stemelbow Posted September 14, 2015 Author Posted September 14, 2015 I don't know. Pity always seems demeaning to me. i have never met an emotionally healthy person who wants to be pitied. Maybe pity is the wrong word, then. But everyone, as I've seen, seems to want to have sympathy and concern.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) A reason I'm scared of exaltation and having eternal increase of spirit children is the thought of one of my spirit children becoming a devil and losing 1/3 of my children and having to separate myself from others if they're not worthy enough for eternity. I would never be able to accept losing just 1 child for eternity. I don't know how God handled it in the pre mortal world or how He handles losing His children forever. Edited September 14, 2015 by VideoGameJunkie 2
The Nehor Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Maybe pity is the wrong word, then. But everyone, as I've seen, seems to want to have sympathy and concern.Not me for you see:I am a rock, I am an island.And a rock feels no pain;And an island never cries.
stemelbow Posted September 14, 2015 Author Posted September 14, 2015 Not me for you see: I am a rock, I am an island. And a rock feels no pain; And an island never cries. Well I wish I were you then.
The Nehor Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 A reason I'm scared of exaltation and having eternal increase of spirit children is the thought of one of my spirit children becoming a devil and losing 1/3 of my children and having to separate myself from others if they're not worthy enough for eternity. I would never be able to accept losing just 1 child for eternity. I don't know how God handled it in the pre mortal world or how He handles losing His children forever.A reason I'm scared of exaltation and having eternal increase of spirit children is the thought of one of my spirit children becoming a devil and losing 1/3 of my children and having to separate myself from others if they're not worthy enough for eternity. I would never be able to accept losing just 1 child for eternity. I don't know how God handled it in the pre mortal world or how He handles losing His children forever.Even God sorrows. Our sorrows may be greater but our joys will be greater by many magnitudes greater then our sorrows.
The Nehor Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Well I wish I were you then.Don't we all? That is from a Simon and Garfunkel song where the singer is lying to himself. It was meant to be ironic.
ttribe Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 I don't know. Pity always seems demeaning to me. i have never met an emotionally healthy person who wants to be pitied. Not sure why you would think it would be a good idea to insult someone who you believe is not "emotionally healthy."
The Nehor Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Not sure why you would think it would be a good idea to insult someone who you believe is not "emotionally healthy."I don't plan that far ahead.
jwhitlock Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Thanks. I can certainly agree that keeping it all simple is helpful. For instance, I would rather live the refrain love my neighbor than suggest to him/her that their being gay hurts my marriage, or something. Too much underlies that latter approach. Something inside me really has a tough time with the exclusivity of Church. I don't want to feel like I love or preference LDS over others. I want others preferenced, because they aren't me. If that make sense.Thanks for your thoughts, though. I find them helpful. It also helps to lower the bar on our expectations. Most of us hold that bar way to high when it comes to the church and its members and its history. Elder Holland echoed that same sentiment when he noted (and I paraphrase) that the Lord has to work with imperfect people; why should we have higher expectations than that? Everything that people find problematic with the church is something that you perhaps should expect to find, because the church is composed of people who are representative of the demographics of the society in which they live. They'll have many of the same biases, pride, weaknesses, misunderstandings, etc. that most of the people around them have. People who come into the church need to work on leaving the world behind, but very few of us are actually even moderately successful at doing that. You're correct about some people who come into the church being exclusive; it's human nature to do so, and I would expect those types of people to be some of those in the church. Unfortunately, they often seem more representational of what the church stands for than is appropriate. But since I expect them to be there, and understand that what they're doing is wrong, and that the church is there to try to help them fix that over time, I can let it slide off my back a little bit better. There are significant blessings in being a member of the church. Find what fits for you in your current state, and feast on that. Ignore the noise, because its not important. I think as you do so, you'll notice other people who are doing the same thing; they do tend to fly under the radar a bit, since they have started to understand what being a humble follower of Christ really means.
jwhitlock Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 A reason I'm scared of exaltation and having eternal increase of spirit children is the thought of one of my spirit children becoming a devil and losing 1/3 of my children and having to separate myself from others if they're not worthy enough for eternity. I would never be able to accept losing just 1 child for eternity. I don't know how God handled it in the pre mortal world or how He handles losing His children forever. I don't think any of us really want to be God at this point. We have enough trouble trying to be responsible for ourselves, let alone our families. In our current mortal state, we are so limited that we can't really understand - or our mind shies away from - what exaltation really entails. From what I understand, there are significant constraints removed when we get to the other side and receive our resurrection. Only then can we start to see what the real possibilities are. For the time being, it makes more sense to me to recognize exaltation and becoming like God as a doctrine, but to put the logistics of how it's going to work aside until I've been changed enough to understand them. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Oh I shouldn't even worry about exaltation for myself anyway, because of the you know, sins of my life.
ttribe Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 I don't plan that far ahead. Of that, I have no doubt.
jwhitlock Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Oh I shouldn't even worry about exaltation for myself anyway, because of the you know, sins of my life. You're not the only one. We're all going to need some significant cleaning up when we get to the other side. However, do the things that you need to do (obtaining the ordinances and making the covenants) and then develop an ongoing relationship with Christ that includes an understanding of repentance and humility. Lay the burden on Him and let HIm do the heavy lifting to get you to where you (and the rest of us) need to be. Don't know if you've looked at the new addiction recovery videos on the church web site. Not to say that you have an addiction, but they are rather powerful in a general way about coming to Christ and finding relief. Anyone can benefit from taking a look at them. Gives a lot of hope. 1
The Nehor Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Oh I shouldn't even worry about exaltation for myself anyway, because of the you know, sins of my life.All but one of the people going to exaltation were also sinners. It is not a disqualifier. 1
The Nehor Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Of that, I have no doubt.I will take that as a compliment.
