Mormonism Not A Cult

[Rodeo]

I am often times quitealarmed when fellow followers fall away from the chuch and then go on to define it as a cult. This paints a picture to others that we are some secret society where we have sinister mind controlling dangerous practices. But if one looks entirely at the structure of the church and the way it operates then it becomes rather obvious we have nothing to hide and welcome all. Living within our religious beliefs gives us the greatest happiness we can achieve and the most freedom possible. I read from time to time on the web about dear loved ones who have fallen away from the church and call or/and treat the church as a cult that has damaged them. But upon careful research and study it becomes apparent that they left on their own free choice and left because their morals do not align with the church. Almost every case is this way and it troubles me that one just can't leave the church without all the name calling and false accusations. I do believe there are a few corrupt leaders not living in accordance with the Holy Ghost which does cause some wrong deeds to people but theses are far and few between. I thought I would post this here just so that anyone who googles "mormonism a cult" may find this forum and search its contents and come to know we are not a cult. The church doesnt damage people. People damage people, not the church. If people do leave the church its because of bad or misinformed people or because they are not aligned morally anymore with the church beliefs. But please stop calling us a cult or label the "church" as being the cause that damaged you.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I think the best thing to do is just replace the word secret with "sacred".

[teddyaware]

I am often times quitealarmed when fellow followers fall away from the chuch and then go on to define it as a cult. This paints a picture to others that we are some secret society where we have sinister mind controlling dangerous practices. But if one looks entirely at the structure of the church and the way it operates then it becomes rather obvious we have nothing to hide and welcome all. Living within our religious beliefs gives us the greatest happiness we can achieve and the most freedom possible. I read from time to time on the web about dear loved ones who have fallen away from the church and call or/and treat the church as a cult that has damaged them. But upon careful research and study it becomes apparent that they left on their own free choice and left because their morals do not align with the church. Almost every case is this way and it troubles me that one just can't leave the church without all the name calling and false accusations. I do believe there are a few corrupt leaders not living in accordance with the Holy Ghost which does cause some wrong deeds to people but theses are far and few between. I thought I would post this here just so that anyone who googles "mormonism a cult" may find this forum and search its contents and come to know we are not a cult. The church doesnt damage people. People damage people, not the church. If people do leave the church its because of bad or misinformed people or because they are not aligned morally anymore with the church beliefs. But please stop calling us a cult or label the "church" as being the cause that damaged you.

 

If the ancient apostolic church of Christ was transported through time to our day and put in modern clothing and hairstyles, they would sure as shootin' be considered a cult by the non-LDS Christian world. All the signs of a so-called cult would be there:

 

1)   Charismatic leaders who claim they have the only truth and that all other religions are "out of the way."

2)   Claims of being the only true church and possessing the only true priesthood and authority of God.

3)   High expectations of obedience and compliance by the church members.

4)   Claiming to have a direct line of communication with God through revelation.

5)   Claims of the right to add to the canon of scripture and following through with that right by adding new scripture.

6)   Claims of angelic visitations to bestow keys of authority and further light and knowledge of the God.

8.   Claims that that the founder of the church was called directly by God to establish the church.

9)   Claims that the day of revelation has not come to an end and that there is much more scripture to come.

10) Claims of possessing the keys of the kingdom or God with power to seal in heaven that which is sealed on earth.

11) Claims of deeper hidden knowledge (the meat of the gospel) only known and understood by a select few.

12) Being hated and persecuted as fraudulent impostors by the religious establishment.

13) A practice of baptizing living people as proxies for the dead who were not baptized.

14) A belief that the gospel is peached to the dead that they might be judged according to men in the flesh.

15) A belief that the ordinance of baptism by immersion is an absolutely necessary prerequisite to salvation.

16) Living apostles and prophets at the head of the church who's authority can be traced back to Christ.

 

I've got to go to work.

Edited September 3, 2014 by teddyaware

[cinepro]

I am often times quitealarmed when fellow followers fall away from the chuch and then go on to define it as a cult. This paints a picture to others that we are some secret society where we have sinister mind controlling dangerous practices. But if one looks entirely at the structure of the church and the way it operates then it becomes rather obvious we have nothing to hide and welcome all. Living within our religious beliefs gives us the greatest happiness we can achieve and the most freedom possible. I read from time to time on the web about dear loved ones who have fallen away from the church and call or/and treat the church as a cult that has damaged them. But upon careful research and study it becomes apparent that they left on their own free choice and left because their morals do not align with the church. Almost every case is this way and it troubles me that one just can't leave the church without all the name calling and false accusations. I do believe there are a few corrupt leaders not living in accordance with the Holy Ghost which does cause some wrong deeds to people but theses are far and few between. I thought I would post this here just so that anyone who googles "mormonism a cult" may find this forum and search its contents and come to know we are not a cult. The church doesnt damage people. People damage people, not the church. If people do leave the church its because of bad or misinformed people or because they are not aligned morally anymore with the church beliefs. But please stop calling us a cult or label the "church" as being the cause that damaged you.

