Christian Responsibilty

[why me]

Does this topic have to be about you?

I have a question for you and it has nothing to do with nehor. Sweden is quite a feminist society. Have the swedish feminists commented about the dress that muslim women are required to wear or the patriarchical nature of the faith itself? I ask this because I know that the voice of feminism does have a voice in sweden.

[bcuzbcuz]

I have a question for you and it has nothing to do with nehor. Sweden is quite a feminist society. Have the swedish feminists commented about the dress that muslim women are required to wear or the patriarchical nature of the faith itself? I ask this because I know that the voice of feminism does have a voice in sweden.

Women's issues, or feminism has less influence than you might imagine, actually. The political party Feminist Initiative gathers about 1% of the national vote, the Nazis (SD), on the other hand poll about 25% of the vote. Take all your preconceptions of Sweden and throw them out the window. Sweden is going to hell in a handbasket.

There is some political discussion about wearing a Niqab or a burka. The discussions have also been around females being able to push themselves free from patriarchal control by refusing to wear traditional face covers but those discussions have barely started and find little sympathy amongst the true believers

[Teancum]

And you are calling me condescending?

I am not sure where at least on this thread I called you condescending. Yet on this thread you have said to me:

-If you want to delude yourself into thinking that the church has billions of dollars in liquid assets available for reallocation at a moment's notice you are welcome to delude yourself but don't expect anyone to rebut your absurd beliefs.

-Crises like this are a dime a dozen. Anyone who needs a prophet to tell them to help those in need after a hurricane is a moral imbecile. Same with this. Critics insult us for supposedly following the prophet in preference to all else (a blatant falsehood but that sure doesn't stop them).

-Very hackneyed and cliched attempt at a burn. Please try harder in the future.

So you have either strongly implied that I am delude, hold an absurd belief (which thing you called absurd was something I never argued) referred to my suggestion that LDS leaders provide more guidance on world issues as coming from a moral imbecile and so on.

Really don't be surprised when you hurl such comments that those you hurl at push back.

I will leave at that as the thread author has asked to not make this thread about individuals.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Teancum

[thesometimesaint]

Why me:

 

It was the Status of Forces Agreement signed by Bush that ended the US involvement in Iraq.

SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement/

 

You need to read about the Project For a New America document. Wherein Calls for regime change in Iraq

 

SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Signatories_to_Statement_of_Principles/

 

Ps; Lots of money to be made.

SEE

 

The same has been said about Amerids, The Irish, Italians, Catholics, Jews, Protestants, Mormons, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc., etc., etc..

Edited September 20, 2015 by thesometimesaint

[bcuzbcuz]

I hope that what included in red helps to clarify. However, islam in europe has become much more conservative. It is a reaction against western norms and values. It is not easy to go  to an amusement park and see muslim children dress in a traditional muslim wear in summer. They are 8,9 10 years old. But their brothers are wearing shorts and tank tops. Eventually there will be a clash of civilzations as europe's tolerance becomes threatened by intolerance. The problem with the discussion of the migrants is ommiting the faith of the migrants. It makes a great difference within secular christian societies. And  the question: how much should christians help such migrants who will change the religious landscape of europe?

You need to watch Hans Rosling on YouTube, "How Not To Be Ignorant About The World". You worry too much and Your imaginary threats are over-dimensioned.

[halconero]

Yeah...almost 1/10 people in the Toronto area are Muslim, and 1st or 2nd generation Canadians. We've never had a real problem here, ever. The Muslim girls my age are very modern, very hip, and even the ones who wear things like the Hijab usually have them conformed with styles and trends. About once every 2 months I'll see someone wearing the Niqab or Burka. Even in those cases, the people wearing them tend to be just quiet, friendly, talkative, and keep to themselves. As evidenced by the Niqab Supreme Court case right now here in Canada, even those who wear it want to integrate into Canada while still holding their heritage. It isn't my heritage, but it isn't dangerous to mine either, and there are greater reasons for allowing it than forcing assimilation.

People take relatively uncommon incidents, from a small minority of a population, and call it a trend. Don't fear the Jihadist boogieman. He's real, we know he exists, but he's not on every street corner, not in every boatload of refugees, and relatively absent from Euroamerican politics.

Edited September 20, 2015 by halconero

[The Nehor]

Does this topic have to be about you?

 

Yes.

 

 

So you have either strongly implied that I am delude, hold an absurd belief (which thing you called absurd was something I never argued) referred to my suggestion that LDS leaders provide more guidance on world issues as coming from a moral imbecile and so on.

 

Yep, that is a fair assessment.

 

Poster removed.

[Teancum]

Yes.

Yep, that is a fair assessment.

Are you always this obtuse?

And as noted don't be surprised when others push back when you treat them poorly and act like an imbecile towards them

 

Poster removed.

[The Nehor]

Are you always this obtuse?

And as noted don't be surprised when others push back when you treat them poorly and act like an imbecile towards them

I am never surprised.

[VideoGameJunkie]

Surprisingly Nehors never talked bad about me or said anything condescending to me. He's always been very helpful and supportive when I have questions and a lot of his answers are funny and I can see the humor.

