Jump to content

Recommended Posts

I've wondered if Satan might be one of the cherubim guarding the way to the tree of life, because I can see why he would want to prevent people from eating from it.

I sometimes still wonder about that.

Are you watching the video I posted above?

Link to comment

The thing about "Satan", for me, is that I'm not really sure what he does when it comes to temptation.  As pointed out in the South Park clip I linked to, all of our propensity for desire and addiction seems to be a baked-in part of our brain chemistry.

 

In other words, if God changed His mind about Satan and his demons and banished them to outer darkness tomorrow, I don't think very much would change when it comes to our "temptations."  People would still have the same desire to look at beautiful women or men (and videos of beautiful women or men engaging in "intimacy").  People who enjoy the taste of alcohol would still want to drink alcohol (and some of them too much).  People who really, really liked cocaine or meth or other drugs would still really, really like it.  People who desired expensive cars, or handbags, or watches, or homes, would still desire expensive stuff.  People would still get bored at Church and wish they could be water skiing or sleeping. 

 

The idea of evil spirits floating around and getting inside our brains to make us think bad things or desire to do bad things just doesn't seem necessary anymore.  And in some ways it seems a little silly.  

Link to comment

No. Can you summarize it in a very short post?

No. That's why I posted the video. But it'll give you sources that confirm your wonderings.

Link to comment

The thing about "Satan", for me, is that I'm not really sure what he does when it comes to temptation. As pointed out in the South Park clip I linked to, all of our propensity for desire and addiction seems to be a baked-in part of our brain chemistry.

In other words, if God changed His mind about Satan and his demons and banished them to outer darkness tomorrow, I don't think very much would change when it comes to our "temptations." People would still have the same desire to look at beautiful women or men (and videos of beautiful women or men engaging in "intimacy"). People who enjoy the taste of alcohol would still want to drink alcohol (and some of them too much). People who really, really liked cocaine or meth or other drugs would still really, really like it. People who desired expensive cars, or handbags, or watches, or homes, would still desire expensive stuff. People would still get bored at Church and wish they could be water skiing or sleeping.

The idea of evil spirits floating around and getting inside our brains to make us think bad things or desire to do bad things just doesn't seem necessary anymore. And in some ways it seems a little silly.

He does what other bad people do. Not everything that is bad, necessarily, but he does do whatever bad stuff he does just as other bad people do. Or perhaps instead of saying bad people I should say people who do bad things. If Satan didn't do anything that is bad, or repented when he did, then he would probably be a pretty good guy.

You're right that people don't need to see or hear about other people doing bad things to be able to do bad things themselves, but the bad ideas do have to come from someone from somewhere to begin with, I think, unless everybody already knew all the bad things they could do without anyone to "help" them think of bad things.

Link to comment

2 Peter 1:19 disagrees.

What?? Where do you get that idea?

 

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Link to comment

What?? Where do you get that idea?

 

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Read it in Latin. The "day star" is Lucifer.

 

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/vul/pe2001.htm

Link to comment

I believe teachings in our church and even the temple give too much power to satan rather than Jesus' power in places. But we are able to cast him out of our midst using Jesus' name. Forgot about that, Jesus rules. :)

Edited by Tacenda
Link to comment

No. That's why I posted the video. But it'll give you sources that confirm your wonderings.

I figure somebody somewhere always agrees with me and my wonderings. What I wonder about that is, in question form, is it true? And I'm just not sure of that yet.
Link to comment

I believe teachings in our church and even the temple give too much power to satan rather than Jesus' power in places.

That would make sense if He's the Holy Ghost in disguise.

Link to comment

The thing about "Satan", for me, is that I'm not really sure what he does when it comes to temptation.  As pointed out in the South Park clip I linked to, all of our propensity for desire and addiction seems to be a baked-in part of our brain chemistry.

 

In other words, if God changed His mind about Satan and his demons and banished them to outer darkness tomorrow, I don't think very much would change when it comes to our "temptations."  People would still have the same desire to look at beautiful women or men (and videos of beautiful women or men engaging in "intimacy").  People who enjoy the taste of alcohol would still want to drink alcohol (and some of them too much).  People who really, really liked cocaine or meth or other drugs would still really, really like it.  People who desired expensive cars, or handbags, or watches, or homes, would still desire expensive stuff.  People would still get bored at Church and wish they could be water skiing or sleeping. 

