Members Excommunicated Who Enter Same-Sex Marriages?

[ALarson]

Who knows what Chris  might do

 

There is however record of how Christ treated those who sinned against the law of Moses (which was the religious law in His time) According to Leviticus, homosexual sex is a sin according to the Law of Moses.

 

Christ called sinners to repentance and told them to 'Sin no more'

 

Funny  Thanks for catching that (I've edited it).

 

And on your other thoughts, I agree.  But still no record of what Christ taught regarding gay relationships or marriages.   We can go around and around about this and what each of our opinions are or the assumptions of what you think Jesus meant when he stated something, but the simple truth is that we don't know.  

Edited May 9, 2015 by ALarson

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Funny  Thanks for catching that (I've edited it).

 

And on your other thoughts, I agree.  But still no record of what Christ taught regarding gay relationships or marriages.   We can go around and around about this and what each of our opinions are or the assumptions of what you think Jesus meant when he stated something, but the simple truth is that we don't know.  

Expound to me what He taught concerning bestiality. If you can't, then we simply don't know what He would do.

[ALarson]

 

Where? From whatever Celestial Kingdom he hailed from. Accepting the Adam-God teaching helps clear up the eternal progression teachings somewhat.

You think Adam "hailed" other women to be his wives from the Celestial Kingdom?

 

I wasn't aware that you believed (or accepted) the Adam-God teachings.  That's another interesting topic!

[ALarson]

Expound to me what He taught concerning bestiality. If you can't, then we simply don't know what He would do.

True.  We can make assumptions regarding whether or not Christ would excommunicate someone involved in this, but we don't know.

Edited May 9, 2015 by ALarson

[BookofMormonLuvr]

You think Adam "hailed" other women to be his wives from the Celestial Kingdom?

 

I wasn't aware that you believed (or accepted) the Adam-God teachings.  That's another interesting topic!

Adam-God is one FM teaching I have not been able to entirely eradicate from my theology. So I am open to it.

[JLHPROF]

Fornication: "sexual intercourse between people not married to each other."

 

We're discussing those who have entered into a legal marriage.  I know you say that they are not recognized marriages by God, but that again, is only an opinion.  

 

Nonsense.

The very definition of marriage is what God established when he put man and woman together.

Two men can NEVER be married.  Two women can NEVER be married.  Because marriage is the joining of male and female.  Neither is the man without the woman nor the woman without the man in the Lord.

 

We might as well pass a law stating that all dogs are now cats.  Utterly meaningless.

[JLHPROF]

You think Adam "hailed" other women to be his wives from the Celestial Kingdom?

 

I wasn't aware that you believed (or accepted) the Adam-God teachings.  That's another interesting topic!

 

I think Adam/Heavenly Father was a polygamist on his earth and therefore has numerous wives (and we have numerous Heavenly Mothers).

[BookofMormonLuvr]

True.

 

So in your effort to justify gay marriage, you would say that we really don't know what God thinks about having sex with animals?

[JLHPROF]

But still no record of what Christ taught regarding gay relationships or marriages.  

 

Because there's no such thing as a gay marriage.

[ALarson]

Nonsense.

The very definition of marriage is what God established when he put man and woman together.

Two men can NEVER be married.  Two women can NEVER be married.  Because marriage is the joining of male and female.  Neither is the man without the woman nor the woman without the man in the Lord.

 

We might as well pass a law stating that all dogs are now cats.  Utterly meaningless.

Again, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.  I don't agree and more members of the church are agreeing with me as time goes on.  It'll be interesting to watch what happens over the next 20 years or so within the church.  

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Again, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.  I don't agree and more members of the church are agreeing with me as time goes on.  It'll be interesting to watch what happens over the next 20 years or so within the church.  

Which is why am tending to be more and more independent of organizations and men, and am making my walk more about me and God, and our relationship. 

[ALarson]

Which is why am tending to be more and more independent of organizations and men, and am making my walk more about me and God, and our relationship. 

I can respect that.  I think your perspective and thoughts are some of the most interesting to read here on this forum.  I know we disagree on this topic and we're not going to change the other's opinion or beliefs regarding it.  And, that's ok.

[JLHPROF]

Again, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.  I don't agree and more members of the church are agreeing with me as time goes on.  It'll be interesting to watch what happens over the next 20 years or so within the church.  

 

...*ripening in wickedness*....cough

[HappyJackWagon]

 

I think Adam/Heavenly Father was a polygamist on his earth and therefore has numerous wives (and we have numerous Heavenly Mothers).

 

So was Adam the first man on all of his planets? How do you square that with Jesus being the only begotten of the Father in the flesh?

[BookofMormonLuvr]

 

 

So was Adam the first man on all of his planets? How do you square that with Jesus being the only begotten of the Father in the flesh?

I said "somewhat" helps explain eternal progression, but I will take a stab at this...

In his role as Adam (first man) he is mortal once again. So he was a mortal man again producing mortal offspring.

In His role a Heavenly Father He is immortal. That would make Jesus His only fleshly Son born out of His immortal state as Heavenly Father.

