JLHPROF Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 That is a good question. What does a God do with no offspring? He can't be a God. He has no kingdom.
Ahab Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 He can't be a God. He has no kingdom.The kind of being we all are is called "God" but the rest of your point is valid. But even without a kingdom we're all good for something.
JLHPROF Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) The kind of being we all are is called "God" but the rest of your point is valid. But even without a kingdom we're all good for something. God is both our species AND an office in the priesthood. We may be Gods by genetics and nature, but only those with a Kingdom to rule over get the title of God and the ability to increase that Kingdom eternally. D&C 132:20. Edited February 24, 2015 by JLHPROF
sundrytimes Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Hey guys, I was hoping for some help. I'm currently researching for a grad-level paper and need a working definition of eternal progression that would both accurately describe the idea and satisfy those who believe it. Here's what I have so far... “The doctrine embodied in the phrase eternal progression is that all people are engaged in moral growth, intellectual discovery, and spiritual development beginning in their premortal existence and lasting into eternity future, which may result in a form of apotheosis.” Note: Apotheosis is later defined as the deification of a mortal to the status of god, beyond the traditional Christian understanding of the term god-like. What do you think? 1
JLHPROF Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Hey guys, I was hoping for some help. I'm currently researching for a grad-level paper and need a working definition of eternal progression that would both accurately describe the idea and satisfy those who believe it. Here's what I have so far... “The doctrine embodied in the phrase eternal progression is that all people are engaged in moral growth, intellectual discovery, and spiritual development beginning in their premortal existence and lasting into eternity future, which may result in a form of apotheosis.” Note: Apotheosis is later defined as the deification of a mortal to the status of god, beyond the traditional Christian understanding of the term god-like. What do you think? I'm no academic, but it seems good to me. Seems to cover all the basics - including types of progression, the unending nature of progression, and the achievement of apotheosis at some point in the process. Personally, I think it's important to be clear that apotheosis doesn't mark the end of eternal progression but is merely a milestone, at least to my way of belief. Oh, and welcome to the board! Edited February 24, 2015 by JLHPROF
Ahab Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 God is both our species AND an office in the priesthood. We may be Gods by genetics and nature, but only those with a Kingdom to rule over get the title of God and the ability to increase that Kingdom eternally. D&C 132:20.You don't seem to have gotten my point yet.We all have the title of God regardless of how good or bad we are, and regardless of whether or not we have or may have an office in the priesthood that is labeled God. Even Satan is God, being the same kind of being as our Father in heaven, even though he is the opposite of how our Father is.Anyway, your other point was correct. Without people to follow us as their leader we would have no kingdom, unless maybe you consider an individual, alone, to be a kingdom himself/herself.
KevinG Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I feel as though the focus on sexual reproduction as the end all be all of eternal progression is flawed, and in some ways reflects the imperfect state of our mortality, and the degradation of our culture. There are 1000 things I look forward to in the eternities with my family (expansive as it might be) outside of increasing in numbers and the physical intimacy that implies. LearningPlayDiscoveryArtMusicGardening An infinite number of ways we can create and enlarge our souls for eternity. Population increase is among the least of these in my mind. That's why the "billions of babies, and your own planet" variations rubs me the wrong way. It's not about sex. Edited February 24, 2015 by KevinG
JLHPROF Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 You don't seem to have gotten my point yet.We all have the title of God regardless of how good or bad we are, and regardless of whether or not we have or may have an office in the priesthood that is labeled God. Even Satan is God, being the same kind of being as our Father in heaven, even though he is the opposite of how our Father is.Anyway, your other point was correct. Without people to follow us as their leader we would have no kingdom, unless maybe you consider an individual, alone, to be a kingdom himself/herself. I'm not sure what your point is, but I don't agree with this. Yes, Satan is the same kind of being as God. We all are.No, Satan is not a God (the office). And neither are we, yet.D&C 132:20 makes it clear that there is a time when we aren't Gods and a time when we become Gods if worthy. But I'm glad we agree on the other point - we don't get to agree all that often.
Ahab Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Hey guys, I was hoping for some help. I'm currently researching for a grad-level paper and need a working definition of eternal progression that would both accurately describe the idea and satisfy those who believe it. Here's what I have so far...“The doctrine embodied in the phrase eternal progression is that all people are engaged in moral growth, intellectual discovery, and spiritual development beginning in their premortal existence and lasting into eternity future, which may result in a form of apotheosis.”Note: Apotheosis is later defined as the deification of a mortal to the status of god, beyond the traditional Christian understanding of the term god-like.What do you think?Pretty good, but I would add the idea that our ultimate goal is to become as perfect and perfectly good as our Father in heaven, and our Mother in heaven too for that matter, and that the way we are to do that is by following the teachings of our Father, just as our Lord did.
Ahab Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure what your point is, but I don't agree with this.Yes you do. You just don't realize it yet.Yes, Satan is the same kind of being as God. We all are.See I told you. And what is the name we use to refer to the kind of being God is, that begins with a G, and has 3 letters? Come on. You can say it.No, Satan is not a God (the office). And neither are we, yet.As I said, we are the kind of being we are regardless of our office. D&C 132:20 makes it clear that there is a time when we aren't Gods and a time when we become Gods if worthy.You're confusing little g gods with the big G God I am talking about. I get and understand that. Kinda like how most members of the Church are little p prophets while not necessarily being a big P Prophet. Except that all of us are God regatdless of whether or not we are members of our Lord's church.But I'm glad we agree on the other point - we don't get to agree all that often. We actually get to agree and do agree most of the time, at least on doctrinal issues. Edited February 24, 2015 by Ahab
pogi Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) It's not about sex. True, it's not about sex, it's about familial relationships. Always has been and always will be. Remove that element and everything else becomes dull and gray, so "mama don't take my Kodachrome away!" Oneness with your spouse, children and with your parents throughout the generations, in a way that is only possible with God, is the pinnacle of existence. Everything else is an appendage to familial love as evidenced by the greatest commandment. Edited February 24, 2015 by pogi 1
sundrytimes Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I'm no academic, but it seems good to me. Seems to cover all the basics - including types of progression, the unending nature of progression, and the achievement of apotheosis at some point in the process. Personally, I think it's important to be clear that apotheosis doesn't mark the end of eternal progression but is merely a milestone, at least to my way of belief. Oh, and welcome to the board! Thank you so much for the guidance, that's a helpful bit about the milestone – hadn't thought to include that, but it is important.
sundrytimes Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Pretty good, but I would add the idea that our ultimate goal is to become as perfect and perfectly good as our Father in heaven, and our Mother in heaven too for that matter, and that the way we are to do that is by following the teachings of our Father, just as our Lord did. Thanks! Good suggestion, so perhaps the edited version would read, "...all people are engaged through obedience to divine ordinances in moral growth..."I'm open to better wording if needed
Ahab Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 Thanks! Good suggestion, so perhaps the edited version would read, "...all people are engaged through obedience to divine ordinances in moral growth..."I'm open to better wording if neededStill on the right track but yes maybe some better wording would help to get the point across. And you could say it all in many different ways. Like how we can be "obedient to divine ordinances (and laws and precepts and whatever) without even realizing that what we are doing is "divinely inspired". Just doing the right thing, repenting (doing the right thing instead of a bad thing) when a course correction is warranted, until we get to the point where we do everything right. You don't have to use "religious" terminology to get the point across, ya know.
theplains Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 So if that is true, are you in the camp that believes that anyone in any of the kingdoms could progress to become like God? I'm not LDS so I don't believe in exaltation to Godhood. Regards,Jim
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