[The Nehor]

Surprisingly Nehors never talked bad about me or said anything condescending to me. He's always been very helpful and supportive when I have questions and a lot of his answers are funny and I can see the humor.

I like you.

[Teancum]

Surprisingly Nehors never talked bad about me or said anything condescending to me. He's always been very helpful and supportive when I have questions and a lot of his answers are funny and I can see the humor.

I have no sense of humor. :-)

[VideoGameJunkie]

I like you too Nehor! Keep being you!

[TheSkepticChristian]

As Christians our responsibilty is to open our hearts and homes to families who can no longer find security in their own homeland.

What responsibilty do we, as Mormons, have? And what can we, as individuals, do to provide security to these refugees?

 

and what about the Mexican refugees? There are mega-cartels, corrupt officers, abusive employers, and tough economic times in Mexico. Most officers in Mexico have a degree of corruption. Illegal immigrants = refugees. 

 

Refugee - "A person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster:" 

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/refugee

 

some strong language

Edited September 22, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian

[Storm Rider]

Yeah...almost 1/10 people in the Toronto area are Muslim, and 1st or 2nd generation Canadians. We've never had a real problem here, ever. The Muslim girls my age are very modern, very hip, and even the ones who wear things like the Hijab usually have them conformed with styles and trends. About once every 2 months I'll see someone wearing the Niqab or Burka. Even in those cases, the people wearing them tend to be just quiet, friendly, talkative, and keep to themselves. As evidenced by the Niqab Supreme Court case right now here in Canada, even those who wear it want to integrate into Canada while still holding their heritage. It isn't my heritage, but it isn't dangerous to mine either, and there are greater reasons for allowing it than forcing assimilation.

People take relatively uncommon incidents, from a small minority of a population, and call it a trend. Don't fear the Jihadist boogieman. He's real, we know he exists, but he's not on every street corner, not in every boatload of refugees, and relatively absent from Euroamerican politics.

 

I appreciate your comments and I also appreciate your experience with Muslims.  Having lived in the Middle East for five years and visited many of the countries from Northern Africa across to the Arabian Gulf my experience with many Muslims is similar to yours.  More importantly, I have studied Islam for many years. 

 

The problem with the concept of Jihad is that it is so fundamental to Islam.  Many moderate Muslim teachers have attempted to make the context of Jihad all about the war to conquer self rather than the requirements to conquer all kafir people or non-Muslims. Fundamentally, and from the very beginning of Islam, Jihad was primarily about conquering all nations and peoples that were not Muslim.  With this foundational belief system any Muslim can be "radicalized" at the moment they seek to get closer to their religion or attempt to become a more strict adherent of Islam.  

 

This is a major problem within Islam today and there are no easy answers or solutions.  There are many wonderful Muslims, but there are some serious problems that Islam has yet to find a solution and it will remain a problem until such a solution is found. 

[thesometimesaint]

I appreciate your comments and I also appreciate your experience with Muslims.  Having lived in the Middle East for five years and visited many of the countries from Northern Africa across to the Arabian Gulf my experience with many Muslims is similar to yours.  More importantly, I have studied Islam for many years. 

 

The problem with the concept of Jihad is that it is so fundamental to Islam.  Many moderate Muslim teachers have attempted to make the context of Jihad all about the war to conquer self rather than the requirements to conquer all kafir people or non-Muslims. Fundamentally, and from the very beginning of Islam, Jihad was primarily about conquering all nations and peoples that were not Muslim.  With this foundational belief system any Muslim can be "radicalized" at the moment they seek to get closer to their religion or attempt to become a more strict adherent of Islam.  

 

This is a major problem within Islam today and there are no easy answers or solutions.  There are many wonderful Muslims, but there are some serious problems that Islam has yet to find a solution and it will remain a problem until such a solution is found. 

 

Just maybe you need to familiarize yourself with the history of Christianity.

[why me]

People take relatively uncommon incidents, from a small minority of a population, and call it a trend. Don't fear the Jihadist boogieman. He's real, we know he exists, but he's not on every street corner, not in every boatload of refugees, and relatively absent from Euroamerican politics.

One in ten is not many. The question is however, what happens when muslims are in the majority? Shia law is not just a religious law but also a law of governance. I am afraid Europe is now going through a drastic change in population shifts. Soon islam will be the second largest relgion in europe if not the first religion. We need to remember that in europe not that many attend church. But the mosques will be full. Plus, the infiltration of isis is a surety. What is christian responsibility as islam makes inroads in countries that are christian? And has islam respected the practice of other faiths without a strongman to protect the other faiths?

 

http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2008/sksamir_islampref_nov08.asp

 

The above was written before of influx of hundreds of thousands of muslims into europe. And pershaps millions.

Edited September 23, 2015 by why me

[thesometimesaint]

Has Christian respected the practice of other faiths without a strongman to protect the other faiths?

 

Simple answer NO!

