170 Years

[BookofMormonLuvr]

170 years ago today Joseph & Hyrum Smith were murdered for their testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. May their memory, and willingness to die, be forever had among those who love the Restored Gospel.

In their memory can we as Saints- LDS, RLDS, CRE, JCRB, Church of Christ Temple Lot, Church of Jesus Christ (Bickerton), Church of Jesus Christ (Cutler), Elijah Messenger churches, Remnant Church, Restoration COJC, etc...- find SOME ways we can tear down walls and work together in our common love of the Messiah, belief in the Book of Mormon, and hope of Zion?

We can do so much better and love demands it.

[longview]

 

170 years ago today Joseph & Hyrum Smith were murdered for their testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. May their memory, and willingness to die, be forever had among those who love the Restored Gospel.

In their memory can we as Saints- LDS, RLDS, CRE, JCRB, Church of Christ Temple Lot, Church of Jesus Christ (Bickerton), Church of Jesus Christ (Cutler), Elijah Messenger churches, Remnant Church, Restoration COJC, etc...- find SOME ways we can tear down walls and work together in our common love of the Messiah, belief in the Book of Mormon, and hope of Zion?

We can do so much better and love demands it.

 

 

We can do so much better as members as well as non-members:

 

Ephesians 5:

 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with long suffering, forbearing one another in love;

 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

 

The "Law of Witnesses" required the sacrifice of Joseph Smith, the head of the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times.  As indicated in the Bible Dictionary:  "Joseph Smith, as have many other prophets, sealed his testimony with his blood that the righteous might be honored and the wicked might be condemned (Rev. 6:9–10; D&C 135:6–7;136:39)."

 

"find SOME ways we can tear down walls and work together" ?  How about we ALL start with Joseph Smith, consider all his words, life work, and the direction he was going?  Should we not agree that there should only be ONE result that the LORD desires?   Love demands it.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

 

 

We can do so much better as members as well as non-members:

 

Ephesians 5:

 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with long suffering, forbearing one another in love;

 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

 

The "Law of Witnesses" required the sacrifice of Joseph Smith, the head of the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times.  As indicated in the Bible Dictionary:  "Joseph Smith, as have many other prophets, sealed his testimony with his blood that the righteous might be honored and the wicked might be condemned (Rev. 6:9–10; D&C 135:6–7;136:39)."

 

"find SOME ways we can tear down walls and work together" ?  How about we ALL start with Joseph Smith, consider all his words, life work, and the direction he was going?  Should we not agree that there should only be ONE result that the LORD desires?   Love demands it.

 

 

I believe that "one result" is Zion- the gathering of the "pure in heart". I believe those pure in heart are found among all churches of the Restoration and even among those outside of the Restoration. Let those with a knowledge of the Restored Gospel led by example in bringing peace and righteousness to the Earth. Without our example, without Zion, the world languishes in darkness.

[rpn]

Did you read in the SLTrib that a non-member historian Mr. Beam has published a book about the martyrdom?  Don't have time to link but it sounds interesting.

[strappinglad]

Thanks BOMLV ,for bringing to my attention an anniversary which, while not celebrated, should be acknowledged as a great sacrifice for the Restoration.

[longview]

I believe that "one result" is Zion- the gathering of the "pure in heart". I believe those pure in heart are found among all churches of the Restoration and even among those outside of the Restoration. Let those with a knowledge of the Restored Gospel led by example in bringing peace and righteousness to the Earth. Without our example, without Zion, the world languishes in darkness.

 

In other words, it is OK to be a "cafeteria choosing Mormon" ?  It is OK with God for men to claim to have the "keys of the Priesthood" randomly allocated among the "factions of Mormondom" ?  Is Zion composed only of dedicated individuals?  Or is it required to have a "body" of the Church tried and tested ready to extend "official" welcome to our Lord and Savior on the Earth at His Second Coming?  In accordance with the prophecy of Malachi that Temple Work be undergoing extensive preparations and fulfillment hoping for His Approval prior to His Second Coming?  Which "faction" has Temple Work ongoing in a glorious and purposeful manner?  There are thousands more questions you can be answering.

