danielwoods Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 SEE http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/oneness.shtml#Godhead http://www.godandscience.org/cults/body.html
thesometimesaint Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 http://www.godandscience.org/cults/body.html And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:Genesis 1:26 Christ appearance in the upper room after ResurrectionLuke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have Christ and God are one, and want us to be like them.John 17 This on again off again Resurrection thing of yours is confusing. 1
saemo Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 "Eternal Life" is an attribute of his [Fathers] nature not it's Entirty.The "I AM" is Jesus Christ not GOD The Father. Ex 3:14 cf Jn 8:58. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7When Moses asked God for His name, He said tell the people "I AM". "I AM" is the name God gave to Moses. Jesus, in John 8:58, tells the Jews he was speaking with, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM." The Jews, in response, prepared to stone Jesus for what they perceived as a blasphemy, ie, naming Himself GOD. Jesus is God.
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) http://www.godandscience.org/cults/body.html There are several logical flaws to the idea that God has a body of flesh and bone. The nature of the universe makes the idea of a human-looking God virtually impossible. Science tells us that the universe originally existed as nine tightly curled dimensions of space (see The Extradimensional Nature of God). The implications for the nature of God are obvious. God, who created the universe, must exist in at least one extra dimension above that of the universe in order to have created it. A three dimensional being cannot create a nine dimensional universe and have any ability to control it. You don't believe in a 14 billion year old universe. We don't know if God created the universe or not. If God created the universe, scientists agree that he can be a 3d being, see 39:00 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw5m4j_history-channel-the-universe-god-and-the-universe_tech There is a problem for the Trinity, if the big bang was absolute beginning, it means that God didn't have the time to create it Edited June 1, 2015 by TheSkepticChristian
Gray Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:Genesis 1:26 Christ appearance in the upper room after ResurrectionLuke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have Christ and God are one, and want us to be like them.John 17 This on again off again Resurrection thing of yours is confusing. In Mormon theology we interpret Genesis 1:26 literally and John 17 figuratively. Mainstream Christians reverse that, but it's hardly clear from the text which is the best interpretation.
danielwoods Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:Genesis 1:26 Christ appearance in the upper room after ResurrectionLuke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have Christ and God are one, and want us to be like them.John 17 This on again off again Resurrection thing of yours is confusing. "Man in our image" equals both Man and Woman together. So clearly the image of God isn't derived from a physical appearance. Christ was like God before he came to the Earth, as Spirit, and then he took of flesh and dwelt among us. So, it is plain that God the Father doesn't have flesh and bones.
danielwoods Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 You don't believe in a 14 billion year old universe. We don't know if God created the universe or not. If God created the universe, scientists agree that he can be a 3d being, see 39:00 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw5m4j_history-channel-the-universe-god-and-the-universe_tech There is a problem for the Trinity, if the big bang was absolute beginning, it means that God didn't have the time to create it Don't know how your reply is relevant, so I don't know what to respond to. Scientists can't detect God, so their opinion on the matter, doesn't.
Anakin7 Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 saemo I agree as also True LDS do that Jesus Is God who has The True God Nature as does God The Father and God The Holy Ghost/Spirit. He Is God The Son and also the Son of God. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
saemo Posted June 1, 2015 Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) saemo I agree as also True LDS do that Jesus Is God who has The True God Nature as does God The Father and God The Holy Ghost/Spirit. He Is God The Son and also the Son of God. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7I appreciate what we have in common. When I say Jesus is God, I mean God, as a singular noun, with Jesus as the second Person of the Holy Trinity. This is wholly rejected by Mormonism. Jesus, for LDS, is a God. Meaning for LDS, God as a plural noun, making Jesus one of many Gods. Your descriptions use Christian words and phrases, but have these relatively new meanings applied to them, and are wholly rejected by mainstream Christianity. Edited June 1, 2015 by saemo
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Don't know how your reply is relevant, so I don't know what to respond to. Scientists can't detect God, so their opinion on the matter, doesn't. I quoted your website
Anakin7 Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 saemo in LDS scripture Jesus Christ is referred to as "GOD" with additional Titles - Eternal ect... not just a god. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Vance Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Since John is written in Greek, I'm unclear what your point is. But, I understand how it is useless against your position since it doesn't rest on the Biblical text anyway. John may have been written in Greek but Jesus taught in Aramaic (a derivative of Hebrew) not Greek. So, the problem with your "tense" remains.
