savedwheat Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 "That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love" (Eph. 3.16,17)."his Spirit" is His not another being. Christ dwells in the heart of a believer by "his Spirit". "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14.26). The only way the Holy Spirit can bring all things into remembrance what Jesus said is if the Holy Spirit is co-equal with the Son. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt. 28.19).Baptize in all that is God not some other being or beings, lesser beings, etc. "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied" (1 Pet. 1.2).Elect are according to all that is God. "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Heb. .14). "through the eternal Spirit" by the blood of Christ. Only God can offer perfect sacrifice. None else can qualify. "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3.16,17). This is the God the Father, the Spirit and Jesus all working together not multiple beings. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" (1 John 5.7). "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen" (2 Cor. 3.14). It's not just the love of God the Father, but the grace of the Lord Jesus and the communion of the Spirit as one being.
halconero Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 This thread is literally above another started by you with an almost identifical title. .....why?
savedwheat Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 I couldn't get into that other thread. It doesn't let me in.
The Nehor Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 2 hours ago, savedwheat said: I couldn't get into that other thread. It doesn't let me in. Hopefully you got banned from the thread,
RevTestament Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 6 hours ago, savedwheat said: "That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love" (Eph. 3.16,17)."his Spirit" is His not another being. Christ dwells in the heart of a believer by "his Spirit". "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14.26). The only way the Holy Spirit can bring all things into remembrance what Jesus said is if the Holy Spirit is co-equal with the Son. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt. 28.19).Baptize in all that is God not some other being or beings, lesser beings, etc. "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied" (1 Pet. 1.2).Elect are according to all that is God. "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Heb. .14). "through the eternal Spirit" by the blood of Christ. Only God can offer perfect sacrifice. None else can qualify. "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3.16,17). This is the God the Father, the Spirit and Jesus all working together not multiple beings. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" (1 John 5.7). "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen" (2 Cor. 3.14). It's not just the love of God the Father, but the grace of the Lord Jesus and the communion of the Spirit as one being. 1 John 5.7 is known as the Johannine comma because it is not in the oldest Bibles and Greek manuscripts, because it was added by the Catholic Church from the commentary note on an old manuscript as even the Catholic Encyclopedia admits. It was not in the Syrian Bible, which is just as old as the Greek manuscripts. I'm not saying it is wrong in substance, but it was not written from the pen of the apostle. Christ is a separate being from the Father, but they are one YHWH Elohim. If they were one being, the plural verbs and pronoun "us" would not be used in the Hebrew Torah of Genesis. If they were the same being, Christ could not say such things as "to sit on my right and left hand is not mine to give, but shall be given to whom it is prepared" and "no one knoweth when the son of man will return but the Father only, no not the Son..." etc. Isaiah 42 also says the Father will tell Him all things before they transpire. Verses such as these are why I stopped believing the false teaching of the doctrines of the trinity when I was a boy, because it cannot be reconciled with scripture. The Doctrine of the Trinity turns Jesus into a schyzophrenic praying to himself. It was imposed upon the early church by a minority (no more than about 325) of the bishops of the 1200 bishops of the church in the empire and even a smaller percentage when one considers the many bishops in the Parthian Empire which the Romans always leave out of history. The doctrine of the Trinity is not only false but it was illegal from the start. The end. 1
Glenn101 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 7 hours ago, savedwheat said: "That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love" (Eph. 3.16,17)."his Spirit" is His not another being. Christ dwells in the heart of a believer by "his Spirit". "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14.26). The only way the Holy Spirit can bring all things into remembrance what Jesus said is if the Holy Spirit is co-equal with the Son. "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matt. 28.19).Baptize in all that is God not some other being or beings, lesser beings, etc. "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied" (1 Pet. 1.2).Elect are according to all that is God. "How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Heb. .14). "through the eternal Spirit" by the blood of Christ. Only God can offer perfect sacrifice. None else can qualify. "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3.16,17). This is the God the Father, the Spirit and Jesus all working together not multiple beings. "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one" (1 John 5.7). "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen" (2 Cor. 3.14). It's not just the love of God the Father, but the grace of the Lord Jesus and the communion of the Spirit as one being. You are quoting verses that mostly indicate three separate entities and interpreting them according to a presupposed idea of the Godhead. You have already been given a Biblical passage which shows how the Father and Jesus Christ cannot be all-in-one and one-in-all literally but must be taken figuratively, but I will repeat it: John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: That verse requires no interpretation but the next verse I will quote should give some inkling of what is meant by being "one". Romans 15:6 6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. And another verse that should dispel the idea that two are one literally. I believe another poster may already have quoted it before. Genesis 2:24 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. That is repeated in Mark, chapter 10 by the Savior: 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. I should not have to explain that to anyone. I would not think that anyone would argue that a man and woman who are married literally are one flesh. I hope not. Glenn
