Elder Dallin H. Oaks Said Global Warming Is Serious

[MorningStar]

This is sewious!

[halconero]

Man-influenced climate change deniers are on the same level as those against vaccinations.

I agree with Elder Oaks.

[Bikeemikey]

If humanity did everything that environmental activists require to solve the AGW problem it would still take years to show any change in the global temp. One of the proposed solutions is to eradicate the population growth which stands at about 80 million more warm bodies contributing to the situation every year. Left to itself, nature will solve the problem in the same way it solves it in the local deer herds here. Too many deer will result in a winter in which all the grazing food is eaten and the majority of the deer die of starvation. According to some , we have already hit the iceberg and are going down. A few will get on the life boats but most will die particularly the 3rd class passengers. Others think we have sighted the iceberg and there is still time to turn the ship and avoid disaster. They forget that it takes a long time to turn a massive ship like the earth and that even if it is turned it might just turn into the berg it is trying to miss. My faith in the response of government is such that I see it shouting orders and throwing all the life jackets overboard to make the ship lighter.

Human technology means we are not subject to the same natural pressures as deer. We are now no longer part of natural evolution. We are now part if a process of self directed evolution.

[mormonnewb]

What is the "rising tide of evil" that has Elder Oaks even more worried?

[strappinglad]

Human technology means we are not subject to the same natural pressures as deer. We are now no longer part of natural evolution. We are now part if a process of self directed evolution.

Right, and how is that going for us as a species? Africa is a poster child for our success. Our technology is now capable of stopping tsunamis, rolling back desertification, taming the whirlwinds, and dousing the volcanos. Now if we could just work out how to conquer the home grown tyrants who would destroy their own people and threaten the rest. If we could just evolve enough to overcome the natural man.

[Bikeemikey]

Right, and how is that going for us as a species? Africa is a poster child for our success. Our technology is now capable of stopping tsunamis, rolling back desertification, taming the whirlwinds, and dousing the volcanos. Now if we could just work out how to conquer the home grown tyrants who would destroy their own people and threaten the rest. If we could just evolve enough to overcome the natural man.

In terms of our ability to survive in large populations in inhospitable climates all around the world, it's going very well.

However the same technology that provides comfort today appears to be doing it at the cost of climate stability in the future.

Point is that hard winters kill deer, they only cost humans more money. There is no parallel between climaye based natural selection culling deer populations and culling human populations.

[Bikeemikey]

What is the "rising tide of evil" that has Elder Oaks even more worried?

The obvious would be increasing wealth disparity and unethical corporate actions to make more money...

Buts that's just my take on it

[Deborah]

 

Elder Oaks then said, "But as serious as all this is, I worry more about the rising tide of evil"

 

Talk about straining at a gnat.... What is your point in repeating this over and over when it seems the message was that our spiritual decline is more serious than any of the disasters afflicting the world. If we had our spiritual houses in order these other things would not be of concern.

[The Nehor]

Talk about straining at a gnat.... What is your point in repeating this over and over when it seems the message was that our spiritual decline is more serious than any of the disasters afflicting the world. If we had our spiritual houses in order these other things would not be of concern.

I think it is more along the lines of if we had our spiritual houses in order we would be inspired and led in ways to mitigate or avoid the disasters. As it is we are left to endure them in the hopes they will stir some up to repentance.

[strappinglad]

In terms of our ability to survive in large populations in inhospitable climates all around the world, it's going very well.

However the same technology that provides comfort today appears to be doing it at the cost of climate stability in the future.

Point is that hard winters kill deer, they only cost humans more money. There is no parallel between climaye based natural selection culling deer populations and culling human populations.

I'm happy to tell this to the millions who have starved and are currently starving. Those were/are just Asians and Africans though. It won't really affect US so no worries. I also must remember to notify my AGW friends that the doomsday scenario they present as wiping out most coastal cities will have no effect on populations. It will all be peace and brotherhood as 100 million + people move inland.

[ERayR]

"The earth has been hotter than now in the past"

True, because CO2 levels were higher. More CO2 = Hotter temperature 

 

"We've been pumping out greenhouse gases"

Power Plants emit a lot more CO2, CO2 levels have increased again since the industrial revolution.

 

"There is just as much or more money and power motive behind the global warming agenda"

Ad hominem, that is not science. AIDS deniers make a similar claim. 

 

Elder Oaks mentioned Global Warming, wars, rumors of wars, droughts, diseases. 

Wars do happen

rumors of wars do happen (Iran, Syria, Korea) 

droughts do happen 

pandemic diseases do happen 

Recessions do happen 

Everything happens except Global warming? 

 

Elder Oaks then said, "Seacoast cities are worrying about the rising level of the ocean"

Global Warming predicts rising sea levels 

 

Elder Oaks then said, "But as serious as all this is, I worry more about the rising tide of evil"

He worries more about the evil in the world, but he still worries about all of that 

 

See Skeptical Science for the evidence 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php

 

 

Not to worry Obama has found the cause and the cure.

 

http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/28/white-house-looks-to-regulate-cow-flatulence-as-part-of-climate-agenda/

 

In the 1800's the great plains surely must have been a very warm place with all those millions of buffalo roaming about.  Herds that stretched from horizon to horizon.  Its a good thing the buffalo hunters killed them all off or by now the climate would surely have been unbearable.

Edited April 19, 2014 by ERayR

[thesometimesaint]

There is just as much or more money and power motive behind the global warming agenda as there is with the movement against it. It's not as clear cut as they would want you to think.