Vance Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 http://www.godandscience.org/cults/body.html James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. If the Father doesn't have a body, then He is not alive.
Vance Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) "Man in our image" equals both Man and Woman together. So clearly the image of God isn't derived from a physical appearance.Apparently you are unaware of your Heavenly Mother. Has there ever been a father without a mother? http://www.amazon.com/The-Divine-Feminine-Exploring-Around/dp/1573240354?tag=duckduckgo-d-20 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asherah http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/Hadley_Asherah.shtml http://www.northernway.org/hgoddess.html http://news.discovery.com/history/religion/god-wife-yahweh-asherah-110318.htm Christ was like God before he came to the Earth, as Spirit, and then he took of flesh and dwelt among us.This fact is not in dispute, so what is your point? So, it is plain that God the Father doesn't have flesh and bones.No, it is not. The Father is the Father, the Son, being the Son would have been less developed before He came to Earth. There can be no expectation that the Father was like the pre-mortal Son. There, however, IS an expectation that the resurrected Son would have become more like the Father. Edited June 2, 2015 by Vance 1
stephenpurdy Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead and quickeneth them, even so the Son quickeneth whom He will.John 5:24 Verily, verily I say unto you, he that heareth My Word and believeth in Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life.John 5:25 “Verily, verily I say unto you, the hour is coming and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live (ie shall be resurrected). 26 For as the Father hath life in Himself, so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself, Unfortunately that isn't the case. God the Father is never taught as being resurrected, or having a body. Eternal life is his nature, not what he attained. Notice that it says, "the Father has life in Himself" which indicates he's the source of all life. Eternal life flows from the "I AM", the source of all life, the only uncreated one. The context of the verses here is CLEARLY resurrection. God the Father is "the Resurrection and the Life" and He brought to pass resurrection. Now here, in this creation, Jesus is "the Resurrection and the Life". as the Father gave to Jesus the very same power and authority. The implication is clear, but you just don't seem to like what it implies. Previously Stephen wrote:Lets look at the phrase "image and likeness" as it is used in the Old Testament. Not only is it used to describe the son of Adam (his son looks like his father), but it is used often in the context of idol worship. Often in the Old Testament texts, we see people making an observation about something in the created Universe, whether it be in heaven or on earth. Perhaps they observed an Ox , an Eagle, a star (Sun), etc. They would then make a statue replica of that object , they would make an "image" or a "likeness" of that thing and begin to worship it. The root etymology of "image" is the SHADOW/SHAPE of the object. For example, the shadow/shape of a human would have a head, two arms, two legs, etc. If any of you have seen a statue of a human, then you have seen the image and likeness of that person. This is how the terms "image and likeness" are used EVERYWHERE in the Old Testament. Now, non-LDS would have us believe that this is what those words mean everywhere in the old Testament EXCEPT in Gen 1:26. There it MUST mean something different, because God simply has no image or likeness in that sense.Daniel responded: If the LDS have it correct, then one would expect other teachings throughout the Bible to confirm such teaching. But, what do we find? Don't make an image or likeness of God. Statements that indicate that the Father is Spirit, and that only Jesus has a body. Never is there a place in the Bible that teaches the Father possesses a body like man does. Listen to your argumentation here. There would be no point in making a command to "don't make an image or likeness of God" if God has no image or likeness to begin with. You have to admit that in order to pull off your interpretation, you have to make "image and likeness" in Genesis 1 mean something entirely different than it means everywhere else in the Old Testament. That is very , very poor interpretation. LDS are consistent. Image and likeness means the same thing throughout the entire Hebrew text. Furthermore, I have already demonstrated that your supposed "statements that indicate that the Father is Spirit" are very poor interpretations as well, that ignore the immediate context and language of those verses, as well as the general context and language of the New Testament. (See post 489) -Stephen
