Canadaigua Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 Christians and LDS have a few similar beliefs as it pertains to the latter times.Events such as: The two prophets who will be killed and then raised; increased turmoil and wickedness; earthquakes; pestilence; the battle of Armageddon; the second coming of Christ. However there certainly are some major differences. When I have discussed end times with LDS members they don't seem to any anticipated sequence of events, and they often give conflicting information. Is there any official position on this subject that can be found on LDS.org? This would certainly be helpful for further discussion but also would be helpful for those LDS who seem to be unclear about their own doctrine.
ERayR Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 Christians and LDS have a few similar beliefs as it pertains to the latter times.Events such as: The two prophets who will be killed and then raised; increased turmoil and wickedness; earthquakes; pestilence; the battle of Armageddon; the second coming of Christ. However there certainly are some major differences. When I have discussed end times with LDS members they don't seem to any anticipated sequence of events, and they often give conflicting information. Is there any official position on this subject that can be found on LDS.org? This would certainly be helpful for further discussion but also would be helpful for those LDS who seem to be unclear about their own doctrine. If we are going to dialog here lets get something straight, LDS are Christians. Are you referring to the non-biblical concept of the rapture? 3
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 I think I'm going to die well before the 2nd coming.
guerreiro9 Posted September 2, 2014 Posted September 2, 2014 Christians and LDS have a few similar beliefs as it pertains to the latter times.Events such as: The two prophets who will be killed and then raised; increased turmoil and wickedness; earthquakes; pestilence; the battle of Armageddon; the second coming of Christ. However there certainly are some major differences. When I have discussed end times with LDS members they don't seem to any anticipated sequence of events, and they often give conflicting information. Is there any official position on this subject that can be found on LDS.org? This would certainly be helpful for further discussion but also would be helpful for those LDS who seem to be unclear about their own doctrine.The most concise "official" position is probably in the Gospel Principles manual. This is the manual used to teach the Sunday school courses to new members and those investigating the Church.It is available on LDS.org and in the Gospel Library App available on the App Store and Google Play. The last few chapters deal with the second coming of Christ.https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-43-signs-of-the-second-coming?lang=eng-guerreiro9 1
teddyaware Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) If we are going to dialog here lets get something straight, LDS are Christians. Are you referring to the non-biblical concept of the rapture? Actually, the LDS Church does teach that at the time of the Second Coming the saints will be "caught up" to meet the Saviour in the air. Where we part ways with some Evangelicals is that we believe this miraculous event will happen at the time of the Saviour's glorious return and not years prior to that great event. Why in the world the Evangelical Christians think they're so unique that they won't have to pass through the trials of the great tribulation of the last days (in likeness of the terrible persecutions endured by the Apostles and saints of the Apostolic Era) is beyond me. What will these Evangelical Christians think of their leaders when the rapture never comes and due to their lack of preparation they're left starving and destitute? I'll bet they run to the Latter-day Saints for refuge. It will be a period of mass conversion. 96 And the saints that are upon the earth, who are alive, shall be quickened and be caught up to meet him. 97 And they who have slept in their graves shall come forth, for their graves shall be opened; and they also shall be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven— 98 They are Christ’s, the first fruits, they who shall descend with him first, and they who are on the earth and in their graves, who are first caught up to meet him; and all this by the voice of the sounding of the trump of the angel of God. (D&C 88) Edited September 3, 2014 by teddyaware 1
Canadaigua Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 Are you referring to the non-biblical concept of the rapture?Rapture is just one of many things. Out of interest why do you say that the rapture is "non-biblical" since it is in the Bible? (I have discussed this topic with LDS and some believe in the rapture--however they differ on the timing of course)
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 I'm an uneducated LDS as pointed out by Garden Girl before, but I know we believe in the 2nd coming and the millennium. Not sure about the rapture.
guerreiro9 Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Rapture is just one of many things. Out of interest why do you say that the rapture is "non-biblical" since it is in the Bible?(I have discussed this topic with LDS and some believe in the rapture--however they differ on the timing of course)What do you believe the rapture to be, and what is the biblical support for it?I am unaware of any religion that limits its teaching to strictly what is retained in the Bible. This would eliminate all interpretation and speculation and what would be the fun in that?-guerreiro9 1
Guest Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Christians and LDS have a few similar beliefs as it pertains to the latter times.Events such as: The two prophets who will be killed and then raised; increased turmoil and wickedness; earthquakes; pestilence; the battle of Armageddon; the second coming of Christ. However there certainly are some major differences. When I have discussed end times with LDS members they don't seem to any anticipated sequence of events, and they often give conflicting information. Is there any official position on this subject that can be found on LDS.org? This would certainly be helpful for further discussion but also would be helpful for those LDS who seem to be unclear about their own doctrine.Matthew 24, Christ's words alone. Of all chapter of the Bible Joseph Smith worked on this is the only chapter in total in JST.
Canadaigua Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 What do you believe the rapture to be, and what is the biblical support for it?I am unaware of any religion that limits its teaching to strictly what is retained in the Bible. This would eliminate all interpretation and speculation and what would be the fun in that?-guerreiro9The believers at some point in time between now and the Second Coming of Christ with be transformed (resurrected) and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. The debate is usually about the timing of this event not so much if it will happen. The LDS who I have spoken with about this topic and believe it, believe that this will take place at the time of the Second Coming. Biblical support can be found in the following verses.1 Thessalonians 4:15–1815 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
mfbukowski Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 The believers at some point in time between now and the Second Coming of Christ with be transformed (resurrected) and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. The debate is usually about the timing of this event not so much if it will happen. The LDS who I have spoken with about this topic and believe it, believe that this will take place at the time of the Second Coming. Biblical support can be found in the following verses.1 Thessalonians 4:15–1815 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.Odd you would contradict what the bible clearly says, in your post. The bible says it will happen at the Lord's coming, your post says it will come before.Didn't you read that passage before posting? 3
VideoGameJunkie Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 I assume I'll be long dead before it happens, but if it does happen while I'm alive I sure hope I'm awake for it. I like to sleep in.
