B.s.a. Allows Gay Leaders, Church Responds

[SmileyMcGee]

You have no clue.

You're right, I have no clue why you would single out the BSA and not the other organizations that are more active supporters of the gay rights...I would suggest you burn and/or refrain from using all Microsoft and Apple products, never shop on Amazon or eBay, or use Facebook, Twitter, or other social media since they have all likely have supported gay rights in a big way...they probably have gay leaders too...and definitely don't Use google again

Edited July 28, 2015 by SmileyMcGee

[rockpond]

I read a book by James Mitchner called Mexico. In the book their was a peaceful village. One day an advancing army showed up a few miles away to conquer them. The peaceful village started preparing to defend their village. The following day the advancing army marched a couple hundred yards closer to the village. Again the peaceful village prepared to defend their village. For a few weeks this ritual continued, with the advancing army marching a few hundred yards closer every day and the peaceful village always preparing to defend themselves. Soon the peaceful village saw no need to prepare for defense.

Pretty soon the advancing army was already inside the village and had conquered them without having to raise a spear. The peaceful village became complacent because the army advanced so slowly.

The church doesn't want to become complacent with the advancing army.

Not sure who the advancing army is.

I recognize this as a win for religious freedom: each unit gets to choose leaders who reflect their particular religious beliefs and faith tradition.

[rockpond]

Our stake, for at least ten years, had/still has, received a quota for FOS donations. They in turn gave the wards a mandatory quota. If you didn't collect it , you had to go back again until you got the money. Anybody else have that situation ?

I respect someone's decision to object and not donate, but in our stake/ward, all that meant was that somebody else had to make up the difference.

If your stake did that, they were operating in violation of the Handbook.

[rockpond]

I have always loved the scout program. The church has loved and supported it dearly over the years also. It will be a sad day indeed when the church pulls out of BSA. Sad day for BSA that is. The church will not affiliate its funds and the Lords name with a policy that is immoral.

It will be a sad day if the church ends its affiliation with the BSA. But there is nothing immoral about the policy.

[filovirus]

Not sure who the advancing army is.

I recognize this as a win for religious freedom: each unit gets to choose leaders who reflect their particular religious beliefs and faith tradition.

The advancing army is immorality.

[ERayR]

If your stake did that, they were operating in violation of the Handbook.

 

Please show where it is against the handbook.  FOS assessments have followed that procedure wherever I have been.

[rockpond]

Or maybe you could just stand firm in your beliefs without feeling a need to see a group of people as enemies...

Not sure analogies like your's support the church's claim that it has charity for gay/lesbian individuals.

Amen

[rockpond]

The advancing army is immorality.

What's immoral about allowing these leaders to be honest and open about who they are?

[Nofear]

I'm just surprised you're still using your computer since a lot, if not most, of the companies that make your computing and Internet experience possible are much more active than the BSA in supporting LBGT rights...who knows, some of the code that runs through your computer was probably developed by gay hands...better take your computer with you to the shirt burn.

Don't forget that Alan Turing was gay and hence basically all modern computing.

[Calm]

I have been involved with the BSA as a leader for 15 years and if this BSA policy sticks I will crry my uniform down to the local Boy Scout office and burn it in the parking lot!

Responding in such an extreme manner is more likely to get your values disregarded and the loss of your contribution seen as a win rather than creating any feelings of regret from the organization.

If you want them to have second thoughts or recognize a loss, then a civil letter explaining your position is more likely to draw a more positive response and will have the added advantage of not making the Church look bad.

[filovirus]

What's immoral about allowing these leaders to be honest and open about who they are?

Sexual relations between same gendered people is immoral according to the law of chastity.

[Mormonmaniac]

It will be a sad day if the church ends its affiliation with the BSA. But there is nothing immoral about the policy.

Coming from you I would expect you to say such. You are not in touch with morality though.

[Mormonmaniac]

Responding in such an extreme manner is more likely to get your values disregarded and the loss of your contribution seen as a win rather than creating any feelings of regret from the organization.

