved with Mom's death and nailing down final arrangements. But I am praying. So: I think the Bishop should be pleased, and I cannot think that he will want to delay much longer. How you feel about yourself and your goals is the important thing. Just be happy! 1
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