intra Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Muslims hold that a person has to read the Qur'an in Arabic to properly understand it. almost every Christian Seminary school teaches Hebrew and Greek so scholars can better understand the scriptures by reading them in their original languages. the papyrus that the Book of Abraham was translated from exists, and though the church keeps the original document under lock-and-key, high-resolution scans of it are freely available to anyone via the internet and other resources. are Mormons likewise inclined to read the Book of Abraham in it's original form? if not, why not? the LDS church makes a point of stating they believe the Bible as accurately translated - so am i right to assume that LDS members have the same desire to learn Aramaic & Greek and Hebrew as the larger body of Christian believers? is it the same with Hieroglyphs? why or why not? thanks.
Uncle Dale Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 Muslims hold that a person has to read the Qur'an in Arabic to properly understand it. almost every Christian Seminary school teaches Hebrew and Greek so scholars can better understand the scriptures by reading them in their original languages. the papyrus that the Book of Abraham was translated from exists, and though the church keeps the original document under lock-and-key, high-resolution scans of it are freely available to anyone via the internet and other resources. are Mormons likewise inclined to read the Book of Abraham in it's original form? if not, why not? the LDS church makes a point of stating they believe the Bible as accurately translated - so am i right to assume that LDS members have the same desire to learn Aramaic & Greek and Hebrew as the larger body of Christian believers? is it the same with Hieroglyphs? why or why not? thanks. I purchased an interesting book, in the shop on the Provo BYU campus,of all places. "Quest for the Gold Plates." -- Not the sort of volume that is especially"faith-promoting." The fact that the Cougars' own bookstore was providingsuch a history, for interested readers, put a smile on my face. BYU scholars have made significant contributions to studies of the"Dead Sea Scrolls," and other objective research, if you recall. Do you? I expect that you may discover a few such "Y" graduates in the hallowedhalls of Ancient Near Eastern studies -- they have learned how to savetheir testimonies for F&T Sundays, and to carry on their objective studiesand research in fully acceptible ways, worthy of peer review and publication. Perhaps Provo does not need a center of Egyptian Studies -- all of the oldNear Eastern "good stuff" is already in the Marriott Library, 40 miles to the north. UD
Kenngo1969 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Isn't your Christmas vacation over yet, Intra? :UNKNW: 1
Duncan Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 who knows, in Canada there are only two Universities that offer it, U of Calgary and U of Toronto and in the US there are only 17 universities that offer it or something resembling it. In Germany 14 places offer it
Robert F. Smith Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) ................................................almost every Christian Seminary school teaches Hebrew and Greek so scholars can better understand the scriptures by reading them in their original languages.Serious training in Hebrew and Greek is no longer required of most Christian seminarians, nor is Latin for Catholic priests in training. Most pastors do not intend to become scholars. So the really serious training is allocated to a few centrally located facilities, such as the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley.the papyrus that the Book of Abraham was translated from exists, and though the church keeps the original document under lock-and-key, high-resolution scans of it are freely available to anyone via the internet and other resources. are Mormons likewise inclined to read the Book of Abraham in it's original form? if not, why not?False, intra. The papyrus from which the BofA was translated does not exist, even though the three facsimilies can be read. LDS Egyptologists can read the documents you speak of as being freely available, but they are not the BofA. the LDS church makes a point of stating they believe the Bible as accurately translated - so am i right to assume that LDS members have the same desire to learn Aramaic & Greek and Hebrew as the larger body of Christian believers? is it the same with Hieroglyphs? why or why not?...........Of course, there are a number of Semitists and Greek experts among the Mormons, just as they have a number of Egyptologists. However, your post announces itself as "Why Doesn't Byu Have A Department Of Egyptology?" They probably don't since it is a very expensive endeavor and there is no demand for it. Separate departments of Egyptology are very rare, as are the jobs available to graduates. If a BYU student wants to become a Hebraist or Egyptologist, he can obtain a B.A. in Ancient Near Eastern Studies at BYU, with focus on biblical Hebrew, etc., and then proceed to graduate school at a major research university which has that advanced option. Several mature scholars at BYU have gone that route. Edited January 5, 2015 by Robert F. Smith 3
SamIam Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Because they couldn't get a note from their mummy 4
