Why Is Worship Required?

[bluebell]

John 4:23 is a good example of the command but it's only one of many verses that essentially say the same thing-
 
"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."
 
I want to understand better why God seeks our worship.  

 

In any other aspect of life, someone who wanted others to worship them would be considered self-centered and prideful-the opposite of humble in every way.  Even if the person was worthy of worship, their desire for it or requirement of it would be interpreted as them having a major character flaw.

 

After all, the greatest among us is a Servant (and servants aren't worshipped), as Christ taught.

 

So again, why does God want us to worship Him?  What is worship and why is it required?

 

 

[Gray]

I don't think God seeks worship, but I think recognizing sanctity and sacredness of the Holy One is good for our own souls. 

[carbon dioxide]

Worship meaning to give reverence and honor to.

 

God does not need our worship but God wants to bless his children.  God however can only bless us if we are obedient to his commandments.  God does get offended if we do not give thanks and show gratitude for what he has given us.  Everything we have comes from God.  We own nothing.  Even the matter that makes up our bodies is loaned to us from God.  We either worship God or worship the devil.  One does not  have to formally give reverence or honor the devil to do this.  If one just follows Satan's plan of ignoring God, that is good enough.  They are doing what Satan wants them to do. 

[Garden Girl]

Good morning, Bluebell...

You know, I asked this very question to my TBM mom when I was inactive... I loved God and the Savior... I still had a testimony... but I didn't understand the worship or need to do so.  Eventually I reactivated and here I am... still not able to answer that question logically or convincingly... but the funny thing is... I do worship... and feel very humble and grateful for my life.  (Oh, and my mom couldn't give an answer either... just that that's what we're supposed to do as taught in numerous scriptural passages).

 

from the beach on a cool, high overcast spring morning... the type of morning where the sun will likely be out by about 11:00 a.m.

 

GG

[Mystery Meat]

I am not sure I have a satisfactory answer to this. In some perhaps it is like the answer to the why tithe question: God doesn't need us to worship Him, but we need to worship God. When God asks us to worship him and to reverence Him, I think he does so, hoping that we will realize our own divinity. Meaning, as we worship God, our Father, we will realize that we come from the only lineage that matters: His. He is God, so quite literally, we are His offspring. Which brings me to my next point. As His children, we are heirs; placed here on Earth to become like God and to be exalted to a more glorious life. As we worship God, then, we not only catch a glimpse of our heritage, but of our potential. And what can those glimpses do for us? Would we be more or less willing to trade incomprehensible power, knowledge and love for a mess of earthly and temporary pottage? Would we not be more willing to obey eternal law if we have a taste (no matter how small) of what awaits those we submit? I believe that the Lord knows that by worshiping Him, we gain a clearer understanding of who we are and what we are capable of through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 

 

My opinion, for what it is worth.

[bluebell]

I don't think God seeks worship, but I think recognizing sanctity and sacredness of the Holy One is good for our own souls. 

 

If that's true (that worshipping Him is good for us) then wouldn't He, to be a good Father, have to seek it?

 

Hmmm....  Maybe you just helped me answer my question.

Edited May 20, 2015 by bluebell

[bluebell]

Good morning, Bluebell...

You know, I asked this very question to my TBM mom when I was inactive... I loved God and the Savior... I still had a testimony... but I didn't understand the worship or need to do so.  Eventually I reactivated and here I am... still not able to answer that question logically or convincingly... but the funny thing is... I do worship... and feel very humble and grateful for my life.  (Oh, and my mom couldn't give an answer either... just that that's what we're supposed to do as taught in numerous scriptural passages).

 

from the beach on a cool, high overcast spring morning... the type of morning where the sun will likely be out by about 11:00 a.m.

 

GG

 

Glad it's not just me GG!

[smac97]

John 4:23 is a good example of the command but it's only one of many verses that essentially say the same thing-

 

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

 

I want to understand better why God seeks our worship.

My sense is that worshipping God involves coming to know Him and His attributes, improving our understanding of our relationship with Him, improving our relationship with Him, becoming more like Him, and so on.

We have been told that the "work" and "glory" of God is to "bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39). Worship, I think, is a necessary part of that process.

 

In any other aspect of life, someone who wanted others to worship them would be considered self-centered and prideful-the opposite of humble in every way.

And that would be an apt conclusion as regarding a mortal, fallible person. But God is perfect, so a correct assessment of Him will, for most people, lead to "worship" (defined as "reverent honor and homage paid to God" and "adoring reverence or regard"). Also, the perfection of God also eliminates any possibility of Him being "self-centered and prideful."

 

Even if the person was worthy of worship, their desire for it or requirement of it would be interpreted as them having a major character flaw.

But since God is without flaw, we must find an alternative explanation for why He wants us to worship Him.

 

After all, the greatest among us is a Servant (and servants aren't worshipped), as Christ taught.

I'm not sure what you mean by "servants aren't worshipped." Christ acted as a "servant," and he is worshipped.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited May 20, 2015 by smac97

[JLHPROF]

John 4:23 is a good example of the command but it's only one of many verses that essentially say the same thing-

 

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

 

I want to understand better why God seeks our worship.  