If you want them to have second thoughts or recognize a loss, then a civil letter explaining your position is more likely to draw a more positive response and will have the added advantage of not making the Church look bad.

Its personal. It is extremely frustrating to me that the BSA would do such a thing. It utterly disgusts me! Perhaps I am just mad right now and I will calm down but I shal roar like a lion on this issue.

[rockpond]

Please show where it is against the handbook. FOS assessments have followed that procedure wherever I have been.

Handbook 2, 13.6.8 specifies that contributions to FOS should be voluntary. (It's at the very end of that section.)

[rockpond]

Sexual relations between same gendered people is immoral according to the law of chastity.

What does that have to do with allowing leaders to be open about their sexual orientation?

[rockpond]

Coming from you I would expect you to say such. You are not in touch with morality though.

I'm not in touch with YOU version of morality. The LDS doctrinal position is that there is nothing wrong with being homosexual.

[Broker]

Its personal. It is extremely frustrating to me that the BSA would do such a thing. It utterly disgusts me! Perhaps I am just mad right now and I will calm down but I shal roar like a lion on this issue.

I don't know...I somewhat inclined to send BSA a thank-you note for doing something that would finally end the relationship.

[sunstoned]

Amen

Agreed. This us versus them attitude is not productive or helpful. I think the church's statement was made in haste and will probably be revisited in the near future.

[Calm]

Its personal. It is extremely frustrating to me that the BSA would do such a thing. It utterly disgusts me! Perhaps I am just mad right now and I will calm down but I shal roar like a lion on this issue.

Then just do it as an individual and don't claim any association with the Church when you do it. It is highly unlikely that such behaviour would be seen as anything but inappropriate by Church leaders no matter the cause, imo.

[Stone holm]

The prior policy change was unsustainable, anyone who thought about it at all would have recognised that fact. The Church response was awkwardly stated as I understand it the Church will allow an openly gay adult (out the closet gay) to remain an active fully participating member so long as she or he does not participate in a homosexual act. The response pretty much puts that notion to rest. To me the Church should have just said that it will continue to call Scout leaders in accordance with its religious standards and in accordance with the best interest of its participating members. Unfortunately, we are now fellow travellers with the Southern Baptists. I will be surprised if the Catholics follow our lead or that of the Southern Baptists. But, I am less concerned about that self inflicted and unnecessary harm, than I am if the conservative hot heads cause us to rupture our relationship with the BSA.

[Brian 2.0]

My husband will be devastated if the church pulls out of Scouts.  We have three boys who want to get their Eagle and he loves volunteering.  He earned a higher rank in the military because he had his Eagle.  I highly doubt the military would honor an LDS equivalent of it. 

 

Your kids can still get their Eagle scout if the church pulls out of the program, just not in an LDS troop.  Your husband can still volunteer in it as well. 

 

I'd actually encourage both those options if the church withdrawals.  

[Mormonmaniac]

I don't know...I somewhat inclined to send BSA a thank-you note for doing something that would finally end the relationship.

I would completely welcome a church faith based program like the young women have. I absolutely do not want to be affiliated with the BSA anymore if this policy stands.

[sunstoned]

Its personal. It is extremely frustrating to me that the BSA would do such a thing. It utterly disgusts me! Perhaps I am just mad right now and I will calm down but I shal roar like a lion on this issue.

The BSA is not a branch of the LDS church. Apparently what disgusts you is an organization that has decided to treat all people equally and with respect. That sounds moral in my book.

[Danzo]

true, but that applies to gay or straight or heck even the WOW or remember this incident?

http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/01/nation/la-na-nn-boy-scout-rock-vandalism-20140201

Some commandments are of higher importance than others. For LDS, the law of chastity is one of the most sacred commandments.

[Stone holm]

I would completely welcome a church faith based program like the young women have. I absolutely do not want to be affiliated with the BSA anymore if this policy stands.

Compared to a YMs/ Scouting program, the YW program....well sucks. Raised 6 boys and a girl, the girl got cheated.