[HappyJackWagon]

 

Where? From whatever Celestial Kingdom he hailed from. Accepting the Adam-God teaching helps clear up the eternal progression teachings somewhat.

 

CFR- I'd love to see where you're getting this from. So the Adam and Eve story really should have been the Adam and Eve and beatrice and Mary and Jenny and... story. Did they leave the other wives out of the story for brevity, similar to leaving out JS's other wives?

[JLHPROF]

 

 

CFR- I'd love to see where you're getting this from. So the Adam and Eve story really should have been the Adam and Eve and beatrice and Mary and Jenny and... story. Did they leave the other wives out of the story for brevity, similar to leaving out JS's other wives?

 

The same ancient oral traditions that teach of Adam and Eve tell of Adam's first wife Lilith.  Although that comes from more pagan traditions too.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

 

 

CFR- I'd love to see where you're getting this from. So the Adam and Eve story really should have been the Adam and Eve and beatrice and Mary and Jenny and... story. Did they leave the other wives out of the story for brevity, similar to leaving out JS's other wives?

Well, if you believe the exact story of creation as written (which I doubt you do anyways) it could be perplexing. But if you believe it is a condensed, symbolic version of a longer tale, the possibilities open up..

BY mentions Eve as being "one" of Michael's "wives".

I would encourage you to read Ogden Kraut's works on Adam-God, if you are truly interested in the subject.

[HappyJackWagon]

 

Well, if you believe the exact story of creation as written (which I doubt you do anyways) it could be perplexing. But if you believe it is a condensed, symbolic version of a longer tale, the possibilities open up..

BY mentions Eve as being "one" of Michael's "wives".

I would encourage you to read Ogden Kraut's works on Adam-God, if you are truly interested in the subject.

This is fascinating. I think we need to start a new thread.

You're right that I view the story of Adam and Eve as allegorical. Of course Elder Hollands insistence that it is literal, and that there was a literal fall from the Garden does create some problems for those inclined to literal belief.

So did God tell Jehovah to go down with Michael (God himself) to create the world and everything on it?

Did Adam, the mortal God physically die but become ressurrected? If that's true, why the need for Christ's resurrection? So many questions.

[JLHPROF]

 

This is fascinating. I think we need to start a new thread.

You're right that I view the story of Adam and Eve as allegorical. Of course Elder Hollands insistence that it is literal, and that there was a literal fall from the Garden does create some problems for those inclined to literal belief.

So did God tell Jehovah to go down with Michael (God himself) to create the world and everything on it?

Did Adam, the mortal God physically die but become ressurrected? If that's true, why the need for Christ's resurrection? So many questions.

 

Jehovah as Christ is incompatible with Adam-God in my opinion.

BY said that Eloheim, Jehovah and Michael were all resurrected Grandfather, Father, Son.  And as in the temple, Eloheim sends Jehovah and Michael/Adam to create.

My personal belief is that Christ claimed the title of Jehovah (as in D&C 110) AFTER performing his atoning sacrifice and resurrection.   He earned it.  The Jehovah of the OT was a person who had done the same work previously.

[ALarson]

Jehovah as Christ is incompatible with Adam-God in my opinion.

BY said that Eloheim, Jehovah and Michael were all resurrected Grandfather, Father, Son.  And as in the temple, Eloheim sends Jehovah and Michael/Adam to create.

My personal belief is that Christ claimed the title of Jehovah (as in D&C 110) AFTER performing his atoning sacrifice and resurrection.   He earned it.  The Jehovah of the OT was a person who had done the same work previously.

I see that HappyJackWagon has started another thread to discuss this as to not derail this topic.

[JLHPROF]

I see that HappyJackWagon has started another thread to discuss this as to not derail this topic.

 

Absolutely.

[california boy]

When did I say that? Child abuse and murder I would say are worse. Gay marriage is not the worst thing in the world BUT just because there are worse things does not make it good.

Nice to know I am not as evil as a murderer or child abuser. Thanks

[carbon dioxide]

Nice to know I am not as evil as a murderer or child abuser. Thanks

I did not say YOU were evil.  I do believe that actions can be evil.

[Boanerges]

The parable doesn’t say anything about how the prodigal son reacted to his brother’s attitude.  But given his deep contrition for his own transgressions, I would like to think that he made every effort to overlook those of his brother.

Indeed we do know how the older brother reacted (were it a true story, of course):

 

25 Now his elder son was in the field: and as he came and drew nigh to the house, he heard musick and dancing.

26 And he called one of the servants, and asked what these things meant

27 And he said unto him, Thy brother is come; and thy father hath killed the fatted calf, because he hath received him safe and sound.

28 And he was angry, and would not go in: therefore came his father out, and entreated him.

29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends:

30 But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf.

 

Keep in mind that the prodigal son had already been forgiven of his father (after doing all he could do, of course):

 

21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.

22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:

23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

 

 

There are certainly members of the church who begrudge the prodigals sons and daughters, just as the field laborers who labored all day begrudged those that worked only the last hour and got the same pay. If you don't believe that, come to my ward sometime and I'll introduce you to a couple. But, if you look around you will find them in your own ward.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Boanerges