 

 

Thank you for your nuanced and well-thought out analysis of the situation.  Most people would have resorted to cliches, stereotypes and generalizations, but I think all ex-Mormons would agree that you have represented their concerns well.  Sometimes in the Church we insist that we should be the ones to explain ourselves to others, and perhaps this principle might also apply to others, but obviously not in this case.

 

So while some might argue that ex-Mormons should themselves be the ones to explain why they might take a particular attitude towards the Church, I think we can all agree that you are the one to both explain and demolish their accusation towards the LDS Church being a "cult" and we can finally put this one to rest.

Edited September 3, 2014 by cinepro

[Calm]

"But upon careful research and study it becomes apparent that they left on their own free choice and left because their morals do not align with the church."

If almost every case is this way, then undoubtedly you can find evidence of such pretty easily. Please post.

Edited September 3, 2014 by calmoriah

[Storm Rider]

In my dotage I have learned to move on.  When I have come upon these type of people I just move on. I don't have time with the emotional baggage they carry around overwhelming the obviously minimal coping skills they presently possess.  

 

In addition, I find that they are a glass that continuously overflows without any ability to listen or hear another speak or share a contrary opinion. 

 

I enjoy taking the time to talk with someone that can think, discuss, while continuing to worship Christ and welcome his Spirit to the conversation.  If they are sour I wish them well and move on.  It works for me and I suspect that it works for those I walk away from.  We are not here to control their lives or to bend their thoughts to our own opinions.  When they are ready someone will talk to them and help soften their hearts so that they can again rejoice in the glory of Christ and appreciate everyone else that seeks after him in their own way.  

[Tacenda]

"But upon careful research and study it becomes apparent that they left on their own free choice and left because their morals do not align with the church."

If almost every case is this way, then undoubtedly you can find evidence of such pretty easily. Please post.

Ditto

[Rodeo]

"But upon careful research and study it becomes apparent that they left on their own free choice and left because their morals do not align with the church."

If almost every case is this way, then undoubtedly you can find evidence of such pretty easily. Please post.

I am just drawing off the cases of people in whom I personally know who live in my area. I would prefer to keep their names private. It is just a trend i have noticed. 

[Tacenda]

I am just drawing off the cases of people in whom I personally know who live in my area. I would prefer to keep their names private. It is just a trend i have noticed. 

Do you know for a fact that they only wanted out of the church to sin?  Have you ever asked?  You might find a different picture.  

 

Maybe you could read the intros on staylds.com and New Order Mormon, it would show case after case that are opposite of what you mention.  Many who leave the church don't start out on the path to not want to align morally with the church.  

 

Before this happens they usually start out very stalwart and faithful, then stumble upon historical issues or have callings that can try their testimonies, whether it be ward councils or other members, or church culture.  There could be a gambit of reasons, and usually it's the most faithful that are willing to search their faith, some not so faithful will not attempt it, fearing what they might find. 

 

I posted an example below.  Sometimes this attitude can turn into belief the church can be cultish.   

 

 

Hi Friends,

I was born in the church, served a mission, married in temple, and have 3 kids. Two and a half years ago I stumbled upon Michael Quinn’s Post Manifesto Polygamy essay and I went right down the rabbit hole (curse you Michael Quinn). I now consider myself an amateur LDS historian, but I’m careful where I get my information. I take issue with several items in the story of the church, which when combined, concern me. They include: Joseph’s reputation before the BoM and court documents to show for it, the inconsistent Priesthood restoration narrative, Fanny Alger, Nauvoo polygamy and deception of Emma, the succession after Joseph’s death, pretty much anything Brigham said or did, Utah polygamy, the rhetoric around the black curse, etc. Having studied numerous accounts of Joseph, the pattern of character is alarming to me. When I finished RSR, I thought to myself there must be some sort of mental illness there. Then come to find out, we were living not far from an asylum in Illinois where Joseph’s youngest son, David, spent the last 27 years of his life as a patient. That stuff runs in the family. I know from experience. All this concerns me.

The way we present our history makes me uncomfortable and the way we use these one-sided victim narratives to build faith concerns me and makes me nervous about raising my kids. I don’t like the methods we use to build testimonies. It reeks of coerciveness.

My wife does not share my concerns, though she is willing to listen, which I’m grateful for. But there have been some tough times, especially in the beginning when I didn’t know how to articulate my thoughts. I get bitter and upset when I see the church perpetuating a culture that encourages people to view people like myself as broken, less faithful, or nitpicking. It’s extremely hurtful and strains my relationship with my wife. Losing the certainly that the church was 100% what it claimed to be was hard enough, but the complexity, pain and loneliness experienced after that is what makes me most sad. The pain is real. And indescribable. Without any help from me, my parents (both teenage converts) left the church last year over historical/cultural issues. My mom was a silent outsider for years. My dad is still pretty bent over the whole thing. This adds another layer of complexity to my relationship with my wife and in-laws. I'm still trying to somehow make this work for my wife, while feeling good about myself and my integrity.