Canadaigua Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 Odd you would contradict what the bible clearly says, in your post. The bible says it will happen at the Lord's coming, your post says it will come before.Didn't you read that passage before posting?So you would agree that there will be a rapture--but disagree with others on the timing. Is that a fair assessment of your position?
MDalby Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 We do believe in the rapture BUT... ...many protestants believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. They believe that before there are tribulations before the Second Coming, the Saints will be caught up. This is not Biblical. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.Rev 13:7 LDS primarily have been cautioned that the correct approach to study of the signs of the times is not to attach dates and predict when certain events will occur. The correct approach is to study and be aware of the events and when they occur we will be able to recognize their fulfillment. there are times when certain events have a sequential order of fulfillment and we know that one event cannot occur until another dependency is in place. This is a good source for references to the signs of the times. http://LDSLastDays.com 1
Canadaigua Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 (edited) We do believe in the rapture BUT... ...many protestants believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. They believe that before there are tribulations before the Second Coming, the Saints will be caught up. This is not Biblical. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.Rev 13:7 LDS primarily have been cautioned that the correct approach to study of the signs of the times is not to attach dates and predict when certain events will occur. The correct approach is to study and be aware of the events and when they occur we will be able to recognize their fulfillment. there are times when certain events have a sequential order of fulfillment and we know that one event cannot occur until another dependency is in place. This is a good source for references to the signs of the times. http://LDSLastDays.com Thanks for the link. You are correct some believe in a pre tribulation rapture such as myself but other Protestants believe in a mid trib, and some even a post tribulation rapture (most similar to the LDS position). Each has reasons for why they believe what they do. For example you supported your position (a post tribulation rapture) with Revelation 13:7. But from a pre trib point of view this doesn't conflict at all because there will be many people who were not believers who convert during the tribulation period often referred to as tribulation saints, and they will likely lose their life for their profession of faith in Christ. One issue I see with the post trib rapture is that those who are raptured are resurrected--they go up to meet Christ in the air and are resurrected--then come immediately back down to earth. If all of the believers are resurrected then who is left to populate the millennium? Edited September 3, 2014 by Canadaigua
danielwoods Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Thanks for the link. You are correct some believe in a pre tribulation rapture such as myself but other Protestants believe in a mid trib, and some even a post tribulation rapture (most similar to the LDS position). Each has reasons for why they believe what they do. For example you supported your position (a post tribulation rapture) with Revelation 13:7. But from a pre trib point of view this doesn't conflict at all because there will be many people who were not believers who convert during the tribulation period often referred to as tribulation saints, and they will likely lose their life for their profession of faith in Christ. One issue I see with the post trib rapture is that those who are raptured are resurrected--they go up to meet Christ in the air and are resurrected--then come immediately back down to earth. If all of the believers are resurrected then who is left to populate the millennium? Also interesting that the "Church" isn't mentioned in the book of Revelation after Chapter 4. We are called the church, repeatedly before that. Where John is also told there, to "Come up here" (an indication of what occurs in the rapture) before the description of the tribulation occurs in the following chapters.
mfbukowski Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 So you would agree that there will be a rapture--but disagree with others on the timing. Is that a fair assessment of your position?Yes, as everyone has been telling you if you just read the thread. We agree with what the bible actually says in that passage. Do you believe in the Bible?
Senator Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Why are we led to believe that future prophetic utterances have any less measure of "symbolism, allegory, metaphor", than prophetic utterances of the prehistoric past?
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Odd you would contradict what the bible clearly says, in your post. The bible says it will happen at the Lord's coming, your post says it will come before.Didn't you read that passage before posting?I was thinking the same thing. Really kind of funny.
Canadaigua Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 Yes, as everyone has been telling you if you just read the thread. We agree with what the bible actually says in that passage. Do you believe in the Bible?Actually you don't all agree with this. Take a look at post #2.
Canadaigua Posted September 3, 2014 Author Posted September 3, 2014 Odd you would contradict what the bible clearly says, in your post. The bible says it will happen at the Lord's coming, your post says it will come before.Didn't you read that passage before posting?1 Thessalonians 4:15–1815 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Here is the passage that you are referring to that I quoted in my post. If you take a close look at it again it doesn't say that Christ comes to the Earth so this event precedes the Second Coming of Christ by a period of time.
ERayR Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 Actually you don't all agree with this. Take a look at post #2. Where did you get this from post #2?
Jeanne Posted September 3, 2014 Posted September 3, 2014 I had a lot of trouble trying to understand the NT Revelations. That being said, my grandmothers both waited for the second coming simply because their mothers waited also. Just don't know what to think..but I believe the destruction of the earth will be on our heads in a few generations to come..I just can't believe that Jesus and His Father would want so much "destruction" in what is supposed to be a glorious occasion. Just my IMOJeanne
guerreiro9 Posted September 4, 2014 Posted September 4, 2014 I just can't believe that Jesus and His Father would want so much "destruction" in what is supposed to be a glorious occasion.What makes you think they want it?-guerreiro9
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