[carbon dioxide]

One in ten is not many. The question is however, what happens when muslims are in the majority? Shia law is not just a religious law but also a law of governance. I am afraid Europe is now going through a drastic change in population shifts. Soon islam will be the second largest relgion in europe if not the first religion. We need to remember that in europe not that many attend church. But the mosques will be full. Plus, the infiltration of isis is a surety. What is christian responsibility as islam makes inroads in countries that are christian? And has islam respected the practice of other faiths without a strongman to protect the other faiths?

 

http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2008/sksamir_islampref_nov08.asp

 

The above was written before of influx of hundreds of thousands of muslims into europe. And pershaps millions.

Even thought most Europeans are not religious, that does not mean they will put up with Muslims if they attempt to force sharia law into the nations.  There will be problems as one can't have a mass importation of people from the Middle East into western Europe and not have serious cultural clashes.  The eastern European countries seem to be more on the defensive than the western so they may not get hit by as many problems.  Will these Muslims accept western values like free speech?  Can they tolerate people speaking ill of Mohammad.  They better or they will have problems.

[bcuzbcuz]

One in ten is not many. The question is however, what happens when muslims are in the majority? Shia law is not just a religious law but also a law of governance. I am afraid Europe is now going through a drastic change in population shifts. Soon islam will be the second largest relgion in europe if not the first religion. We need to remember that in europe not that many attend church. But the mosques will be full. Plus, the infiltration of isis is a surety. What is christian responsibility as islam makes inroads in countries that are christian? And has islam respected the practice of other faiths without a strongman to protect the other faiths?

 

http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2008/sksamir_islampref_nov08.asp

 

The above was written before of influx of hundreds of thousands of muslims into europe. And pershaps millions.

Well, you´re nothing if not repetitive. You obviously have great fear about what will happen when many thousands of muslims enter into Europe. But your fear is like hearing boogey-man stories. You´ll find numbers of people who agree with you, such as the newly powerful Sverige Democrater (nazi) party in Sweden. But if you check the carefully tabulated numbers on the Wikipedia page of the list of people killed by terrorist, from 1980´s. 1990´s, 2000´s and 2010´s, the numbers killed by the Coalition of 1990 and 2003, you´ll find the numbers lost from allied attacks and bombings far outnumber the terrorist murders.

If European and immigrant societies are to find common ground they will need to look for common good. That will require soul searching from both sides. Will it be easy? No.Is it necessary? Yes.

[why me]

Well, you´re nothing if not repetitive. You obviously have great fear about what will happen when many thousands of muslims enter into Europe. But your fear is like hearing boogey-man stories. You´ll find numbers of people who agree with you, such as the newly powerful Sverige Democrater (nazi) party in Sweden. But if you check the carefully tabulated numbers on the Wikipedia page of the list of people killed by terrorist, from 1980´s. 1990´s, 2000´s and 2010´s, the numbers killed by the Coalition of 1990 and 2003, you´ll find the numbers lost from allied attacks and bombings far outnumber the terrorist murders.

If European and immigrant societies are to find common ground they will need to look for common good. That will require soul searching from both sides. Will it be easy? No.Is it necessary? Yes.

Actually, I am a researcher and yes, my research does confirm that many people do have fear. And when they are asked why they have fear the answer is basically, because we don't know who these migrants are.  In other words, they have no ID and many are young men. I have also talked with women who basically also have fear. Why? Because of their experiences. Young muslim men looking at their breasts, approaching them and telling them how beautiful they look etc. So, there is fear there too. We must acknowlede people's fears and concern without the far right card being played. Not to mention the budget cuts that are affecting all european countries as welfare states are rolled back leaving people to the whims of the market. Many europeans wonder just how this will all play out. Not to mention the thousands of Isis operatives now in europe and still  coming to europe. People have fear about this too. And what does someone tell the mother who suddenly wakes up oneday and finds the building not far from her home now houses 100 to 150 young male migrants with no backgroud checks. She has two daughters aged 10 and 12 who need to walk by that building that this mom should have no fear.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/555434/Islamic-State-ISIS-Smuggler-THOUSANDS-Extremists-into-Europe-Refugees

 

And the below link was before the currrent migrant crisis:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2958517/The-Mediterranean-sea-chaos-Gaddafi-s-chilling-prophecy-interview-ISIS-threatens-send-500-000-migrants-Europe-psychological-weapon-bombed.html

 

 

Common good? Many christians are trapped in Iraq and in Syria. The Syrian government is protecting the syrian christian community from the jihadists. But if that government falls, the christians will be slaugthered. I would gladly welcome these christians to europe or to anywhere else they wish to go. But they can't leave because no matter where they turn they may face death. I see no sympathy for these christians in western governments declarations. No common good for the christians. I have said this before: I would love if the pope or lds leaders would bring up the plight of the christians. But....hard to find anything from any one in positions of power.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11846651/Lord-Carey-Britain-has-a-duty-to-rescue-Syrias-Christians.html

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/424401/christians-yazidis-persecuted-iraq-syria-refugees-excluded

 

What happened to christian responsibility? The christians are facing a sad end as muslims head to europe leaving the christians to face death. Common responsibility? We need to remember that many muslims lived in peace with them during the assad families rule. Now? They owe them some common responsilibity.

 

Of course, only the future can tell us what it will be.

 

Political again