I’ve been hesitant to join support groups like this, but I think I’ve come to the realization that there is strength in having a place to be completely authentic. It’s for my own health.

[JLHPROF]

Cult is such a stupid label.  Any religion can be called a cult by another religion.  Christians call Mormons a cult.  Humanists call Christians a cult.  Mormons call Fundamentalists a cult.  There are religious definitions, sociological definitions, anthropological definitions.  It's all completely subjective.

 

Basically - I agree = religion / I think you're nuts = cult.

[Rodeo]

Do you know for a fact that they only wanted out of the church to sin?  Have you ever asked?  You might find a different picture.  

 

Maybe you could read the intros on staylds.com and New Order Mormon, it would show case after case that are opposite of what you mention.  Many who leave the church don't start out on the path to not want to align morally with the church.  

 

Before this happens they usually start out very stalwart and faithful, then stumble upon historical issues or have callings that can try their testimonies, whether it be ward councils or other members, or church culture.  There could be a gambit of reasons, and usually it's the most faithful that are willing to search their faith, some not so faithful will not attempt it, fearing what they might find. 

 

I posted an example below.  Sometimes this attitude can turn into belief the church can be cultish.   

 

 

Hi Friends,

I was born in the church, served a mission, married in temple, and have 3 kids. Two and a half years ago I stumbled upon Michael Quinn’s Post Manifesto Polygamy essay and I went right down the rabbit hole (curse you Michael Quinn). I now consider myself an amateur LDS historian, but I’m careful where I get my information. I take issue with several items in the story of the church, which when combined, concern me. They include: Joseph’s reputation before the BoM and court documents to show for it, the inconsistent Priesthood restoration narrative, Fanny Alger, Nauvoo polygamy and deception of Emma, the succession after Joseph’s death, pretty much anything Brigham said or did, Utah polygamy, the rhetoric around the black curse, etc. Having studied numerous accounts of Joseph, the pattern of character is alarming to me. When I finished RSR, I thought to myself there must be some sort of mental illness there. Then come to find out, we were living not far from an asylum in Illinois where Joseph’s youngest son, David, spent the last 27 years of his life as a patient. That stuff runs in the family. I know from experience. All this concerns me.

The way we present our history makes me uncomfortable and the way we use these one-sided victim narratives to build faith concerns me and makes me nervous about raising my kids. I don’t like the methods we use to build testimonies. It reeks of coerciveness.

My wife does not share my concerns, though she is willing to listen, which I’m grateful for. But there have been some tough times, especially in the beginning when I didn’t know how to articulate my thoughts. I get bitter and upset when I see the church perpetuating a culture that encourages people to view people like myself as broken, less faithful, or nitpicking. It’s extremely hurtful and strains my relationship with my wife. Losing the certainly that the church was 100% what it claimed to be was hard enough, but the complexity, pain and loneliness experienced after that is what makes me most sad. The pain is real. And indescribable. Without any help from me, my parents (both teenage converts) left the church last year over historical/cultural issues. My mom was a silent outsider for years. My dad is still pretty bent over the whole thing. This adds another layer of complexity to my relationship with my wife and in-laws. I'm still trying to somehow make this work for my wife, while feeling good about myself and my integrity.

I’ve been hesitant to join support groups like this, but I think I’ve come to the realization that there is strength in having a place to be completely authentic. It’s for my own health.

I should have included those with history issues also. Some of our own church history is a bit of a mystery. Ironically though, the main subject of whom I write about said they left over historical issues but then I found out later that their main reason was over the non acceptance of homosexual behavior and same sex marriage. (BTW, they are straight).

[cinepro]

I am just drawing off the cases of people in whom I personally know who live in my area. I would prefer to keep their names private. It is just a trend i have noticed. 

 

Are you judging this based solely on the actions of the people after they leave the Church?

[Rodeo]

Are you judging this based solely on the actions of the people after they leave the Church?

Not quite sure how I am judging this other than I am just connecting dots at this point. My connected dots go something like- person falls away from church, person then states it was for this or that reason, then later find out this person has some moral issue or disagreement with the church. Not sure if it happens later or was part of them falling away to begin with. Still just trying to connect the dots. Might be I have just been surrounded by a few coincedental events and my suspicion has led me to only see this. n

[Brian 2.0]

I should have included those with history issues also. Some of our own church history is a bit of a mystery. Ironically though, the main subject of whom I write about said they left over historical issues but then I found out later that their main reason was over the non acceptance of homosexual behavior and same sex marriage. (BTW, they are straight).

Speaking for myself. I left over historical issues. I ALSO personally disagree with the church's stance on gays. But if the church suddenly accepted SSM and all SS behavior, I wouldn't turn around a return to activity in the church. And I wonder if the people you speak of would.

And going at it the other way... If the historical issues weren't there, and the church had it's current stance on SSM and SS behavior, I probably would be still active.