More Than A Million Refugees

[bcuzbcuz]

The wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria have started a flood of over a million refugees trying to find refuge in Europe. A quick look at a map shows how the refugees must travel from Syria, to Turkey, to Greece, to Hungary, to Germany, all in search for a secure place for their family and children. Governments throughout Europe do what governments do best: Point fingers at someone else who should be doing something. The masses of people just continues to increase.

What is the church in Europe doing to help the refugees? I ask because I don't know and I'm not hearing anything from the church authorities here.

[hagoth7]

The wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria have started a flood of over a million refugees trying to find refuge in Europe. A quick look at a map shows how the refugees must travel from Syria, to Turkey, to Greece, to Hungary, to Germany, all in search for a secure place for their family and children. Governments throughout Europe do what governments do best: Point fingers at someone else who should be doing something. The masses of people just continues to increase.

What is the church in Europe doing to help the refugees? I ask because I don't know and I'm not hearing anything from the church authorities here.

We don't control federal policy, but we can each contact policy makers and ask them to change policy to allow more refugees into wherever country we happen to live. As in:

"New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

[volgadon]

The church has been providing aid to refugee camps in Jordan for some years now.

[Calm]

Also sent money to Vicar of Bagdad as a start awile back

[The Nehor]

We don't control federal policy, but we can each contact policy makers and ask them to change policy to allow more refugees into wherever country we happen to live. As in:

"New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

Cue current debates about which of our borders need big walls.

[bluebell]

https://www.lds.org/church/news/beruit-branch-members-pack-food-boxes-to-help-syrian-refugees?lang=eng

 

This was happening in Beirut.  I just saw something on Facebook that the LDS church in the US is doing but i'm still looking for it.  

[bluebell]

Here it is-

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865565323/LDS-Charities-gives-million-dollar-humanitarian-effort-for-Syrian-refugees.html?pg=all

[Storm Rider]

I am not sure it is the job of every country in the world to provide care for every individual who wants to move from their country to another country.  There is not a single individual that enters a boat in northern Africa that is not cognizant that it is not seaworthy and is a death trap.  Why is it the responsibility for Europe to support these people?

 

We need to be talking about the responsibility of each individual in every country to participate in their government and to care about who is in charge and their performance.  Militaries do not exist without the participation of the people; paramilitary groups do not exist without individuals willing to participate.

 

Why aren't any of these people trying to migrate to Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, or Kuwait?  Targeting those countries would allow them to enjoy a culture similar to their own and their own language. 

 

Having lived in France I can tell you that many cities in Southern France are overrun with Arabs that have no interest in French culture, the French language, or anything else that is French.  I suspect this is the same in every other country that these people enter.  There is no motivation to assimilate; they enter illegally, retain the culture that has utterly failed them and demand that Europe pay them for the occupying their country.  Why?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Cue current debates about which of our borders need big walls.

 

You know Nehor no one is saying that we should not let them into this country. In fact the GB is trying to do just that. But sectary of state wont let that happen.

 

Sorry to bring his name up as I am sure you cannot even handle that. But he is doing good and I don't see you do anything but belittle people and try to make them seem stupid.

 

"I don't try to make them seem stupid the do that on their own". Yeah predicable.  In stead of being part of of the problem of doing nothing why don't you actually try to do something for a change.

 

So go take your clown comments to another board please. They are getting old.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[The Nehor]

Having lived in France I can tell you that many cities in Southern France are overrun with Arabs that have no interest in French culture, the French language, or anything else that is French.  I suspect this is the same in every other country that these people enter.  There is no motivation to assimilate; they enter illegally, retain the culture that has utterly failed them and demand that Europe pay them for the occupying their country.  Why?

This is normal for first and second generation immigrants. Then it changes with time. The same arguments about lack of integration have been thrown around in the USA since John Adams was president and we still survive.

If we want to be a city on a hill we need to act like one. In both the bible and the Book of Mormon we have strong counsel to be kind to the stranger in our lands and the Nephites actually left land to give it to immigrating Lamanites. The sons of Helaman never seemed to "integrate" entirely. They had their own military unit and own traditions. They were the ones God smiled on the most too since they were not riddled with kingmen opportunistically trying to make a buck and seize power from the war like the rest of the Nephites were.