 

In any other aspect of life, someone who wanted others to worship them would be considered self-centered and prideful-the opposite of humble in every way.  Even if the person was worthy of worship, their desire for it or requirement of it would be interpreted as them having a major character flaw.

 

After all, the greatest among us is a Servant (and servants aren't worshipped), as Christ taught.

 

So again, why does God want us to worship Him?  What is worship and why is it required?

 

I think our definition of worship is flawed.  I don't think God needs praise and adoration.  I think when he seeks worship it is that he seeks those who seek to become like him.  (Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all).

God's entire work is to create more Gods, to have his children follow in his footsteps and become like him.

Any worship he seeks is leading in that direction.  Even when he asks for sacrifice it isn't to build his ego, but to show our willingness to do what is required.

[Gray]

If that's true (that worshipping Him is good for us) then wouldn't He, to be a good Father, have to seek it?

 

Hmmm....  Maybe you just helped me answer my question.

 

Yes, if you view God as a kind of father figure (anthropomorphic)

Edited May 20, 2015 by Gray

[danielwoods]

John 4:23 is a good example of the command but it's only one of many verses that essentially say the same thing-

 

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

 

I want to understand better why God seeks our worship.  

 

In any other aspect of life, someone who wanted others to worship them would be considered self-centered and prideful-the opposite of humble in every way.  Even if the person was worthy of worship, their desire for it or requirement of it would be interpreted as them having a major character flaw.

 

After all, the greatest among us is a Servant (and servants aren't worshipped), as Christ taught.

 

So again, why does God want us to worship Him?  What is worship and why is it required?

 

There are two sides to this. The Father seeketh such to worship him, and our need to worship him. But, they both come together, knowing that the Father seeketh such, because he understands our need to worship him. It is similar to a car needing fuel to run, or a lightbulb needing electricity to shine. We need to stay connected to him, through worship and prayer, as Paul stated, pray without ceasing. 

 

Another point is what is worship? 

 

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

 

Understand, that a "living" sacrifice is actually an oxymoron. All sacrifices are dead in the Jewish context. So, offering our bodies, is juxtaposed to the Gnostic view that only "spiritual" things really matter. Rather, as stated here, being transformed by the renewing of our minds, and not viewing the world from the point of view of the world, but from God's point of view. Which leads us to serve and give of our lives to others as God does everyday. 

[omni]

Great question, one I have often wondered myself. We are taught that one of the greatest attributes we can have is humility, yet this doesn't seem to apply to God. I know we can't fully comprehend the nature of God, but I can't imagine wanting my children to worship me and constantly sing my praises and then give them eternal punishment if they fail to do so.

[bluebell]

Yes, if you view God as a kind of father figure (anthropomorphic)

 

 

I don't view Him as a kind of father figure, I view him as my literal father.  That is what the scriptures teach and what my own experiences with Him have supported so i have no reason to doubt it.

[Gray]

I don't view Him as a kind of father figure, I view him as my literal father.  That is what the scriptures teach and what my own experiences with Him have supported so i have no reason to doubt it.

 

Right, then if that is the model you're using then your conclusion is correct. 

[bluebell]

But since God is without flaw, we must find an alternative explanation for why He wants us to worship Him.

 

I agree.  I want to know what the alternative explanation is.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "servants aren't worshipped." Christ acted as a "servant," and he is worshipped.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

 

He did not request that anyone worship Him though, so His declaration of the servant being the greatest seems (given our definition of what a servant is) to be contradictory to the 'you must worship me' commandment that we get from the Father.

 

I'm not suggesting that God is wrong for requiring worship, i'm just trying to understand that commandment better.

[bluebell]

Right, then if that is the model you're using then your conclusion is correct. 

 

Is my conclusion incorrect if used with other scripturally supported models?

[bluebell]

Great question, one I have often wondered myself. We are taught that one of the greatest attributes we can have is humility, yet this doesn't seem to apply to God. I know we can't fully comprehend the nature of God, but I can't imagine wanting my children to worship me and constantly sing my praises and then give them eternal punishment if they fail to do so.

 

Yep.  

 

I don't think that God has ever said that He will damn any of His children who don't sing His praises though.

[bluebell]

I think our definition of worship is flawed.  I don't think God needs praise and adoration.  I think when he seeks worship it is that he seeks those who seek to become like him.  (Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all).

God's entire work is to create more Gods, to have his children follow in his footsteps and become like him.

Any worship he seeks is leading in that direction.  Even when he asks for sacrifice it isn't to build his ego, but to show our willingness to do what is required.

 

That's a really interesting way to look at it.

[smac97]

I agree.  I want to know what the alternative explanation is.