bcuzbcuz Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Muslims hold that a person has to read the Qur'an in Arabic to properly understand it. almost every Christian Seminary school teaches Hebrew and Greek so scholars can better understand the scriptures by reading them in their original languages. the papyrus that the Book of Abraham was translated from exists, and though the church keeps the original document under lock-and-key, high-resolution scans of it are freely available to anyone via the internet and other resources. are Mormons likewise inclined to read the Book of Abraham in it's original form? if not, why not? the LDS church makes a point of stating they believe the Bible as accurately translated - so am i right to assume that LDS members have the same desire to learn Aramaic & Greek and Hebrew as the larger body of Christian believers? is it the same with Hieroglyphs? why or why not? thanks. Muslims hold that a person has to read the Qur'an in Arabic to properly understand it. almost every Christian Seminary school teaches Hebrew and Greek so scholars can better understand the scriptures by reading them in their original languages. the papyrus that the Book of Abraham was translated from exists, and though the church keeps the original document under lock-and-key, high-resolution scans of it are freely available to anyone via the internet and other resources. are Mormons likewise inclined to read the Book of Abraham in it's original form? if not, why not? the LDS church makes a point of stating they believe the Bible as accurately translated - so am i right to assume that LDS members have the same desire to learn Aramaic & Greek and Hebrew as the larger body of Christian believers? is it the same with Hieroglyphs? why or why not? thanks. I am currently doing exactly what you propose. I am into my second year of Egyptology, currently working with Middle Egyptian grammar, transliterating and translating ancient texts from hieroglyphics. I will decide at the end of this year which studies of hieratics texts I will continue with. Egyptian grammar is difficult, especially the verb forms and that the personal pronouns are quite often not included in the texts, I have a class companion who is also taking a second major in cuneform, but he is fluent in 13 languages and a glutton for punishment. We both visit libraries and museums around Europe to get to see Egyptian texts first hand. German institutes have amzing collections, everything from stelae in superb condition and hundreds of thousands of papyri texts. Denmark's Carlberg collection is nothing to sneer at either, and they offer superb studies and text preservation courses. I am studying Egyptology linguistics at Uppsala University in Sweden. My buddy and myself are both retired from our life careers and since university is free here (although the books are outrageously expensive) we can devote all our free time to our studies. I'm currently sitting in the Sheremetyevo airport in Moscow on my way home from ten days in Egypt.But as has been pointed out from others, Egyptian studies are useless in connection to Book of Abraham studies. Nothing in the Book of Abraham corresponds to linguistic studies of the texts and facsimiles owned by the church. The names of the people/gods/ figures do not match Egyptian studies. The translation offered by Joseph Smith actually have nothing to do with hieratic texts still available for study. The KEP papers are no help either. I'm studying Egyptology, not to provide any understanding of the Book of Abraham, but just to fulfill a childhood passion with pyramids, mummies and dusty old pots and tools. 2
Kaleb Webb Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Muslims hold that a person has to read the Qur'an in Arabic to properly understand it. almost every Christian Seminary school teaches Hebrew and Greek so scholars can better understand the scriptures by reading them in their original languages. the papyrus that the Book of Abraham was translated from exists, and though the church keeps the original document under lock-and-key, high-resolution scans of it are freely available to anyone via the internet and other resources. are Mormons likewise inclined to read the Book of Abraham in it's original form? if not, why not? the LDS church makes a point of stating they believe the Bible as accurately translated - so am i right to assume that LDS members have the same desire to learn Aramaic & Greek and Hebrew as the larger body of Christian believers? is it the same with Hieroglyphs? why or why not? thanks. We don't have all the papyrus that Joseph Smith used, but the parts we do have don't seem to say the same things that the Book of Abraham in English does, at least according to a lot of Egyptologists who have translated the papyrus.
Avatar4321 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Well considering we have a command to obtain all knowledge from every field, why don't we have every department possible at byu? My guess is scarcity of resources 2
The Nehor Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Well considering we have a command to obtain all knowledge from every field, why don't we have every department possible at byu? My guess is scarcity of resourcesMy proposal for an underwater basket-weaving department was denied. 1
katherine the great Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Most universities do not have a department of Egyptology.