jkwilliams Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Well I wish I were you then.I wish that I could be Richard Corry.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 What sins do you think would disqualify a person from exaltation? I can think of murder, blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, and possibly adultery or fornication after being temple endowed.
jwhitlock Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 What sins do you think would disqualify a person from exaltation? I can think of murder, blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, and possibly adultery or fornication after being temple endowed. God telling you that you're disqualified.
ttribe Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 I wish that I could be Richard Corry. Uhh, things didn't end well for him. Perhaps someone else would be better? BTW, I'll take Bruce Wayne.
jwhitlock Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 I wish that I could be Richard Corry. This guy?
Guest Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Depending on the day, hour or week we all feel this way. Emotions carry us round and round of a wheel, it is up to us to hang on tight each and remember the joy of knowing and believing to give us the strength to hold on while riding through the valley of death.
jkwilliams Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Uhh, things didn't end well for him. Perhaps someone else would be better?BTW, I'll take Bruce Wayne.I just figured we were doing Simon and Garfunkel.
ttribe Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 I just figured we were doing Simon and Garfunkel. Ah, got it.
Bobbieaware Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) I'm a lost and fallen soul. I'll always be, I suppose. I don't know that I'll dig my way out. I'm troubled by doctrinal teaching and many things associated therewith. I'm sure I'm as faithless and foolish as any ever could be. That's probably my problem and someone might conclude, well you just have to pray harder to fix yourself, or whatever.Fine. I'm fine if that's the case. Perhaps it's me, inherently. Perhaps my eternal-self was meant to be a bit of a faithless fool who would never catch on and never be expected to be saved or exalted. Perhaps I'm one of those--he who many members look down upon and perhaps shrug because after all not all will be exalted. It simply won't happen. And let's face it, every message we've ever received would suggest by far most people won't be exalted. I've asked here a number of times why anyone would want exaltation if most will not get it? It seems to me it'd be far too painful to be he who is exalted while many of his loved ones are not. I couldn't bare it, myself, I figure, and so I'd probably be happiest in the lesser place anywho. Oh but there is pain in me wondering what'd be like to settle for something less. I don't know which eternal pain would be worst. Honestly. my hope is is that the Church is wrong in how it's defined things--he who is exalted and all that exaltation means. Maybe someday we'll learn all will be exalted. Well, I'd probably gladly accept if child rapists aren't, but I mean nearly all.I go to Church these days feeling like no one else gets it, realizing when it comes down to it, I'm probably the one who doesn't get it. Everything I hear at Church would be painful to everyone, it seems, who are not members (well save for a very few). I wish it was different, that Church was such a place that it was meaningful to more people. It's not and for thinking like that I'm rebellious, faithless and on the brink of apostasy to most of my supposed ward-family members. I think the Church makes mistakes, but overall hopes to do good. I don't see it as inspired as most in my ward do. I see it as semi-inspired, frankly, much like I see many people and orgs. The Church is little in the world...little in impact and little in influence (I realize many would argue for having such a small percentage we make a pretty big impact, which I concede, but it should be a bigger impact with more people, I'd argue). There are too many other things for God to work with to make a bigger impact, and probably does. If He does, that must mean something. I'm going with that, for now...the Church is just one tiny teeny little piece of all that God does. And with everything else, it is doing things wrong in some respects.Every Sunday afternoon after I attend Church, these are the types of thoughts running through my head. I welcome your thoughts. I need fixing, after all.What you are experiencing often turns out to be a very normal and to-be-expected part of the journey toward ultimate salvation. Some members of the human family seem to need to taste a lot of life's bitterness before they're truly able recognize and fully appreciate God"s light, and prize the good. Alma and the sons of Mosiah spent plenty of time wandering in strange roads and darkness before the time was right for them to receive the light of God with relief and great gladness. Just think of it as being an essential part of your heavenly education. The Lord himself said no less: 55 And the Lord spake unto Adam, saying: Inasmuch as thy children are conceived in sin, even so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, AND THEY TASTE THE BITTER, THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW TO PRIZE THE GOOD. (Moses 5)Even some of the most noble and great spirit children of God have experienced what you're going through. So take heart, you might very well be one of them. Edited September 14, 2015 by Bobbieaware 1
jkwilliams Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 What you are experiencing often turns out to be a very normal and to-be-expected part of the journey toward ultimate salvation. Some members of the human family seem to need to taste a lot of life's bitterness before they're truly able recognize and fully appreciate God"s light, and prize the good. Alma and the sons of Mosiah spent plenty of time wandering in strange roads and darkness before the time was right for them to receive the light of God with relief and great gladness. Just think of it as being an essential part of your heavenly education. The Lord himself said no less:55 And the Lord spake unto Adam, saying: Inasmuch as thy children are conceived in sin, even so when they begin to grow up, sin conceiveth in their hearts, AND THEY TASTE THE BITTER, THAT THEY MIGHT KNOW TO PRIZE THE GOOD. (Moses 5)Even some of the most noble and great spirit children of God have experienced what you're going through. So take heart, you might very well be one of them. I'm not seeing anything bitter, just the normal human experience of figuring out how to get through life the best we can.
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