[The Nehor]

You know Nehor no one is saying that we should not let them into this country. In fact the GB is trying to do just that. But sectary of state wont let that happen.

 

Sorry to bring his name up as I am sure you cannot even handle that. But he is doing good and I don't see you do anything but belittle people and try to make them seem stupid.

 

"I don't try to make them seem stupid the do that on their own". Yeah predicable.  In stead of being part of of the problem of doing nothing why don't you actually try to do something for a change.

 

So go take your clown comments to another board please. They are getting old.

But you are so much fun to provoke.

[bluebell]

Why is it the responsibility for Europe to support these people?

"And the second like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

 

We need to be talking about the responsibility of each individual in every country to participate in their government and to care about who is in charge and their performance.  Militaries do not exist without the participation of the people; paramilitary groups do not exist without individuals willing to participate.

 

 

Do you believe you'd have better luck dealing with ISIS?

 

Why aren't any of these people trying to migrate to Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, or Kuwait?  Targeting those countries would allow them to enjoy a culture similar to their own and their own language. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/04/the-arab-worlds-wealthiest-nations-are-doing-next-to-nothing-for-syrias-refugees/

[Avatar4321]

I think we are in the early stages of world war three. Been hearing that the Russians are moving in Syria.

Time to hold fast to the Lord

[busybee]

My heart breaks for the children caught up in this tragedy and I feel that families with children should be given priority when it comes to providing refuge.

 

Unfortunately, among the masses there are many 'economic migrants' who want to get  to Europe for a 'better life'. European countries are only just beginning to recover from the economic crash and are not able to support everyone who 'wants a better life'. There are ways of getting legal access to any country if economics is the only reason for going there. There seem to be so many men of 'fighting age' who could, if banded together,form a strong opposition to the forces that are destroying their countries at them moment. But the US and UK forces are doing that so they are just leaving it to them to sort out. Surely the countries should bring in conscription and fight their enemies as well, alongside foreign forces.

 

Again, families with small children need all the help that can be given.

 

FYI Britain increased the amount that they are spending on the crisis by £100 million today, bringing their total spend on this crisis so far to £1 billion 

[Storm Rider]

This is normal for first and second generation immigrants. Then it changes with time. The same arguments about lack of integration have been thrown around in the USA since John Adams was president and we still survive.

If we want to be a city on a hill we need to act like one. In both the bible and the Book of Mormon we have strong counsel to be kind to the stranger in our lands and the Nephites actually left land to give it to immigrating Lamanites. The sons of Helaman never seemed to "integrate" entirely. They had their own military unit and own traditions. They were the ones God smiled on the most too since they were not riddled with kingmen opportunistically trying to make a buck and seize power from the war like the rest of the Nephites were.

 

I think you are mixing apples and oranges.  A military group is not a group of migrants going into a new country.  

 

I also think your position on assimilation and its benefits is nieve.  The probelm is that we have populations in the US that refuse to assimilate and in their separateness they cause problems in their new land.  Arabs, particularly Muslims, do not assimilate in any new culture.  As someone who has lived among Muslims for over five years I recognize that as a culture they do not assimilate easily in foreign, non-Muslim lands.  This is problematic and will continue to be a problem for the long term.

 

A Balkanization of any country - i.e. groups that refuse to assimilate - easily and quickly can destroy a nation.  The weakness of the "salad bowl" theory and its attack on the strength of the Melting Pot approach to creating a strong society and culture is evident.  

 

I strongly encourage the teaching of foreign languages in schools and appreiciate when individuals master multiple languages; however, I am also a strong supporter of having a single language that everyone can speak and understand.  Governments should support that single language, whatever it is, and if somone comes to that country they will either speak the language or they themselves will encounter constant problems by not being able to understand anything.  The lack of understanding is a personal problem and it is not the responsibility of the state to communicate in multiple languages to those who do not speak the common language are enabled to remain a separate person.

 

Lastly, there are legal methods to migrate to every country on earth.  If someone chooses to ignore the legal process of any nation, why should a nation provide support to those illegal aliens?  I promise you, in the MIddle East illegal aliens are quickly and easily dealt with in a complete manner.  Those with expired VISAS or no VISA are put in jail.  Upon completing their term they are taken from the jail to the airport and put on a jet back to their country of origin.  No questions, no explanations, no excuses.  You either follow the laws of the land or you go back to your mother country.