Vance Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) When I say Jesus is God, I mean God, as a singular noun, with Jesus as the second Person of the Holy Trinity. This is wholly rejected by Mormonism. Jesus, for LDS, is a God. Meaning for LDS, God as a plural noun, making Jesus one of many Gods. Your descriptions use Christian words and phrases, but have these relatively new meanings applied to them, and are wholly rejected by mainstream Christianity.From the beginning Jesus or Jehovah as He was known before His birth, had the authority to speak for, in behalf of, and AS the Father. So when this occurred, 41 ¶ While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? Edited June 2, 2015 by Vance
JLHPROF Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 "Man in our image" equals both Man and Woman together. So clearly the image of God isn't derived from a physical appearance. Christ was like God before he came to the Earth, as Spirit, and then he took of flesh and dwelt among us. So, it is plain that God the Father doesn't have flesh and bones. Then what was the purpose of Christ being resurrected?We know why the spirit Christ took a body and came to earth. So that we might live eternally as resurrected beings. Christ himself was resurrected. So what is a resurrected body? Do we go back to being spirits? Did Christ return to being a spirit as you claim God is?No, he has a body that can be touched, that still has the marks of nails within it. If Christ is merely a spirit being like the Father who took on a mortal form so he could die for us, then the resurrection becomes a completely pointless occurrence. Raising a physical body from the grave into perfection? Why? We can all just be spirits. 1
rodheadlee Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 Jesus is God.That is a fact, but He is not Heavenly Father.
saemo Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 From the beginning Jesus or Jehovah as He was known before His birth, had the authority to speak for, in behalf of, and AS the Father. So when this occurred, 41 ¶ While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?I'm sure you're trying to make a point.
halconero Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 In Mormon theology we interpret Genesis 1:26 literally and John 17 figuratively. Mainstream Christians reverse that, but it's hardly clear from the text which is the best interpretation. If read in English, sure. John 17 uses the neuter gender in Greek which figures into a oneness of characteristics than being. 2
saemo Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Then what was the purpose of Christ being resurrected?We know why the spirit Christ took a body and came to earth. So that we might live eternally as resurrected beings. Christ himself was resurrected.So what is a resurrected body? Do we go back to being spirits? Did Christ return to being a spirit as you claim God is?No, he has a body that can be touched, that still has the marks of nails within it.If Christ is merely a spirit being like the Father who took on a mortal form so he could die for us, then the resurrection becomes a completely pointless occurrence. Raising a physical body from the grave into perfection? Why? We can all just be spirits.A valid question I suppose, if you believe in a pre-existing soul. If you don't, then there is no "go back to being spirits". Humans are created, both soul and body. This is what we are because this us how God created us. He created us out of love, and desires to be our God, and us His people.In the Resurrection, we see that:Jesus conquered death, which proves most definitively the truth that He is divine and possesses the divine authority to which He claimed.Fulfills promises found in the OT and promises made by Jesus Himself during His ministry.Opens the way for us to new life.Makes Him the principle and source of our future resurrection, and so our lives are swept up by Christ into the divine life, and we no longer live for ourselves but for Him. Edited June 2, 2015 by saemo
mfbukowski Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 I see a lot of criticism and sarcasm. Don't answer the question, that's fine. It appears you did not understand my response. Your question as stated is nonsense and cannot be answered. You are asking for a non-metaphorical explanation of God which correctly describes his majesty in paltry human words. To even attempt it would be absurd.
saemo Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) saemo in LDS scripture Jesus Christ is referred to as "GOD" with additional Titles - Eternal ect... not just a god.In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7Yes, and LDS scripture puts any reference or title into a context of plurality of Gods. It is how you can view "God", as a title. "God" is not a title for mainstream Christians. God is one divine being who is, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. "Holy Trinity", you can view as a shorthand for all that we believe about the one God who we worship. Edited June 2, 2015 by saemo
mfbukowski Posted June 2, 2015 Posted June 2, 2015 If read in English, sure. John 17 uses the neuter gender in Greek which figures into a oneness of characteristics than being.What? You mean foreigners wrote the Bible?
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