VideoGameJunkie Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Update on my condition and feelings. I was off my meds, especially my anti anxiety meds for a week and a half because of insurance issues and that caused me to unreasonably worry about what I felt was very important. I can say that as of yesterday I was back on my meds and my mom put my name on the temple prayer roll so I feel a lot more spiritual now and closer to the church and less care about any of the issues brought up. When I don't have my meds I worry about everything like it's the end of the world or most important thing like I was feeling compassion for lobsters in the tank at the grocery store and almost crying. That's just a sneak preview of what goes on inside my head. 1
RevTestament Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 gland you are feeling less anxious about things
readstoomuch Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 Update on my condition and feelings. I was off my meds, especially my anti anxiety meds for a week and a half because of insurance issues and that caused me to unreasonably worry about what I felt was very important. I can say that as of yesterday I was back on my meds and my mom put my name on the temple prayer roll so I feel a lot more spiritual now and closer to the church and less care about any of the issues brought up. When I don't have my meds I worry about everything like it's the end of the world or most important thing like I was feeling compassion for lobsters in the tank at the grocery store and almost crying. That's just a sneak preview of what goes on inside my head.Sounds like a great time to take a break from the negative and just have a good month of positive thinking. We all eventual go through paranoid or anxious moments in our life, not just you.
cinepro Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 I edited my post to include the correct verses (somehow incorrect verses got pasted).In answer to your question, after reading Hugh Nibley's 'The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyri,' I'm quite certain that the endowment, for the most part, is ancient. It seems to me that endowment ceremony used to coronate the ancient Egyptian pharohs appears too similar to the modern endowment to be coincidental. So do you subscribe to the idea that the Masonic ceremonies have an ancient origin as well, and that they were an altered version of the original endowment ceremony?
readstoomuch Posted September 19, 2015 Posted September 19, 2015 So do you subscribe to the idea that the Masonic ceremonies have an ancient origin as well, and that they were an altered version of the original endowment ceremony?I would refer you to any of Greg Kearney`s podcasts about Mormonism and Masonry. He is both. You would also have to take into account that Egyptian ceremonies resembled our endowment, as well as the ancient texts in the appendix of The Message of the Joseph Smith Papyrus, An Egyptian Endowment.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) The similarities between Masons and Mormons still bugs me because of the ties of Satanic worship to 33rd degree Masons. Joseph Smith created the endowment right after he became a 33rd degree Mason and this link here http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_brotherhoodss01c.htmtalks about that worship and about man becoming Gods which Joseph Smith mentioned man can become. It can cause worry that there are satanic elements in the endowment ceremony and ties to Masons wanting to be Gods like Mormons believe thanks to Joseph Smith after becoming a Mason. Why would Joseph Smith join a group that has Satanic ties and bring a lot to the Mormon church if it's so wrong? Edited September 23, 2015 by VideoGameJunkie
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 And this article tying Satan and Masons. http://www.bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htmWouldn't the prophet of God Joseph Smith know about these ties as a 33rd degree Mason?
carbon dioxide Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 And this article tying Satan and Masons. http://www.bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htmWouldn't the prophet of God Joseph Smith know about these ties as a 33rd degree Mason?Joseph was not a 33 degree Mason. Keep in mind that in those days, Masonry was more common than today. There is nothing evil about masonry. Many of the founding fathers were masons. Some Christians make false claims about masonry and they like to cite Albert Pike but Mr Pike hardly is one who defines masonry nor do all masons agree with him. Masonry is just a boggieman scapegoat that some people use to scare people.
carbon dioxide Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) The similarities between Masons and Mormons still bugs me because of the ties of Satanic worship to 33rd degree Masons. Joseph Smith created the endowment right after he became a 33rd degree Mason and this link here http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_brotherhoodss01c.htmtalks about that worship and about man becoming Gods which Joseph Smith mentioned man can become. It can cause worry that there are satanic elements in the endowment ceremony and ties to Masons wanting to be Gods like Mormons believe thanks to Joseph Smith after becoming a Mason. Why would Joseph Smith join a group that has Satanic ties and bring a lot to the Mormon church if it's so wrong?Anyone who thinks there is satanic elements in the endowment have not been through an endowment session. Symbols can be used in many different ways by different people. To some people, the pentagram is evil and satanic. To another there is nothing satanic about it. It has been used in even Christian ways long before anyone ever thought of putting a satanic meaning to the pentagram. If Joseph Smith used masonic symbols, he did not bring the masonic meanings with them. Symbols are good at teaching people truth and helping them to remember it. Keep in mind that since a number of LDS members where masons, it would be quite risky for Joseph Smith to just use masonry into the endowment without causing a controversy. If the LDS masons did not see the endowment to have much to do with masonry, why should those who are not masons be worried about any connection? Edited September 23, 2015 by carbon dioxide
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I'm pretty sure I heard Joseph Smith was a 33rd degree Mason and then made the endowment ceremony. How do you know he wasn't?
