Members Excommunicated Who Enter Same-Sex Marriages?

[bluebell]

Yes, I understand that.  

 

But can you imagine the church issuing a statement that members could openly support adultery or any other sin that a member can be excommunicated for?

 

It just seems contradictory, but I know it's complicated too.

 

I actually could see that.  It certainly wouldn't be as politically correct as supporting SSM is but I don't think the church would try to excommunicate someone for opening admitting that they felt that it was better for a couple to live together before they got married, for example.  If an active person said that in SS, i don't think they would face church discipline.  

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

if you don't have sex until you're married then you don't have to repent for that, gay or straight. Gays can have faith, repent, follow the Holy Ghost, be baptized, elsewise God is a respector of persons, if the Gospel only for straight people and gay people get a free pass? if you are celibate, repent for what? in that issue

Perhaps this issue needs to be specifically called out. It is my understanding that gay marriage ie entering into a homosexual relationship is a sin in and of it's self. Engaging in sexual acts is another sin.

[rockpond]

that's the thing though, if you are gay and celibate and enter into a gay marriage, why is that wrong? if it isn't a sin to have sex with your straight spouse then why is it a sin to do it with your SS spouse? 

 

I don't disagree with the point you are making but from the perspective of the Church -- SS spouses are not recognized because gay marriage is not recognized as a legitimate marriage.  Therefore you are still breaking the law of chastity.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

well so far God hasn't said anything about gay marriages and being excommunicated for doing such, God must have some purpose he wants his gay children to do , can they do it in the church? Gay marriage has been legal in Canada here for years, when will God say something about it? like you can or can't get married and be a member in good standing? Are we waiting for the USSC to say something before God says something?

But he has said things but homosexual relations which would include SSM. Those relations are forbidden.

[Duncan]

The church is for all who desire to be followers of Christ and covenant to obey his commandments.  The church has stated that having same sex attraction is not a sin, but acting on those desires is.  Acting on those desire is, as Rockpond pointed out, a violation of the law of chastity.  If our desires are to break the law of chastity then making a covenant with Christ to be obedient to him may not be the best idea.  God will not be mocked.

 

I agree with that but God isn't always so clear on issues, especially with this sexuality stuff. Christ wants all to come unto him, except gay people? why are gay people gay then? There has to be some purpose for it. Why would God give them that and then say well, it's a sin and you shouldn't join the true Church because if you do then most likely, if you are a normal human being, you'll want companionship but you'd get disciplined for doing so and then you'll leave and probably end up quitting Church altogether and "the same spirit" that leaves the earth is the same spirit that possesseseseses? the next word to come. Basically, it's not your fault your gay, you tried and you failed with glory? Where's God in all that? Sounds dumb!

[Duncan]

But he has said things but homosexual relations which would include SSM. Those relations are forbidden.

 

well, that connection we are making not the Church though. Again, it isn't in the CHI saying you'll be excommunicated for doing this, you may be but not necessarily. I don't get why a gay couple can't be in the Church, what does God want from them that they can still inherit eternal life?

[ksfisher]

I agree with that but God isn't always so clear on issues, especially with this sexuality stuff.

 

I would suggest you open up a copy of True to the Faith and read the entry under chastity.  The Lord's teaching on "sexuality stuff" seems very clear.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

 Basically, it's not your fault your gay, you tried and you failed with glory? Where's God in all that? Sounds dumb!

It really sounds as though you are special pedaling here.

 

I have a disposition to steal. Basically, it's not your fault you like to steal, you tried and you failed with glory? Where's God in all that? Sounds dumb!

 

 

Sin is sin. We all have our temptations. We are all judged accordingly. If you can rationalize those that have ssa and act on it then you can rational any sin.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

well, that connection we are making not the Church though. Again, it isn't in the CHI saying you'll be excommunicated for doing this, you may be but not necessarily. I don't get why a gay couple can't be in the Church, what does God want from them that they can still inherit eternal life?

Because that relationship is a sin. It is a mockery of that which he has outlined that marriage is between a man and a women. Plain and simple. Take the emotion out of it and you will see it.

 

God wants the same thing for them that he wants for all of his children. That is to obey his commands and return to him. This is simplified of course. I should not have to spell it all out.

[ksfisher]

what does God want from them that they can still inherit eternal life?

 

God wants the same thing from "them" as he does from all of us.  That is that we forsake all our sins and be at-one with Him.

[thesometimesaint]

well, that connection we are making not the Church though. Again, it isn't in the CHI saying you'll be excommunicated for doing this, you may be but not necessarily. I don't get why a gay couple can't be in the Church, what does God want from them that they can still inherit eternal life?

 

Because homosexual sex is considered by the God to be sinful. God can't look upon sin with the least degree of tolerance. He wants all to choose to obey his instructions to his Church. To repent as necessary and enjoy Eternal Life. The choice is yours as well as theirs.

[ALarson]

God wants the same thing for them that he wants for all of his children. That is to obey his commands and return to him. This is simplified of course. I should not have to spell it all out.

I think we all get that.

 

What I feel the issue here is that at least these members are attempting to marry and stay within a committed relationship.  The church has issued a statement that it's ok for members to support gay marriage, so why would a Bishop contact an inactive, gay member and hold a court on him for getting married?  Why not just leave him alone?  

 

Again, maybe there's more to this story that we don't know yet.