Zakuska Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) 8 hours ago, savedwheat said: I couldn't get into that other thread. It doesn't let me in. I'm finding an issue when running on Chrome in my tablet that it only allows me to edit a post once and then after that I hit save and it does nothing. I often have to go in and fix the autocorrect mistakes and spelling issues. :S Edited January 24, 2016 by Zakuska
Storm Rider Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Actual teaching of the Catholic Church is that God is three distinct persons in one God. They are one "substance"; this concept of substance is beyond our understanding or comprehension. It is my personal belief that this doctrine was created in order to maintain the divinity of the son of God - a separate being - and yet remain monotheists. The concept of having three Gods was anathema in their perception of Jewish teaching, the parent of Christianity. For LDS we don't have a issue with either the concept of monotheism or acknowledging that there are three Gods. In fact, it makes us confused when some Christians have issues with the teaching. If we are to become joint-heirs with Christ - we inherit what he inherits then it makes sense, it can only mean, that God the Father promises that we may each become like Christ. In fact, many of the early Church Fathers taught this very concept. St. Athanasius of Alexandria wrote, "He was incarnate that we might be made god". This process of Theosis is made possible through and by the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the end result is that we become gods. The teaching of Sabellius was that God and Jesus were simply different manifestations of the same person - this was viewed as history. This was another man-made effort to maintain a form of monotheism while retaining the divinity of Jesus. The LDS Church acknowledges this as a false teaching also. God the Father, Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost are three distinct persons or Gods. This is what is supported by scripture when taken in context. 1
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) All you need to remember is Jesus is I AM and the Father is I AM that's one being. Trinity. Edited January 25, 2016 by savedwheat
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 You forgot the Holy Ghost is I Am as well. All one metaphsical nature = close to modalism - a Heresy. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 Modalism is 1x1x1 whereas the Trinity is 1/3+1/3+1/3 = 1
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Which Trinity do you believe in ? [ Note there is more than 1 form/model]. So The Father is only 1/3 God, Jesus is 1/3 God, Holy Ghost 1/3 God ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 I only know of one Trinity the one I gave.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 I thought you'd never ask. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1.1). "The same was in the beginning with God" (v.2). "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (v.3). "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not" (v.4). "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth" (v.14). The word is Jesus. Jesus is called God. Jesus is with God the Father. There is One Being God. This is the Trinity. So when you believe in the Trinity you will be born-again. If you are not born-again then you are not saved. If you are not saved you are going to Hell. "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1.13). "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" (v.12).
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) You know of only 1 Trinity ?, western,eastern,economic,essential,social, bultman to name a few. so again wich form model is the "Biblical One ? you described ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7 Edited January 25, 2016 by Anakin7
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Not according to the non LDS [and LDS] Professors/Scholars/Theologians. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
RevTestament Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 5 hours ago, savedwheat said: I thought you'd never ask. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1.1). "The same was in the beginning with God" (v.2). "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (v.3). "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not" (v.4). "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth" (v.14). The word is Jesus. Jesus is called God. Jesus is with God the Father. There is One Being God. This is the Trinity. So when you believe in the Trinity you will be born-again. If you are not born-again then you are not saved. If you are not saved you are going to Hell. "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" (John 1.13). "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" (v.12). This shows the misinterpretation of Elohim through the Greek NT. Per Hebrews 1:8 and Psalms Jesus is Elohim. Therefore, it is possible for He and the Father to be Elohim, which is essentially the same as the house of God - one Elohim - one house. But the English Bibles lose the distinction by combining El and Elohim both into "God." They really are not the same thing in the Hebrew. Oh well - maybe one day you will actually sit down with a Hebrew Interlinear and learn this.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 There can only be one being before time and space alone from everlasting. Otherwise you have to ask where these others come from. So God is not a complex of beings, but One Being in 3 Persons. In the beginning was the word Jesus, He was with God the Father and is God. This same Jesus created all things. Hence, the Trinity.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 It's illogical to ask where the uncreated Creator comes from. He's uncreated.
Calm Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Then it would be equally illogical to ask where any other uncreated beings came from, correct?
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