carbon dioxide Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 (edited) I'm pretty sure I heard Joseph Smith was a 33rd degree Mason and then made the endowment ceremony. How do you know he wasn't?Because the rite was not introduced when he was alive but afterwards. I believe he was a 3rd degree Mason. Edited September 23, 2015 by carbon dioxide
readstoomuch Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I still refer you to Greg Kearneys podcasts about Mormons and Masons. I think until you hear him talk about it, you don`t really understand the connections.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Does Greg Kearney talk about that Masons also believe man can become a god and Joseph smith revealed that men can become gods in D&C after he was a Mason?
carbon dioxide Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 Does Greg Kearney talk about that Masons also believe man can become a god and Joseph smith revealed that men can become gods in D&C after he was a Mason?Does the idea that men can becomes God have to come from Masonry?
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 23, 2015 Posted September 23, 2015 I'm just saying Joseph was a Mason he learned stuff then he preaches to Mormons things that he learned in Masonry as canon and doctrine and necessary for salvation and exaltation AFTER learning about masonry.
readstoomuch Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 there were temple ceremonies in the Kirkland Temple. They weren`t as elaborate as in Nauvoo, but the idea for the endowment started early. Long before he became a mason. I think you will understand some of the concepts after you listen to a podcast.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 I like baptisms and laying on hands for the gift of the holy ghost and receiving the priesthood and temple sealings, but I've never felt comfortable or at peace in an endowment session. I've done sealings and felt wonderful, I've done baptisms and ordinations and felt wonderful, but I've always felt confused and akward during endowment sessions like something was off. It's been that way for 10 years.
readstoomuch Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 google Greg Kearney and Mormondiscussionpodcast. It should come right up. He also has an article on FairMormon that I thought was really good.
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 (edited) This is my last post that I can make until 11:44PM, but I find the FairMormon articles biased for the church and don't give a good 3rd party view. Hearing church sources is just like hearing everything I've heard my whole life. I desire to hear other sources to make my judgements on. This CES letter showed a different point of view on so many issues that dig deep and raise questions. the FairMormon articles and reading the scriptures don't satisfy my need for the answers I was looking for. Like all of Joseph Smith's lies and dirty secrets while under God's power. Smith's lies and dirty secrets include his false translation of the Egyptian stuff and his lying about polygamy and destroying the printing press and marrying other men's wives. A man of God who had revelations unlike any other prophet should have made wiser decisions and not made so many mistakes as prophet seer and revelator. Edited September 24, 2015 by VideoGameJunkie 1
readstoomuch Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 An article by Greg Kearney published on FairMormon is perfectly acceptable and a balanced article. CES Letter is a very compact unbalanced anti-Mormon tome. The answers are not as simple and easy explain as a nice quick jab. I don`t agree with your assessment of "Like all of Joseph Smith`s lies and dirty secrets while under God`s power." 2
webbles Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 An article by Greg Kearney published on FairMormon is perfectly acceptable and a balanced article. CES Letter is a very compact unbalanced anti-Mormon tome. The answers are not as simple and easy explain as a nice quick jab. I don`t agree with your assessment of "Like all of Joseph Smith`s lies and dirty secrets while under God`s power."The article on FairMormon is at http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/publications/ask-the-apologist-similarities-between-masonic-and-mormon-temple-ritual
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 It seemed like Joseph Smith was the only prophet who had tons of revelations. With the exception of Spencer W Kimball in 1978 what other revelations have prophets had? It seemed Joseph Smith had them constantly.
readstoomuch Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 Let's stick with a topic until it is answered. Mormonism and Masonry was where you were heading. Did you like Greg Kearney's interview?
RevTestament Posted September 24, 2015 Posted September 24, 2015 It seemed like Joseph Smith was the only prophet who had tons of revelations. With the exception of Spencer W Kimball in 1978 what other revelations have prophets had? It seemed Joseph Smith had them constantly.Actually, he had relatively few while in Nauvoo. It is true he was the prophet on whom was laid much power. But he is not the last seer nor prophet the church will have. Was he perfect? No. He was a man who made mistakes. Even Moses made mistakes. But he did manage to restore many truths. If one just considers the truths of the revelations, it is clear he was a prophet. When one starts looking at the man, one sees a few warts. If not, he wouldn't be human. Why did the revelations stop? Because he received what the Gentiles needed until the time of the Gentiles was fulfilled. 1
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