[BookofMormonLuvr]

In other words, it is OK to be a "cafeteria choosing Mormon" ?  It is OK with God for men to claim to have the "keys of the Priesthood" randomly allocated among the "factions of Mormondom" ?  Is Zion composed only of dedicated individuals?  Or is it required to have a "body" of the Church tried and tested ready to extend "official" welcome to our Lord and Savior on the Earth at His Second Coming?  In accordance with the prophecy of Malachi that Temple Work be undergoing extensive preparations and fulfillment hoping for His Approval prior to His Second Coming?  Which "faction" has Temple Work ongoing in a glorious and purposeful manner?  There are thousands more questions you can be answering.

longview- 

You are representative of the traditional animosity that keeps us from finding ways to cooperate. I will quote Joseph Smith to answer you...

 

“If I esteem mankind to be in error, shall I bear them down? No. I will lift them up, and in their own way too, if I cannot persuade them my way is better; and I will not seek to compel any man to believe as I do, only by the force of reasoning, for truth will cut its own way. Do you believe in Jesus Christ and the Gospel of salvation which He revealed? So do I. Christians should cease wrangling and contending with each other, and cultivate the principles of union and friendship in their midst; and they will do it before the millennium can be ushered in and Christ takes possession of His kingdom.” (Joseph Smith, July 9, 1843)

 

I refuse to argue, contend, or bear you down.

Shalom.

[The Nehor]

 

170 years ago today Joseph & Hyrum Smith were murdered for their testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. May their memory, and willingness to die, be forever had among those who love the Restored Gospel.

In their memory can we as Saints- LDS, RLDS, CRE, JCRB, Church of Christ Temple Lot, Church of Jesus Christ (Bickerton), Church of Jesus Christ (Cutler), Elijah Messenger churches, Remnant Church, Restoration COJC, etc...- find SOME ways we can tear down walls and work together in our common love of the Messiah, belief in the Book of Mormon, and hope of Zion?

We can do so much better and love demands it.

 

 

Nah. Why would we want to consort with godless heathens and apostate heretics?

[longview]

longview- 

You are representative of the traditional animosity that keeps us from finding ways to cooperate. I will quote Joseph Smith to answer you

I was heartened with your opening post of your thread giving honor to the life, work and ministry of Joseph Smith and accepting the seriousness of his martyrdom hollowed by God. My first response was a proposal that all "factions" work together to seriously consider all of his statements. So it really surprises me to be accused (either directly or indirectly) of having "animosity".

It is my lifelong impression that the Church that I belong to consistently tries for the most part to keep an open dialogue with other churches and show good will.  Witness President Hinckley's willingness to "gift" to the RLDS the supposed patriarchal blessing designating a son of JS to be the next leader of the Church (which later was found to be a forgery by Mark Hofmann).

 

I refuse to argue, contend, or bear you down.

I appreciate you providing this JS quotation. I agree with it. I do not wish to engage in a head-butting contest. I admit to having been "censured" a few times on this board for heavy handed tendencies and politicking.

 

Shalom.

Shalom (peace) to you also. If I may continue with another quotation of JS concerning Zion:

 

“Now many will feel disposed to say, that this New Jerusalem spoken of, is the Jerusalem that was built by the Jews on the eastern continent. But you will see, from Revelation 21:2, there was a New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven, adorned as a bride for her husband; that after this, the Revelator was caught away in the Spirit, to a great and high mountain, and saw the great and holy city descending out of heaven from God. Now there are two cities spoken of here. As everything cannot be had in so narrow a compass as a letter, I shall say with brevity, that there is a New Jerusalem to be established on this continent, and also Jerusalem shall be rebuilt on the eastern continent [see Ether 13:1–12]. ‘Behold, Ether saw the days of Christ, and he spake also concerning the house of Israel, and the Jerusalem from whence Lehi should come; after it should be destroyed, it should be built up again, a holy city unto the Lord, wherefore it could not be a New Jerusalem, for it had been in a time of old.’ [Ether 13:4–5.]”