Guest Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Most universities do not have a department of Egyptology.I would ask him why Christian Churches do not have such departments. My guess that nothing of the incredible issues in Exodus appear anywhere in their writings. Also since our faith is not in their writings and we do not have the text from which the BoA was translated (other than fragments)...what would be the point. We do have Muslim and Islamic studies and Middle Eastern studies. What a min...why am I saying "we"....I believe in the True University, University of Georgia...where we have a real football team.
ERayR Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Well considering we have a command to obtain all knowledge from every field, why don't we have every department possible at byu? My guess is scarcity of resources Others have good departments in these other areas so that one can gain from their investment without the Church spending large sums.
Buckeye Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Frankly, I'm more interested in BYU getting a medical and/or dental school. Mummies are great, but .... 1
ERayR Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Frankly, I'm more interested in BYU getting a medical and/or dental school. Mummies are great, but .... But then U of U has a very good medical center.
Buckeye Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 But then U of U has a very good medical center. A very good one. It's even well regarded out here in Ohio.
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Why should it have a dept of Egyptology? You have yet to make a convincing case to have one.
The Nehor Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) Frankly, I'm more interested in BYU getting a medical and/or dental school. Mummies are great, but ....Frankly, I'm more interested in BYU getting a medical and/or dental school. Mummies are great, but ....But if we do not know which organs to put into which canopic jars how can we expect a ressurection? Edited January 5, 2015 by The Nehor
bcuzbcuz Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 Why should it have a dept of Egyptology? You have yet to make a convincing case to have one.You're right. Since the Book of Abraham has nothinhg to do with any thing Egyptian, such a department would be totally useless.
ERayR Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 You're right. Since the Book of Abraham has nothinhg to do with any thing Egyptian, such a department would be totally useless. Like some opinions. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Why should it have a dept of Egyptology? You have yet to make a convincing case to have one.Yes, and Utah has no advanced degrees in ancient Near Eastern studies in general. One must leave the state in order to enter a graduate program in Hebrew or Egyptian. Meantime, you can get an MBA, or a doctorate in engineering. Utahns are very practical. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 .................................................................... But as has been pointed out from others, Egyptian studies are useless in connection to Book of Abraham studies. Nothing in the Book of Abraham corresponds to linguistic studies of the texts and facsimiles owned by the church. The names of the people/gods/ figures do not match Egyptian studies. The translation offered by Joseph Smith actually have nothing to do with hieratic texts still available for study. The KEP papers are no help either.................................................................................................... You're right. Since the Book of Abraham has nothinhg to do with any thing Egyptian, such a department would be totally useless.I beg to differ, bcuz, as you knew I would, and you can see my quite opposite position in my “A Brief Assessment of the LDS Book of Abraham,” Dec 2012, version 8 online August 18, 2014, at http://www.scribd.com/doc/118810727/A-Brief-Assessment-of-the-LDS-Book-of-Abraham . Meantime, I wish you well in your studies and frequent trips abroad..
Avatar4321 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Personally I think byu should play it's strengths and expand it's modern language and international studies departments. I mean we have people who speak languages and been throughout the world. We could easily be leaders in this area. 1
bcuzbcuz Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I beg to differ, bcuz, as you knew I would, and you can see my quite opposite position in my “A Brief Assessment of the LDS Book of Abraham,” Dec 2012, version 8 online August 18, 2014, at http://www.scribd.com/doc/118810727/A-Brief-Assessment-of-the-LDS-Book-of-Abraham . Meantime, I wish you well in your studies and frequent trips abroad..i appreciate your response. I'd actually downloaded your article before but only read the first 10 pages. I'm caught in a new time bind and won't have time to finish reading your article (which I am glad you Scribd. I love that app) until the 20th of this month. But that's OK. I'm known to have opinions about things I know nothing about. (my kids point that out continuously)
Robert F. Smith Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 i appreciate your response. I'd actually downloaded your article before but only read the first 10 pages. I'm caught in a new time bind and won't have time to finish reading your article (which I am glad you Scribd. I love that app) until the 20th of this month.But that's OK. I'm known to have opinions about things I know nothing about. (my kids point that out continuously)No problem. My kids and grandkid ofen take me to task as well, and they are usually right. Fortunately they have more important things to do.
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