[Gray]

Because homosexual sex is considered by the God to be sinful. God can't look upon sin with the least degree of tolerance. He wants all to choose to obey his instructions to his Church. To repent as necessary and enjoy Eternal Life. The choice is yours as well as theirs.

 

There is scant support for this viewpoint. 

[Boanerges]

The church is for all people who have covenanted to become followers of Christ, and the church invites all to make that covenant through the waters of baptism.  Part of being baptized is leaving behind our old life and being born again as a follower of Christ.  We covenant to obey his commandments and serve him.  If we hold onto parts of our old, sinful life, we effectively invalidate that covenant.

 

Again, I'm not sure how any member of the church could be unsure about the church's teachings on marriage or homosexual relations.

 

The two now inactive gays I know who live with other men (in both cases the others are not members) were BIC and baptized at age 8. While they may well have known at age 8 that they were gay (or maybe not), there was no "old life" to give up - they were living church lives. Even if there was something to give up and even if they did realize they were gay at age 8, they certainly did not know the long term implications of being gay at that age.

 

I am sure they now understand - that's why they're inactive.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Boanerges

[Boanerges]

Didn't the church recently state that members could support gay marriage?  Maybe I'm mistaken?

 

They have. I support gay marriage, I have not (and never will) entered into one. I think that's the distinction in this thread.

[Duncan]

It really sounds as though you are special pedaling here.

 

I have a disposition to steal. Basically, it's not your fault you like to steal, you tried and you failed with glory? Where's God in all that? Sounds dumb!

 

 

Sin is sin. We all have our temptations. We are all judged accordingly. If you can rationalize those that have ssa and act on it then you can rational any sin.

 

 

I don't know soft pedaling is, even though I ride bikes and I love soft ice cream, so I don't get that connection  . You can't have a policy without a principle. But what is the principle here? the law of chastity, no sexual relations outside of marriage but for gay people it doesn't seem to apply. Why can't they like the rest of us have sex in marriage? Why is is sinful for one couple and not another?

Edited May 8, 2015 by Duncan

[HappyJackWagon]

Duncan, I love the compassion with which you are treating this topic. We need to find a way to show gays they are accepted in the church but that will only happen when they REALLY are accepted. They sure aren't now. This board illustrates that very well.

[ksfisher]

The two now inactive gays I know who live with other men (in both cases the others are not members) were BIC and baptized at age 8. While they may well have known at age 8 that they were gay (or maybe not), there was no "old life" to give up - they were living church lives. Even if there was something to give up and even if they did realize they were gay at age 8, they certainly did not know the long term implications of being gay at that age.

 

I am sure they now understand - that's why they're inactive.

 

The covenant  made at baptism is renewed when we take the sacrament.  We then have the same opportunity to forsake our sins and re-enter that covenant relationship with the Savior. 

[ksfisher]

I don't know soft pedaling is, even though I ride bikes and I love soft ice cream, so I don't get that connection  . You can't have a policy without a principle. But what is the principle here? the law of chastity, no sexual relations outside of marriage but for gay people it doesn't seem to apply. Why can't they like the rest of us have sex in marriage? Why is is sinful for one couple and not another?

 

Because the only marriage recognized by God is that between a man and a woman. 

[thesometimesaint]

I don't know soft pedaling is, even though I ride bikes and I love soft ice cream, so I don't get that connection  . You can't have a policy without a principle. But what is the principle here? the law of chastity, no sexual relations outside of marriage but for gay people it doesn't seem to apply. Why can't they like the rest of us have sex in marriage? Why is is sinful for one couple and not another?

 

Because the principle is that homosexual sex is sinful regardless if it is outside or within marriage.

[ALarson]

They have. I support gay marriage, I have not (and never will) entered into one. I think that's the distinction in this thread.

Again, I understand that and I'm in the same position you're in.  

 

But why issue a statement that it's ok to support gay marriage as a member, and then we see Bishops seeking out gay, inactive members who have married so they can hold a court for them?

 

It's like the leaders are saying that it's ok to support it, but don't do it.

Edited May 8, 2015 by ALarson

[Duncan]

Because the only marriage recognized by God is that between a man and a woman. 

 

they why make homosexuality or allow it and then possibly condemn people for it? Life isn't so black and white!!

[ksfisher]

Duncan, I love the compassion with which you are treating this topic. We need to find a way to show gays they are accepted in the church but that will only happen when they REALLY are accepted. They sure aren't now. This board illustrates that very well.

 

God has commanded all of us to show compassion to one another.  I don't think compassion has been the issue here.  But we have never been commanded to accept sin as something acceptable.

[HappyJackWagon]

 

The covenant  made at baptism is renewed when we take the sacrament.  We then have the same opportunity to forsake our sins and re-enter that covenant relationship with the Savior.

 

I just keep coming back to the question-

What is God's plan for gays?

- Will they still be gay in the next life ( no reason to expect otherwise)

- Do they have any opportunity for eternal happiness in a loving, committed relationship ( it doesn't appear so)

- Are they inherently sinful for eternity and unable to meet the measure of their creation and meant to live alone forever?

- With that kind of teaching coupled with the disrespect they get from active, faithful church members, why would any gay person want to be a member?

- Why do we not have more revelation on this topic?

[ksfisher]

they why make homosexuality or allow it and then possibly condemn people for it? Life isn't so black and white!!

 

Why make it possible for people to sin at all?  Why could God have just not created us in a way that makes it impossible for us to disobey him in any fashion?