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By what spirit would you read satanic scripture in order tio udnersatnd it the way he wants you to? Compare that answer with D&C 76: 12; D&C 91: 4; and D&C 138: 11.

 

The spirit of actual facts and not imaginary feelings.

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As with the Light of Christ and the Holy Spirit, my experieince with the adversary and how well I know him comes first hand. He is not nice, has no good attributes, his side of the story is a lie and antithetical to the plan of happiness, and I certainly do not condemn him for he already is.

When will we know or how, what passages are allegory or fact in our temple ceremony and Bible/scriptures? First time I ever heard that some things in the Bible like the G.O.E, is symbolic, not factual, is on this board.

I don't know if Satan is real or symbolic now. Maybe just to scare us into thinking we've no control and need to stay in church and do what comes with that to keep him away. And of course pay our tithes.

How much is written in the Bible and elsewhere, a control method? Makes me wonder.

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Like Sanpitch, I actually don't believe in a literal Satan. I believe very little of the Old testament to be literal. I do believe evil exists and Satan is often just a scapegoat (and yes, I see the irony in the use of that term). It's easy to say anything good that happens is credited to God while everything bad that happens is attributed to the devil, while I believe that almost everything that happens just happens. I however do believe people can perpetrate good or evil all on their own and that there is a "dark side of the force."

 

That said, I too have wondered about some of the points that Sanpitch makes. We do only have "our" side of the story, It's sort of like anti-Mormons who have never read the BoM or actually asked a member any questions - they only have the anti point of view.

 

Specifically I have wondered before about Satan's alternate plan to save everyone. I get why it was rejected and all and all the agency stuff, and I appreciate that.  But wasn't Satan's motivation good? Was it really bad to have a plan where everybody is saved? Besides that it was not the Father's plan and it took away agency, what is wrong with the motivation to save everyone? (Keeping in mind here that I don't believe any of that actually happened, and speaking of this more as literature than history.)

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Nehor, I've heard the saying (thanks Mom) that satan (small "s", why the heck do I ever capitalize!?) works especially hard on those people in leadership (she was talking about in the church, I always thought anyway). So what I'm trying to say is, your comment is confusing to me. So good qualities, the devil leaves you alone?

No, I was countering the idea that good people get followers.

I was just saying that genuinely good people do not generally have tons of followers. Jesus was the embodiment of goodness and only a few really stuck with him. Most of the time he drove off his own followers by telling the truth or saying something difficult.

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Specifically I have wondered before about Satan's alternate plan to save everyone. I get why it was rejected and all and all the agency stuff, and I appreciate that.  But wasn't Satan's motivation good? Was it really bad to have a plan where everybody is saved? Besides that it was not the Father's plan and it took away agency, what is wrong with the motivation to save everyone? (Keeping in mind here that I don't believe any of that actually happened, and speaking of this more as literature than history.)

Satan was not exiled for presenting a plan. He was exiled for rebelling when it was rejected.

If you do not believe in him why do you care about his side of the story? Do you also feel bad for the bad rap Ahriman gets?

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Like Sanpitch, I actually don't believe in a literal Satan. I believe very little of the Old testament to be literal. I do believe evil exists and Satan is often just a scapegoat (and yes, I see the irony in the use of that term). It's easy to say anything good that happens is credited to God while everything bad that happens is attributed to the devil, while I believe that almost everything that happens just happens. I however do believe people can perpetrate good or evil all on their own and that there is a "dark side of the force."

 

That said, I too have wondered about some of the points that Sanpitch makes. We do only have "our" side of the story, It's sort of like anti-Mormons who have never read the BoM or actually asked a member any questions - they only have the anti point of view.

 

Specifically I have wondered before about Satan's alternate plan to save everyone. I get why it was rejected and all and all the agency stuff, and I appreciate that.  But wasn't Satan's motivation good? Was it really bad to have a plan where everybody is saved? Besides that it was not the Father's plan and it took away agency, what is wrong with the motivation to save everyone? (Keeping in mind here that I don't believe any of that actually happened, and speaking of this more as literature than history.)

Satan's plan was to never save anyone. That was and still is his greatest lie. Satan's plan is to enslave everyone into sin.

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Where do I read Satan's side other than from anti-Satan forces?

From anti-God sources, or anti-God-the-Father sources for those who realize that Satan is the same kind of being as God, our Father.

Basically from our brothers and sisters who really like Satan the way he is while thinking he is a better person than Jesus or God our Father.

Or said yet another way, from those who love the dark side.

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Oh, how easy it is to slowly slip and disbelieve God. If we can't rely on scripture and modern prophets, then who are we to believe? Do you believe the scriptures?