 

He did not request that anyone worship Him though,

With respect, I think God has commanded us to worship Him. Matthew 4:10 comes to mind ("Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God"). And John 4:23 ("Worship the Father in spirit and in truth"). And 1 Nephi 17:55 ("Worship the Lord thy God, and honor thy father"). And 2 Nephi 25:29 ("Worship him with all your might, mind, and strength"). And Alma 34:38 ("Worship God, in whatsoever place ye may be"). And 3 Nephi 11:17 ("And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him"). And D&C 18:40 ("And you shall fall down and worship the Father in my name"). And D&C 76:21 ("And saw the holy angels, and them who are sanctified before his throne, worshiping God, and the Lamb, who worship him forever and ever"). And D&C 93:19 ("I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness"). And Moses 1:15 ("Worship God, for him only shalt thou serve"). A of F 1:11 ("We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may"). And many, many more.

 

so His declaration of the servant being the greatest seems (given our definition of what a servant is) to be contradictory to the 'you must worship me' commandment that we get from the Father.

Jesus Christ commanded us to worship the father. See John 4:23 ("But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.") and D&C 18:40 ("And you shall fall down and worship the Father in my name."). Nothing said by God can be construes as "contradictory" to what Jesus said, or vice versa.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited May 20, 2015 by smac97

[Gray]

Is my conclusion incorrect if used with other scripturally supported models?

 

Well, I think you could find support for just about any model for God within the scripture. But your conclusion would be incorrect, for example, if your view is that God is not a conscious, ego-based entity, but rather the entirety of existence and being is God. Then it would be incorrect to say that God desires anything. (Deuteronomy 4:35 - "You have already experienced the knowing that the Eternal One is the Inner Presence, nothing else exists but God.")

 

But given your premises, your conclusion is correct. 

Edited May 20, 2015 by Gray

[Vanguard]

John 4:23 is a good example of the command but it's only one of many verses that essentially say the same thing-

 

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

 

I want to understand better why God seeks our worship.  

 

In any other aspect of life, someone who wanted others to worship them would be considered self-centered and prideful-the opposite of humble in every way.  Even if the person was worthy of worship, their desire for it or requirement of it would be interpreted as them having a major character flaw.

 

After all, the greatest among us is a Servant (and servants aren't worshipped), as Christ taught.

 

So again, why does God want us to worship Him?  What is worship and why is it required?

 

Well, I don't believe God needs us to worship him though I can understand why he might want us to only because the proper exercise of worship reflects more exactly the individual's state of mind - a state that approximates us to our God and better allows us to maximize our potential here in this temporality.

 

The bigger issue as I see it is whether we worship reluctantly or even out of obligation. Worship comes naturally as we get to know our Father in Heaven. It doesn't come because we were told we needed to in our Sunday School class. The finest principles naturally result from intimacy with our God and not from a checklist. 

[bluebell]

Well, I think you could find support for just about any model for God within the scripture. But your conclusion would be incorrect, for example, if your view is that God is not a conscious, ego-based entity, but rather the entirety of existence and being is God. Then it would be incorrect to say that God desires anything. (Deuteronomy 4:35 - "You have already experienced the knowing that the Eternal One is the Inner Presence, nothing else exists but God.")

 

But given your premises, your conclusion is correct. 

 

So given that alternate view of God, why would He (if such a god could be assigned a gender) require worship?

[bluebell]

With respect, I think God has commanded us to worship Him.

 

What I meant was that I'm not aware of any place in scripture where Jesus commands anyone to worship Him (Jesus).

[Gray]

So given that alternate view of God, why would He (if such a god could be assigned a gender) require worship?

 

Under that view of God, God does not require anything of us at all. There are conclusions about how to live one's life that arise from the spiritual quest, but God in this model issues no commandments, and is not a conscious being who makes judgement or does anything else that humans do. God is not "out there" somewhere separate from us. God is in fact the only thing that exists.

 

But of course, that in no way resembles traditional Mormon views on God, which are themselves pretty unique in the Christian world. Not only is God a being with human-like properties, God is in fact an corporeal, immortal and vastly powerful homo sapiens who is not the First Cause of either existence or of morality, only the caretaker and organizer of this particular universe, or at least part of this universe. Orthodox Mormonism posits a God who is literally one of us. Which I think is why traditional Christians have such a hard time coming to grips with with Mormonism, as the view of God is so radically different.

 

But I digress. 

[cinepro]

John 4:23 is a good example of the command but it's only one of many verses that essentially say the same thing-

 

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him."

 

I want to understand better why God seeks our worship.  

 

In any other aspect of life, someone who wanted others to worship them would be considered self-centered and prideful-the opposite of humble in every way.  Even if the person was worthy of worship, their desire for it or requirement of it would be interpreted as them having a major character flaw.

 

After all, the greatest among us is a Servant (and servants aren't worshipped), as Christ taught.

 

So again, why does God want us to worship Him?  What is worship and why is it required?

 

As others have pointed out, the scripture you cited may make more sense if you substitute "recognize" or "respect" for "worship". 

 

But yeah, there are a lot of LDS who believe they will have "their own planet" one day, and if someone said to me that they were most looking forward to having billions of their own spirit children who would worship them and pray to them, I might think a little less of them.  So maybe the trick is to not like the worship, but demand it anyway.