Being Called By God

[stemelbow]

For quite some time my suspicion is that God is not behind each and every calling, directly. He seems content to sit back and let us manage callings merely offering agreements and confirmations from time to time.

It seems like many members are under the impression that say when a certain bishop is called that means God spoke out loud and said, "this particular person is the only one accepted to fill this spot" when it seems likely to me that bishops are chosen by stake leaders and others, some even consulted, and when prayers are given to decide, God either confirms or doesn't confirm. the added twist to this is, perhaps a different person could have been favored by these other men and he too could have been called and filled in just as nicely or moreso than the bishop that does get called.

Add to that the complexity of fallible personal revelation, and it seems we may get and probably do get many brethren called to be Bishop's whom God may not want so called.

So what say ye? Are all callings directed and crafted by God? or does God let us manage the affairs, letting us decide who are the leaders, but He reserves the right to reject any offerings (even though sometimes we probably don't listen)?

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I believe more often God says, "Sure, he is a good choice, go with that."

Several people are qualified, and worthy, to fill any one calling.

[Storm Rider]

The other side of the coin when an individual is called and found acceptable to God, then the Lord supports him in his calling.  In the case of a bishop, he then becomes a judge in Israel and the mantle he carries allows for spiritual blessings to lead, guide, and counsel the members of the congregation.  

[Buckeye]

I've issued quite a few callings in my life. In rare instances, I have felt strongly prompted that there is one person who needs the calling. In rarer instances, I've been impressed that the person I intended to call should not be. In the vast majority of instances, I simply got a confirmation that the decision was acceptable.

 

In most cases, I do not believe that there is only one person for a calling. Likewise, there is not only one mission where a missionary should serve. Or one person who someone could marry.

 

Another important point is to recognize spheres of responsibility. Sometimes an auxiliary president may feel impressed to call member Y, but the bishopric declines. That doesn't mean the inspiration was wrong, but that what may be right for that auxiliary conflicts with other needs of the ward (or the member being called).

 

Likewise, just because a church leader has inspiration to call a member, that doesn't mean the calling is best for the member or his/her family. The member has the right and responsibility to seek out guidance on what is best for their family. Sometimes that may lead to turning down a calling. That doesn't mean the church leader was wrong - just that the sphere in which they preside and direct (i.e.., what is best for the ward) is not the same the sphere in which the member presides and directs (i.e., what is best for the member's family).

[Ahab]

God, our Father, has given all of his power/authority to our Lord and our Lord has given his power/authority to other men in his Church along with revelations/instructions for how he wants things done. So the entire system followed in our Lord's Church is God himself moving in his majesty and power. Every calling issued by men with the power of God is the same as God issuing that calling himself. Behold the power of God.

[Mystery Meat]

Let's cut to the chase. You started this topic to explain/justify why you don't want to follow the prophet (or other leaders) under certain circumstances (ie, SSM).You, and those with similar sentiments, have used any number of justifications in the past (cultural bias, fallibility, not speaking as a prophet, etc.) to make those justifications. Add "not actually called of God" to the list. I don't care what reason you want to use. "whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." You still have to overcome the words of the Lord in this dispensation. Good luck with that. 

 

For the record, I don't think the Lord has to tell anyone in actual voice or powerful spiritual manifestations who they should call to a given assignment. One the call is issued and accepted, the person called has authority from God to act in that calling and is entitled to all rights and privileges associated with that calling. Some disqualify themselves from priesthood power. I would say that is the exception and not the rule, nor is it for you to judge when that happens. 

 

But if you are looking for reasons to justify your disagreement and/or disassociation with the Lord's anointed, go for it. Others have done the same throughout the history of the gospel.

 

Do not make this personal.

[ksfisher]

I've issued quite a few callings in my life. In rare instances, I have felt strongly prompted that there is one person who needs the calling. In rarer instances, I've been impressed that the person I intended to call should not be. In the vast majority of instances, I simply got a confirmation that the decision was acceptable.

 

In most cases, I do not believe that there is only one person for a calling. Likewise, there is not only one mission where a missionary should serve. Or one person who someone could marry.

 

Another important point is to recognize spheres of responsibility. Sometimes an auxiliary president may feel impressed to call member Y, but the bishopric declines. That doesn't mean the inspiration was wrong, but that what may be right for that auxiliary conflicts with other needs of the ward (or the member being called).

 

Likewise, just because a church leader has inspiration to call a member, that doesn't mean the calling is best for the member or his/her family. The member has the right and responsibility to seek out guidance on what is best for their family. Sometimes that may lead to turning down a calling. That doesn't mean the church leader was wrong - just that the sphere in which they preside and direct (i.e.., what is best for the ward) is not the same the sphere in which the member presides and directs (i.e., what is best for the member's family).

 

I like how you've put this, very well said.  I know in the past I've felt strongly that a person should be extended a calling, only to have the person say in the interview that they're moving.  I still felt it was not incorrect to extend the call.

[CV75]

For quite some time my suspicion is that God is not behind each and every calling, directly. He seems content to sit back and let us manage callings merely offering agreements and confirmations from time to time.

It seems like many members are under the impression that say when a certain bishop is called that means God spoke out loud and said, "this particular person is the only one accepted to fill this spot" when it seems likely to me that bishops are chosen by stake leaders and others, some even consulted, and when prayers are given to decide, God either confirms or doesn't confirm. the added twist to this is, perhaps a different person could have been favored by these other men and he too could have been called and filled in just as nicely or moreso than the bishop that does get called.