 

The idea of evil spirits floating around and getting inside our brains to make us think bad things or desire to do bad things just doesn't seem necessary anymore.  And in some ways it seems a little silly.

And yet, we are told, is that when Satan is bound, we shall live in relative peace without sin for a thousand years.

Link to comment

 

 A line from Kenngo1969's posts

 
"Devils are boring creatures with minds of gritty yuckiness.  They are banal." —The Nehor
 
The Devil or Satan gets nothing but bad press and where does all this bad PR come from?  It originates with Jesus and the bible.  But has anyone ever heard his side of the story?  No they haven't.  Old Satan may be a really nice guy if we were to get to know him.  According to LDS, one third of the hosts of Heaven followed him, he must have some good attributes.
 
Remember there's always another side of the story and we should get both sides before we condemn anyone.  But where do we get the other side of the story, I don't know, the Christian side always slams any other opinion than their own.  Well, I'm being a little silly on the subject but seriously I have thought of this item over the years and wondered how fair is it to never know Satan's side except as explained by the Christian followers who always condemn.

 

Interesting..mainly because those who have seen me walk away from the church, sometimes still call me "Sister ....." I have always thought that Satan was my brother no matter what.  Shouldn't we at least be sad for him?

Link to comment

And yet, we are told, is that when Satan is bound, we shall live in relative peace without sin for a thousand years.

When Satan is bound everybody who didn't live God's telestial laws will also be bound, so maybe now you can see why those still on the Earth would live in relative peace. Everybody left here will be leaving God's terrestrial level laws at minimum.
Link to comment

 

 A line from Kenngo1969's posts

 
"Devils are boring creatures with minds of gritty yuckiness.  They are banal." —The Nehor
 
The Devil or Satan gets nothing but bad press and where does all this bad PR come from?  It originates with Jesus and the bible.  But has anyone ever heard his side of the story?  No they haven't.  Old Satan may be a really nice guy if we were to get to know him.  According to LDS, one third of the hosts of Heaven followed him, he must have some good attributes.
 
Remember there's always another side of the story and we should get both sides before we condemn anyone.  But where do we get the other side of the story, I don't know, the Christian side always slams any other opinion than their own.  Well, I'm being a little silly on the subject but seriously I have thought of this item over the years and wondered how fair is it to never know Satan's side except as explained by the Christian followers who always condemn.

 

I have wondered slightly about this. My view of Satan's position, taken from a reading of the material in the standard works, is the following:

 

Satan was high in the hierarchical organization in Heaven. He was extremely excited about the idea of getting a body and becoming like God. He worked hard and had the goal in mind to become like God. However, the plan had not been completely open to the spirit world. Satan worked hard and spread word among his friends and colleagues that they would all become like God. Then one day came and God revealed the entire plan and stated that many would not become like Him. He stated that many would not bear up under the burdens of responsibility that are inherent in each step that brought them closer to being like Him. Then it was revealed that they would not have the knowledge and experience that they had gained to help them when they arrived in the mortal realm. Satan was a struck with shock that the dream he had held was not as certain as he felt he had been led to believe. He had told so many people that they would become like God. Now, he had to tell these same people that the guaranteed future he had promised was a possibility only and that a large number would not achieve it. He felt deceived and hurt. Rather than bring this news to the people that he had spent time with and had guaranteed this to, he approached the council and stated that he wanted to make sure that they would become like God and return to their Heavenly abode. His plan was rejected. Satan was a bit proud and did not want to go back and tell his people that he had been incorrect. So he left the council angry. He approached those that were already basically following him. He stated that he, no they, had been deceived. That they would not become like God. They would be lost because only the strongest among them would have a chance. He told them that he had offered a plan that would allow all of them to succeed, but it had been shot down, not only shot down, but the threat had been laid that if they could not accept the plan chosen that they would be cast out. Those following Satan rose up and tried to fight against the decision and would not accept the decision made. As such they were cast out.

 

I believe that Satan started out on good footing, but was too proud to accept that he was wrong and that things would turn out well. He cannot accept that he was wrong, and so he must oppose Christ and God and Their plan. Perhaps the war is still raging and he feels that if he succeeds that his plan will be implemented and they will get what they want. Perhaps he is trying to make us fail. All the same, I don't think that Satan believes he is evil. I don't necessarily believe that he is trying to "harm" us. He thinks he is right. I do however believe that, regardless of his beliefs, he is evil.