[bcuzbcuz]

Here it is-

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865565323/LDS-Charities-gives-million-dollar-humanitarian-effort-for-Syrian-refugees.html?pg=all

Thank you

[The Nehor]

I think you are mixing apples and oranges.  A military group is not a group of migrants going into a new country.  

 

I am pretty sure the mothers of the stripling warriors were not in the army and they immigrated too.

 

I also think your position on assimilation and its benefits is nieve.  The probelm is that we have populations in the US that refuse to assimilate and in their separateness they cause problems in their new land.  Arabs, particularly Muslims, do not assimilate in any new culture.  As someone who has lived among Muslims for over five years I recognize that as a culture they do not assimilate easily in foreign, non-Muslim lands.  This is problematic and will continue to be a problem for the long term.

 

Again, this was said about Irish immigrants and German immigrants and many of them were very cliquish when they came to the United States. We had some problems at first but now your European ancestry is a conversational footnote.

 

The idea that Arabs cannot integrate if pretty unproven. When I was on my mission in England I saw how much trouble they had integrating and also saw the root cause: systemic racism on both sides. This can be overcome. Large-scale emigration from the Middle East is relatively new. Already their children are more European and American in culture then they are tied to their native lands. If we welcome them as fellow citizens the problem will melt away quickly enough.

 

Or we can keep them separate as best we can. They will form their own culture and we can have the equivalent of Jews in the Middle Ages in our midst and our mutual intolerance can keep us separated forever.

 

A Balkanization of any country - i.e. groups that refuse to assimilate - easily and quickly can destroy a nation.  The weakness of the "salad bowl" theory and its attack on the strength of the Melting Pot approach to creating a strong society and culture is evident.  

 

Balkanization is only a problem when the cultures hate each other. America is a mutt of Europeans and Natives mixed in with a dollop of people from all over the world. I like being part of a mutt society.

 

 

I strongly encourage the teaching of foreign languages in schools and appreiciate when individuals master multiple languages; however, I am also a strong supporter of having a single language that everyone can speak and understand.  Governments should support that single language, whatever it is, and if somone comes to that country they will either speak the language or they themselves will encounter constant problems by not being able to understand anything.  The lack of understanding is a personal problem and it is not the responsibility of the state to communicate in multiple languages to those who do not speak the common language are enabled to remain a separate person.

 

Non sequitur

 

 

Lastly, there are legal methods to migrate to every country on earth.  If someone chooses to ignore the legal process of any nation, why should a nation provide support to those illegal aliens?  I promise you, in the MIddle East illegal aliens are quickly and easily dealt with in a complete manner.  Those with expired VISAS or no VISA are put in jail.  Upon completing their term they are taken from the jail to the airport and put on a jet back to their country of origin.  No questions, no explanations, no excuses.  You either follow the laws of the land or you go back to your mother country.

 

Here is a handy infographic for US immigration:

 

 

As to comparing the US to the Middle East.....really.....why? Are you suggesting we should emulate them? That we should sit on our laurels because we are not that draconian?

[carbon dioxide]

 

Balkanization is only a problem when the cultures hate each other. America is a mutt of Europeans and Natives mixed in with a dollop of people from all over the world. I like being part of a mutt society.

 

America is divided on a number of levels and it is getting worse.  Racial, political, social, economic, religious, ect.  Our divisions are a little different than what is in other places but it still is a problem and may result in long term instability in this county. 

[The Nehor]

America is divided on a number of levels and it is getting worse.  Racial, political, social, economic, religious, ect.  Our divisions are a little different than what is in other places but it still is a problem and may result in long term instability in this county. 

 

I would argue that the economic divisions are the more worrying as extreme wealth disparities are the biggest causes of revolutions and intense civil strife but I am told that bringing up the problem means I am an advocate of "class warfare". Not sure why when I want to address the problem to prevent some classes from looting and raping other classes but, you know how rhetoric is divorced from reason.

[bcuzbcuz]

I am pretty sure the mothers of the stripling warriors were not in the army and they immigrated too.

 

 

Again, this was said about Irish immigrants and German immigrants and many of them were very cliquish when they came to the United States. We had some problems at first but now your European ancestry is a conversational footnote.