Add to that the complexity of fallible personal revelation, and it seems we may get and probably do get many brethren called to be Bishop's whom God may not want so called.

So what say ye? Are all callings directed and crafted by God? or does God let us manage the affairs, letting us decide who are the leaders, but He reserves the right to reject any offerings (even though sometimes we probably don't listen)?

Some would say that sitting back, letting us manage, make mistakes in issuing callings, and offering agreements and confirmations from time to time is a form of directly being behind each and every calling as a matter of degree.

 

I would like to meet a member who is under the impression that “God spoke out loud…”!

 

I think He is just as directly involved with those who are served, however well or poorly, by those who have been called.

[Traela]

I think sometimes a bishop is prompted to extend a calling because he needs to learn that the in-laws are moving in, Junior is about to drop out of school, Sis is hanging out with a bad crowd, the septic system is failing, and the cat seems to have become possessed.

[The Nehor]

I believe more often God says, "Sure, he is a good choice, go with that."

Several people are qualified, and worthy, to fill any one calling.

In my experience this is how it works. Occasionally out of the blue a name we never would have considered is pushed for a calling and we run with it. Other times we pick and either get a confirmation or prompted to look elsewhere. In many cases there are multiple people able to fill a calling. In others God has someone specific in mind and is more then able to get that across.

[stemelbow]

Some would say that sitting back, letting us manage, make mistakes in issuing callings, and offering agreements and confirmations from time to time is a form of directly being behind each and every calling as a matter of degree.

 

I would like to meet a member who is under the impression that “God spoke out loud…”!

 

I think He is just as directly involved with those who are served, however well or poorly, by those who have been called.

I agree.

[stemelbow]

Let's cut to the chase. You started this topic to explain/justify why you don't want to follow the prophet (or other leaders) under certain circumstances (ie, SSM).

SSM wasn't on my mind on this point.

You, and those with similar sentiments, have used any number of justifications in the past (cultural bias, fallibility, not speaking as a prophet, etc.) to make those justifications.

Honestly of the examples of the past, I don't think I've done much more then mention a couple of examples. I think there are more. I don't see my explanations as justifications so much as information to help explain my point of view.

Add "not actually called of God" to the list. I don't care what reason you want to use. "whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same." You still have to overcome the words of the Lord in this dispensation. Good luck with that.

I don't think so. It is true, at least to most LDS I know, that the prophet's words aren't always the LORD's words. So that quotation isn't referring to anything His servants say, but only to what may be that small segment of things the servants say that are inspired by God directly.

 

For the record, I don't think the Lord has to tell anyone in actual voice or powerful spiritual manifestations who they should call to a given assignment. One the call is issued and accepted, the person called has authority from God to act in that calling and is entitled to all rights and privileges associated with that calling. Some disqualify themselves from priesthood power. I would say that is the exception and not the rule, nor is it for you to judge when that happens.

So let's say, perhaps, someone who has secretly molested children is called to be a bishop. Does God sustain such an one? I think there are probably examples wherein someone was called and that someone was not God's choice. How often that is is anyone's guess. But I dont' think it wise to close our ears and eyes to such a possibility and likelihood.

 

But if you are looking for reasons to justify your disagreement and/or disassociation with the Lord's anointed, go for it. Others have done the same throughout the history of the gospel.

 

Do not make this personal.

i'm confused. I didn't make this personal, at least I don't see how. it seems like you want this to be about my intentions, which seems personal to me. My intentions are simple. I like to hear other people's ideas on certain things. I want to explain myself because I've had ideas on this topic and want to see how it stands up to scrutiny and how it compares to other people's ideas. So far, I have to say, it seems like there is plenty of agreement on this topic. I'm not sure why you think I'm so bad.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

SSM wasn't on my mind on this point.

Honestly of the examples of the past, I don't think I've done much more then mention a couple of examples. I think there are more. I don't see my explanations as justifications so much as information to help explain my point of view.

I don't think so. It is true, at least to most LDS I know, that the prophet's words aren't always the LORD's words. So that quotation isn't referring to anything His servants say, but only to what may be that small segment of things the servants say that are inspired by God directly.

 

So let's say, perhaps, someone who has secretly molested children is called to be a bishop. Does God sustain such an one? I think there are probably examples wherein someone was called and that someone was not God's choice. How often that is is anyone's guess. But I dont' think it wise to close our ears and eyes to such a possibility and likelihood.

 

i'm confused. I didn't make this personal, at least I don't see how. it seems like you want this to be about my intentions, which seems personal to me. My intentions are simple. I like to hear other people's ideas on certain things. I want to explain myself because I've had ideas on this topic and want to see how it stands up to scrutiny and how it compares to other people's ideas. So far, I have to say, it seems like there is plenty of agreement on this topic. I'm not sure why you think I'm so bad.

Usually red indicates a mod has stepped in and is addressing the post they remarked in- so I believe it was directed at MM, not yourself.

[KevinG]

We once had a Bishop call my wife to something she could not reasonably perform with a health condition she was dealing with.  She pondered, agonized, then returned to the Bishop with her concern.  He told her "Now sister, I would not have known your struggle, and not been able to help you, had I not extended that calling.  The call is removed, now what can I do to help you?"

 

I really liked that Bishop.

 

Oh and as to the opening question... The four main sources of revelation about callings are:

1. Inspiration (God told me)

2. Perspiration (I thought this out very carefully)

3. Relation (I know you well)

4. Location (You were the closest available person we could find)

Edited July 2, 2015 by KevinG