Utah's Immigration Influenced By Religious Values

[rockpond]

If this is too political, I ask the mods to delete or lock.  But I thought it was cool when I heard this story on NPR yesterday on my drive home.  The reporter (Kirk Siegler) credits LDS religious values with Utah's "softer approach" to immigration.  You have to go to the last third of the article for that part of the story.

 

http://www.npr.org/2014/07/31/336848634/three-years-on-utahs-immigrant-guest-worker-law-still-stalled

 

Let's not start an immigration legislation debate... these boards are not the place for that discussion.

 

 

[Mystery Meat]

I know it has influenced my views on it significantly, and is part of the reason why I am probably more liberal than conservative on the issue. I think it is important to see people.

[rockpond]

I know it has influenced my views on it significantly, and is part of the reason why I am probably more liberal than conservative on the issue. I think it is important to see people.

 

I agree... I think it is important to "see people" as you state it.  My dad, who is VERY politically conservative, was a stake president in a border state.  In his stake there was a spanish-language branch.  He loved those people and spoke fondly of them.  Many were not legally residing there.  But I believe his interaction with those families had a permanent impact on how he viewed immigration law which was, as Siegler put it, "softer" than one might expect of a staunch conservative.

[BCSpace]

Many were not legally residing there.  But I believe his interaction with those families had a permanent impact on how he viewed immigration law which was, as Siegler put it, "softer" than one might expect of a staunch conservative.

 

 

Since Conservatives were mentioned and it was implied that they are 'hard' in stance, I must respond that Conservatives aren't opposed to immigration nor are they opposed to helping people. 

 

Religiously, Conservative's transactions along those lines have actual virtue and morality.  If someone asks for help and someone freely gives, then there is virtue and charity.  The one giving feels a sense of goodness and well-being.  The one receiving feels thankfulness and a sense of obligation in that once they are doing better, they can return the favor.  if it's done at the point of a gun, there are no such feelings of charity and the one receiving often merely feels entitled.

 

 

 The reporter (Kirk Siegler) credits LDS religious values with Utah's "softer approach" to immigration.  You have to go to the last third of the article for that part of the story.

 

I don't see any LDS religious values at all that are any different than even those who are strongly Conservative on the issue.  The Utah Compact is good evidence for that.

 

In fact LDS values are quite in opposition to eliminating borders and inviting anyone in who wants to come.  Case in point, the Church tells people to establish Zion where they are.  So our moral responsibility is to help people where they are, not to dump illegal immigrants in our communities and force us at the point of a gun to 'share the wealth'.

 

applies here.

 

 

I agree... I think it is important to "see people" as you state it.

 

 

I "see people" (the ones you are referring to) all the time as I live and work among many of them. I love them and help them and have befriended many of them.  My views have remained the same and I see no need to compromise Gospel principles.  The Conservative solutions to the problem are superior because they actually solve the problem in the most loving, Christ-like, and responsible way.

[The Nehor]

The Conservative solutions to the problem are superior because they actually solve the problem in the most loving, Christ-like, and responsible way.

 

Someone drank the

 

 

As an estranged Republican supporter wanting my party back I can't figure out what the party is doing. The vast majority of immigrants are Hispanic. Speaking generally they are religious, morally conservative and have a higher than average tendency to start businesses and join the military. They are almost designed to be Republicans but instead the big-government big-spending skeptics are suddenly pro-big government and pro-spending on their pet issue.

 

I have a harder time seeing how LDS are opposed. The Book of Mormon is pretty clear that Hispanics/Children of Lehi are the promised ones of this land. We are told they will supplant the Gentiles (i.e. most of us) and even destroy us if we do not repent. Shrill voices scream about how we are losing our culture and values due to these alien elements. If they can't survive maybe they just don't deserve to survive.

 

Or we can continue to vilify them and talk about how these people who aren't integrating at a rate we like are sabotaging our great nation and how we need to expel them to solve the problem before they strip us of our values and possibly even betray us. It has been tried before. A charming man with an adorable Charlie Chaplin mustache even came to power on that platform.

[thesometimesaint]

Onward Christian "soldiers".

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-texas-border-militias-20140731-story.html

[Kenngo1969]

http://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2013/03/09/lds-and-immigration/

[Tacenda]

I hope the _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ s, get out of the way and start coming up with a solution soon.  They act like children, these elected officials.  I have a bone to pick since my SIL is an illegal immigrant.  His father, brother and sister all came over, leaving their mom in Mexico, his father went back but isn't with his mom any longer.  My SIL hasn't seen his mom in over 15 years. 

 

In my uneducated very much mind, I think Mexico should get some of their land back, let the immigrants have some of it. 

 

I'm glad the church has a softer approach as in they don't want to break up the family.  

[thesometimesaint]

I hope the _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ s, get out of the way and start coming up with a solution soon.  They act like children, these elected officials.  I have a bone to pick since my SIL is an illegal immigrant.  His father, brother and sister all came over, leaving their mom in Mexico, his father went back but isn't with his mom any longer.  My SIL hasn't seen his mom in over 15 years. 

 

In my uneducated very much mind, I think Mexico should get some of their land back, let the immigrants have some of it. 

 

I'm glad the church has a softer approach as in they don't want to break up the family.  

 

if taken to its logical conclusion. How are we to fit 312 million Americans on Manhattan Island? 