 

The idea that Arabs cannot integrate if pretty unproven. When I was on my mission in England I saw how much trouble they had integrating and also saw the root cause: systemic racism on both sides. This can be overcome. Large-scale emigration from the Middle East is relatively new. Already their children are more European and American in culture then they are tied to their native lands. If we welcome them as fellow citizens the problem will melt away quickly enough.

 

Or we can keep them separate as best we can. They will form their own culture and we can have the equivalent of Jews in the Middle Ages in our midst and our mutual intolerance can keep us separated forever.

 

 

Balkanization is only a problem when the cultures hate each other. America is a mutt of Europeans and Natives mixed in with a dollop of people from all over the world. I like being part of a mutt society.

 

 

 

Here is a handy infographic for US immigration:

 

 

As to comparing the US to the Middle East.....really.....why? Are you suggesting we should emulate them? That we should sit on our laurels because we are not that draconian?

I love your "handy infographic for immigration. In reality, it is even worse. I saw a hidden camera filming of an interview with an immigration agent here in Europe, interviewing a 14 year old Tunisian boy who had entered the country without any adult accompanying. The boy was provided with a translator that had a completely different dialect. The boy and the translator did not fully understand each other. The agent demanded answers that the boy was totally incapable of answering. The agent repeated many questions, even when an answer had been provided, that clearly conveyed that the answer was not good enough. The agent demanded papers that could only have been provided by authorities, again, things the boy did not have. Finally the boy bolted from the room, in tears, and the agent smugly stamped the immigration papers as invalid while mumbling "That screwed his goose."

History shows that immigrants are short term expenditures but long term benefits for countries. Where would Canada be without immigrants? Where would the US be without immigrants? I live in Sweden, (our king comes from an immmigrant family.) Now it's time for the European countries to welcome the flood of people forced by war to wander from country to country to be accepted, realistically as expenses now but as contributing citizens later.

[carbon dioxide]

History shows that immigrants are short term expenditures but long term benefits for countries. Where would Canada be without immigrants? Where would the US be without immigrants? I live in Sweden, (our king comes from an immmigrant family.) Now it's time for the European countries to welcome the flood of people forced by war to wander from country to country to be accepted, realistically as expenses now but as contributing citizens later.

Controlled immigration yes.  Hordes of people coming in and many who do not understand the culture and way of life and may not integrate well of where they are going to is probably not a good idea. 

Edited September 5, 2015 by carbon dioxide

[hagoth7]

Cue current debates about which of our borders need big walls.

I don't quite follow the intended meaning of your post. Pure sarcasm, perhaps? Something else?

[The Nehor]

I don't quite follow the intended meaning of your post. Pure sarcasm, perhaps? Something else?

 

Uncle Sam is sad.

[The Nehor]

Controlled immigration yes.  Hordes of people coming in and many who do not understand the culture and way of life and may not integrate well of where they are going to is probably not a good idea. 

 

I suppose we could teach them and welcome them.

[bcuzbcuz]

Controlled immigration yes.  Hordes of people coming in and many who do not understand the culture and way of life and may not integrate well of where they are going to is probably not a good idea.

I suggest you read your own US history of the floods of immigrants during the 1800's. Over a million Scandanavian's came by boat, as fast as the boats could carry them. Same applies to the Irish and Italians. Or actually, any cultural group from the European continent. Chinese were brought in as contract (slave) labourers.

Germany, as of last night, has declared that they expect 10,000 refugees in the next few days.

I see on the news that the tiny Greek island of Lesbos off the coast of Turkey, now has 25,000 refugees (Lesbos population in 85,000). I've been to Lesbos. The island is small and sparsely populated. There is no way the island can cope. Other countries need to stand up and take the burden.

The tiny island of Lampadusa, south of Sicily, has received ove 100,000 refugees. Some have stayed, some are still in refugee camps, most have moved to the Italian mainland. Italy wants help. Italy needs help.

The refugees are not just out for a Sunday stroll. They fear for their lives. They walk, ride or turn to smugglers but most have no food or water but rely on help from people along the way.

Think of it this way. One morning you awake to 200 people standing outside your house, in desparate need of food, water, warmth, shelter, or just a shower or a chance to have clean clothes.

Is there no room in the Inn?