 

I have a lot of question about the scriptures, especially the OT; stoning to death those who gather wood on the Sabbath; the killing of a dozen or so teenagers by a she bear because they made fun of a bald headed prophet.  (Going by memory, not necessarily accurate.)  And etc.  It sounds more like the Muslim faith than a loving God.  The Flood in Noah's day, the drowning of babies, small children and adults is a little hard for me to believe, in fact I can't really believe in the world wide flood.  I'm not active in any faith.

Edited by Sanpitch
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When will we know or how, what passages are allegory or fact in our temple ceremony and Bible/scriptures? First time I ever heard that some things in the Bible like the G.O.E, is symbolic, not factual, is on this board.

I don't know if Satan is real or symbolic now. Maybe just to scare us into thinking we've no control and need to stay in church and do what comes with that to keep him away. And of course pay our tithes.

How much is written in the Bible and elsewhere, a control method? Makes me wonder.

Apply the scriptures to yourself--whether you think they are literal, figuartive, symbolic or actual--and you will have experieince with good and evil. This is another way of living John 7:17 (and John 14:15) and Alma 32.

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I have a lot of question about the scriptures, especially the OT; stoning to death those who gather wood on the Sabbath; the killing of a dozen or so teenagers by a she bear because they made fun of a bald headed prophet. (Going by memory, not necessarily accurate.) And etc. It sounds more like the Muslim faith than a loving God. The Flood in Noah's day, the drowning of babies, small children and adults is a little hard for me to believe, in fact I can't really believe in the world wide flood. I'm not active in any faith.

It took a while before I was really able to accept the idea that a loving God not only allows people to suffer but also sometimes commands his followers to kill other people

I can now see that good guys do sometimes need to kill bad guys, though, especially when bad guys are intent on continuing to do some really bad things.

The world before the flood in Noah's day was said to be so bad that everybody had evil thoughts and did evil things continually, with a few exceptions including Noah.

I can now understand why it would be a good thing to just wipe all of the evil people off of a planet if they are not truly repenting.

Edited by Ahab
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Tszuki?  Is that you?

Nope. Not me.

 

 

The Devil or Satan gets nothing but bad press and where does all this bad PR come from?  It originates with Jesus and the bible.  But has anyone ever heard his side of the story?  No they haven't.  Old Satan may be a really nice guy if we were to get to know him.  According to LDS, one third of the hosts of Heaven followed him, he must have some good attributes.

 
Remember there's always another side of the story and we should get both sides before we condemn anyone.  But where do we get the other side of the story, I don't know, the Christian side always slams any other opinion than their own.  Well, I'm being a little silly on the subject but seriously I have thought of this item over the years and wondered how fair is it to never know Satan's side except as explained by the Christian followers who always condemn.

 

 

This may be of interest, and since it analyzes Hebrew source documents, isn't limited to Thelema.

 

 

 

Personally, I believe that Satan is the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead.

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Satan was not exiled for presenting a plan. He was exiled for rebelling when it was rejected.

If you do not believe in him why do you care about his side of the story? Do you also feel bad for the bad rap Ahriman gets?

I think I explained that in my previous post. I don't care, I'm looking at it as literature in the same way I would analyze Tom Sawyer, The Great Gatsby or any number of other literary works.

 

I am not familiar with Ahriman so I can't comment.

Edited by Boanerges
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I think I explained that in my previous post. I don't care, I'm looking at it as literature in the same way I would analyze Tom Sawyer, The Great Gatsby or any number of other literary works.

 

I am not familiar with Ahriman so I can't comment.

If you are analyzing it as literature there is no other side. He would be fictitious and only have a side if someone gave him one.

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I have a lot of question about the scriptures, especially the OT; stoning to death those who gather wood on the Sabbath; the killing of a dozen or so teenagers by a she bear because they made fun of a bald headed prophet.  (Going by memory, not necessarily accurate.)  And etc.  It sounds more like the Muslim faith than a loving God.  The Flood in Noah's day, the drowning of babies, small children and adults is a little hard for me to believe, in fact I can't really believe in the world wide flood.  I'm not active in any faith.

Not sure how to help you then. It sounds more like you are on the offensive to discount God and give credit to Satan. Am I wrong?

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Nope. Not me.

 

 

This may be of interest, and since it analyzes Hebrew source documents, isn't limited to Thelema.

 

 

 

Personally, I believe that Satan is the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead.

He is definitely not the Holy Ghost. The scriptures outright testify to that.

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He is definitely not the Holy Ghost. The scriptures outright testify to that.

2 Peter 1:19 disagrees.

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We were all morning stars. Satan fell and became fallen from that status. He no longer is the morning star.

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

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Personally, I believe that Satan is the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead.

I've wondered if Satan might be one of the cherubim guarding the way to the tree of life, because I can see why he would want to prevent people from eating from it.

I sometimes still wonder about that.

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