[The Nehor]

In my uneducated very much mind, I think Mexico should get some of their land back, let the immigrants have some of it. 

 

Mexico has plenty of land to support its population. It is the nation itself that is the problem.

[thesometimesaint]

Mexico has plenty of land to support its population. It is the nation itself that is the problem.

 

Yes and no. In physical size, no problem. With the massive influx of US corn not so much.

[The Nehor]

Yes and no. In physical size, no problem. With the massive influx of US corn not so much.

 

I agree they need to up their tariffs on many US goods.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Mexico has plenty of land to support its population. It is the nation itself that is the problem.

I am pretty sure I agree with you here.

[MormonFreeThinker]

"The February 28 Deseret News editorial, "A Model For The Nation" also accurately reflects the position of the Church regarding immigration reform, including measures that will allow those who are now here illegally to work legally, provide for their families and become better contributing members of our community—but without establishing a path to citizenship or granting amnesty."

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/immigration-response

 

"The history of mass expulsion or mistreatment of individuals or families is cause for concern especially where race, culture, or religion are involved. This should give pause to any policy that contemplates targeting any one group, particularly if that group comes mostly from one heritage. As those on all sides of the immigration debate in the United States have noted, this issue is one that must ultimately be resolved by the federal government...The Church supports an approach where undocumented immigrants are allowed to square themselves with the law and continue to work without this necessarily leading to citizenship." http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/immigration-church-issues-new-statement

[Buzzard]

One man wanting a better life for his family is a touching human interest story.  Ten million men wanting better lives for their families through illegal, uncontrolled immigration is a national social problem.

Without passing judgement on whether it is correct or not, the churches stance on illegal immigration is due to one main motivation: Baptisms.  A lot of these new immigrants join the church.  The Utah St. George Mission that was created a few years ago is (I am told) primarily a Spanish speaking mission. Almost every domestic mission in the church has Spanish speaking missionaries. 

I think it is great that these people are being baptized.  I am rather ambivalent about their baptisms taking place here if they did not cross the border legally. 

[The Nehor]

One man wanting a better life for his family is a touching human interest story.  Ten million men wanting better lives for their families through illegal, uncontrolled immigration is a national social problem.

Without passing judgement on whether it is correct or not, the churches stance on illegal immigration is due to one main motivation: Baptisms.  A lot of these new immigrants join the church.  The Utah St. George Mission that was created a few years ago is (I am told) primarily a Spanish speaking mission. Almost every domestic mission in the church has Spanish speaking missionaries. 

I think it is great that these people are being baptized.  I am rather ambivalent about their baptisms taking place here if they did not cross the border legally.

Unless I am misunderstanding you are saying border security is more important than people gaining eternal life?

[ERayR]

I hope the _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ s, get out of the way and start coming up with a solution soon.  They act like children, these elected officials.  I have a bone to pick since my SIL is an illegal immigrant.  His father, brother and sister all came over, leaving their mom in Mexico, his father went back but isn't with his mom any longer.  My SIL hasn't seen his mom in over 15 years. 

 

In my uneducated very much mind, I think Mexico should get some of their land back, let the immigrants have some of it. 

 

I'm glad the church has a softer approach as in they don't want to break up the family.  

 

I have a better solution.  The USofA should annex Mexico then they would all be citizens and we could develop the oil fields and become an oil exporting country.

[The Nehor]

I have a better solution.  The USofA should annex Mexico then they would all be citizens and we could develop the oil fields and become an oil exporting country.

I was hoping that Scotland would defect from the UK and then go bankrupt and beg any nation to take them. We bring them in as a new state on condition that we can name the state. In a fit of reverse colonialism we rename Scotland "New America".

The US does not want Mexico. It would be a new Puerto Rico with a much larger population and much more expensive.

[Buzzard]

Unless I am misunderstanding you are saying border security is more important than people gaining eternal life?

No, I'm saying it's a difficult issue. There are no black and white answers.

[ERayR]

No, I'm saying it's a difficult issue. There are no black and white answers.

 

For a Latter-day Saint it should be simple, if someone accepts the gospel they should be welcomed into the fold.

[Buzzard]

For a Latter-day Saint it should be simple, if someone accepts the gospel they should be welcomed into the fold.

I agree heartily, while being ambivalent as to whether they should be welcomed into the country they arrived in illegally, or sent home to get a visa and wait their turn. 

[thesometimesaint]

I have a better solution.  The USofA should annex Mexico then they would all be citizens and we could develop the oil fields and become an oil exporting country.

 

"From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli"

 

The US of A is an oil exporting nation.

[Danzo]

I agree heartily, while being ambivalent as to whether they should be welcomed into the country they arrived in illegally, or sent home to get a visa and wait their turn. 

 

How about working to change the Immigration law so that people can come here legally?

 

I find that most people who say "wait their turn", or "make sure they arrive legally" have no idea what that means.

[Buzzard]

How about working to change the Immigration law so that people can come here legally?

 

I find that most people who say "wait their turn", or "make sure they arrive legally" have no idea what that means.

I would support loosening the quotas so that more people could immigrate to this country, while at the same time making it impossible to be hired if you don't have a visa.

[ERayR]

I would support loosening the quotas so that more people could immigrate to this country, while at the same time making it impossible to be hired if you don't have a visa.

 

It is already illegal.