“The Prophets have said concerning Zion in the last days: how the glory of Lebanon is to come upon her; the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box tree together, to beautify the place of His sanctuary, that He may make the place of His feet glorious [see Isaiah 60:13]. Where for brass, He will bring gold; and for iron, He will bring silver; and for wood, brass; and for stones, iron [see Isaiah 60:17]; and where the feast of fat things will be given to the just [see Isaiah 25:6]; yea, when the splendor of the Lord is brought to our consideration for the good of His people, the calculations of men and the vain glory of the world vanish, and we exclaim, ‘Out of Zion the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.’ [Psalm 50:2.]”

My question to you is this: Would this Zion (adorned as a bride) be established in both the Old and New Jerusalem? Would this be brought about by a loose network of the "pure in heart" or would it require an organized Church to perform the required preparations?  Would there be prophets and the Priesthood involved in the work?  What of Temples?  Can you reference JS statements on these questions?

Edited June 28, 2014 by longview

[JLHPROF]

 

170 years ago today Joseph & Hyrum Smith were murdered for their testimony of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. May their memory, and willingness to die, be forever had among those who love the Restored Gospel.

In their memory can we as Saints- LDS, RLDS, CRE, JCRB, Church of Christ Temple Lot, Church of Jesus Christ (Bickerton), Church of Jesus Christ (Cutler), Elijah Messenger churches, Remnant Church, Restoration COJC, etc...- find SOME ways we can tear down walls and work together in our common love of the Messiah, belief in the Book of Mormon, and hope of Zion?

We can do so much better and love demands it.

 

 

I notice you left out the FLDS, Centennial Park, AUB, and other fundamentalists.    They too believe in the Messiah, the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith and Zion.  If it weren't for the pesky polygamy thing....

[BookofMormonLuvr]

I notice you left out the FLDS, Centennial Park, AUB, and other fundamentalists.    They too believe in the Messiah, the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith and Zion.  If it weren't for the pesky polygamy thing....

 

There is a category of "etc..." that they, and others, could be included in. And I know plenty of Fundamentalist Mormons I would be more then happy to socialize with and work along-side.

Edited June 29, 2014 by BookofMormonLuvr

[johnNewingtonn]

__To me, reading such discussions is actually quite a beautiful thing. The manner of replies are so well considered, carefully crafted so as to enlighten rather than escalate into conflict, which then sheds no light. 

__I think it can be discerned that this reflects the result of the solid foundation taught the Mormons. I also think it speaks highly of the background behind the process.

 

I've often wondered how it is that such excellent people become leaders in the Mormon Church.

It is indeed surprisingly difficult to promote excellence in any organization.

Even our great political system is no guarantor that the best, or even outstanding, people will be elected. 

 

It's also true in business. Hiring talent, keeping a team, promoting the right people, are all very difficult.  Often the right people are not chosen or promoted. As a person who has been responsible for selecting who to hire, I recognize how hard it is. As a person who rates performance of others, and chooses people to lead projects, I often live with this difficulty. 

 

I believe that the manner in which Mormons are taught to engage, to question, to be exacting and to make considered responses are factors in their success at promoting the gifted.. To rise in an organization where members are so intellectually demanding of one another, requires very special people. Were there less active engagement on the issues, a less rigorous promotion process would likely result and lower caliber people might rise to the top.

 

Such dialogue is a very positive part of the Mormon people, and may contribute to the high level of the Leadership.

[Damien the Leper]

About a decade ago, I was in Nauvoo celebrating Joseph Smith. It was a co-sponsored event between Community of Christ and the LDS church. It was a little overwhelming with a ridiculous amount of apostles running around. A friend did get a picture of Elder Packer with Apostle Linda Booth, I believe.