 

I wonder at times whether or not Satan has an opportunity to repent. I also think that the harm he has caused does not allow for mercy due to the law of justice and the time frame of his offenses.

 

I do believe that there is probably some influence on people to do various things that are sins. I do not believe that it is as strong is it is made out to be though. I believe that the thousand years without Satan is a time where we will be shown the degree to which the sins were committed by us with little to no influence by Satan. It will be a time the same as now, where people sin on their own without any invisible influence, all the influence will be overt and none covert. Judgement will be mediated heavily by our actions during that time. The time frame of resurrection is not a reward, but a reprieve. If those of a Telestial mind had a full thousand years to live in this state their sins would be too much for any hope of forgiveness. We are given the time we can handle. We are at peace, but only in that Satan and his followers will not be influencing us.

 

I do think that Satan gets the short end of the stick from people. I think that his position/power/influence in this world are exaggerated by men, but I do believe that he does still have position/power/influence here. But that's just my opinion.

Edited by Jacob
Link to comment

When Satan is bound everybody who didn't live God's telestial laws will also be bound, so maybe now you can see why those still on the Earth would live in relative peace. Everybody left here will be leaving God's terrestrial level laws at minimum.

Oh good,,that should make my entire extended family very happy. 

 

So.. I take it that free agency will no longer be necessary.

Edited by Jeanne
Link to comment

Relevant to the discussion:

 

 

Based upon the characters created by Neil Gaiman, Sam Kieth and Mike Dringenberg for DC Entertainment’s Vertigo imprint, LUCIFER is the story of the original fallen angel. Bored and unhappy as the Lord of Hell, LUCIFER MORNINGSTAR (Tom Ellis, “Merlin”) has abandoned his throne and retired to L.A., where he owns Lux, an upscale nightclub.

Charming, charismatic and devilishly handsome, Lucifer is enjoying his retirement, indulging in a few of his favorite things – wine, women and song – when a beautiful pop star is brutally murdered outside of Lux. For the first time in roughly 10 billion years, he feels something awaken deep within him as a result of this murder. Compassion? Sympathy? The very thought disturbs him – as well as his best friend and confidante, MAZIKEEN aka MAZE (Lesley-Ann Brandt, “The Librarians”), a fierce demon in the form of a beautiful young woman.

The murder attracts the attention of LAPD homicide detective CHLOE DANCER (Lauren German, “Chicago Fire”), who initially is dismissive of Lucifer. But she becomes intrigued by his talent for drawing out people’s secrets and his desire to dispense justice, doling out punishment to those who deserve it. As they work together to solve the pop star’s murder, Lucifer is struck by Chloe’s inherent goodness. Accustomed to dealing with the absolute worst of humanity, Lucifer is intrigued by Chloe’s apparent purity and begins to wonder if there’s hope for his own soul yet.

At the same time, God’s emissary, the angel AMENADIEL (DB Woodside, “Suits,” “24”), has been sent to Los Angeles to convince Lucifer to return to the underworld…can the Devil incarnate be tempted toward the side of Good, or will his original calling pull him back toward Evil?

 

Link to comment

Tsuzuki, I'm curious, with a name like that do you have a Japanese connection.  Wifey and I lived near Fukuoka for 18 months long ago probably before you were born.

Only through anime. Though now I'm curious about how old you think I am. My profile says I'm 100.

Link to comment

I have no idea, I just know that most people are much younger than I am at 78.

Well, you've got me there. :lol:

 

I'm about a year shy of 40, though people tend to mistake me for a lot younger.

Edited by Tsuzuki
Link to comment

Finally sonething decent to fill the gap left by Smallville when it ended. The Flash just isn't doing it for me.

I hope he somehow does turn out to be a good guy, someday.

Game of Thrones is good.

Link to comment

Interesting..mainly because those who have seen me walk away from the church, sometimes still call me "Sister ....." I have always thought that Satan was my brother no matter what.  Shouldn't we at least be sad for him?

 

Sad for someone who is trying to ruin my eternal life and lead me to hell?  I don't understand your reasoning.

Link to comment

Is it because you look young or because you act juvenile? :rofl:

Not so juvenile as to blame a discarnate entity for my personal failings.

 

Sad for someone who is trying to ruin my eternal life and lead me to hell?  I don't understand your reasoning.

If Satan has this power, then you should be grateful for someone who is giving you the chance to prove yourself in the face of adversity. A baptism of fire, as it were.

Edited by Tsuzuki
Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...