 

Incorrect. SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_conspiracy_theory

[Bikeemikey]

I'm happy to tell this to the millions who have starved and are currently starving. Those were/are just Asians and Africans though. It won't really affect US so no worries. I also must remember to notify my AGW friends that the doomsday scenario they present as wiping out most coastal cities will have no effect on populations. It will all be peace and brotherhood as 100 million + people move inland.

Millions starve and will continue to... It is a human tragedy on a massive scale. The fact remains that in 1800 the world had a population of less than 1 billion with a life expectancy much below the global average now. The current population is over 7 billion and more and more of the worlds population in both raw numbers and percentages are living healthier and longer lives.

The wiping out of costal cities will be a huge economic and social challenge, it will however, via technological assistance be able to be either partially mitigated or those impacted will be able to be relocated.

The shame is that climate change deniers are stalling the full scale commitment to and funding of alternative technologies that could help us have immediate positive impact.

[thesometimesaint]

If humanity did everything that environmental activists require to solve the AGW problem it would still take years to show any change in the global temp. One of the proposed solutions is to eradicate the population growth which stands at about 80 million more warm bodies contributing to the situation every year. Left to itself, nature will solve the problem in the same way it solves it in the local deer herds here. Too many deer will result in a winter in which all the grazing food is eaten and the majority of the deer die of starvation. According to some , we have already hit the iceberg and are going down. A few will get on the life boats but most will die particularly the 3rd class passengers. Others think we have sighted the iceberg and there is still time to turn the ship and avoid disaster. They forget that it takes a long time to turn a massive ship like the earth and that even if it is turned it might just turn into the berg it is trying to miss. My faith in the response of government is such that I see it shouting orders and throwing all the life jackets overboard to make the ship lighter.

 

SEE https://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-too-hard.htm

[thesometimesaint]

Not to worry Obama has found the cause and the cure.

 

http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/28/white-house-looks-to-regulate-cow-flatulence-as-part-of-climate-agenda/

 

In the 1800's the great plains surely must have been a very warm place with all those millions of buffalo roaming about.  Herds that stretched from horizon to horizon.  Its a good thing the buffalo hunters killed them all off or by now the climate would surely have been unbearable.

 

SEE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXgDrr6qiUk#t=146

[MormonFreeThinker]

Let's remember that this topic is about the statement made by Elder Oaks and Science, not politics. 

For example, cigarettes cause cancer (science), but minors cannot legally buy cigarettes (politics). 

Or Embryology (science), but pro-life and pro-choice (politics).

 

Climate Changer denier style 

 

Edited April 19, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[pogi]

First, I think it would be correct to infer from his comments that Elder Oaks views climate change as a threat.  He did not mention however if he believed that it is caused or catalyzed by man made pollutants.  He may believe that, but we just don't have enough information.  I would be willing to bet that there is not consensus among the brethren on the issue.  When it comes to climate change, I would look to science not religion.  Elder Oaks is not telling us to build an ark or do all that we can to reverse climate change.  He is saying, while concerning, there are far greater concerns with the world right now.  We give far more attention to physical threats than we do spiritual ones.  His message was clear (for me) that this should be reversed.  So, why are we talking about climate change (even if it is real) and not the spiritual threats?  We may be hearing his words, but are we listening?

[Bikeemikey]

First, I think it would be correct to infer from his comments that Elder Oaks views climate change as a threat. He did not mention however if he believed that it is caused or catalyzed by man made pollutants. He may believe that, but we just don't have enough information. I would be willing to bet that there is not consensus among the brethren on the issue. When it comes to climate change, I would look to science not religion. Elder Oaks is not telling us to build an ark or do all that we can to reverse climate change. He is saying, while concerning, there are far greater concerns with the world right now. We give far more attention to physical threats than we do spiritual ones. His message was clear (for me) that this should be reversed. So, why are we talking about climate change (even if it is real) and not the spiritual threats? We may be hearing his words, but are we listening?

I wouldn't mind an accompanying list of said evils, he sure seems to know what they are, perhaps he could share them in a list format for folks like me.

[pogi]

I wouldn't mind an accompanying list of said evils, he sure seems to know what they are, perhaps he could share them in a list format for folks like me.

 

He used "evil" in the singular rather than plural, so it is all inclusive.  He is emphasizing the importance of spiritual preparedness over physical preparedness.  I think he is asking us to assess the spiritual threats that we each face as individuals and families.  That is a personal and individual matter, so all of our lists of spiritual threats may be a little different.  He could have been speaking of societal threats as well, in which case we need to give ear to the brethren and sisters in conference. 

[strappinglad]

SEE https://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-too-hard.htm

Read it thanks. Also read the comments and the advanced descriptions of what would be required to maintain the CO2 levels at 500ppm. My skepticism about humanity's ability and desire to accomplish the required goals has been quadrupled. Witness the failure of recent attempts to expand solar power usage even with massive govt. intervention. I live where there are many wind farms. The problem with wind is that it does not always blow when there is the demand for power. That means there will be stationary windmills during good winds or there must be found economical ways to store the excess energy for later use. Some are proposing using grid power to pump water uphill to hydro dams to be used later when peak demand kicks in.

As an aside , I have built and lived in passive solar and super-insulated homes since 1980. My current home was constructed for future PV power. So far the $20,000 initial hit to put up panels is not cost effective. Storage is also a major problem.

[ERayR]

First, I think it would be correct to infer from his comments that Elder Oaks views climate change as a threat.  He did not mention however if he believed that it is caused or catalyzed by man made pollutants.  He may believe that, but we just don't have enough information.  I would be willing to bet that there is not consensus among the brethren on the issue.  When it comes to climate change, I would look to science not religion.  Elder Oaks is not telling us to build an ark or do all that we can to reverse climate change.  He is saying, while concerning, there are far greater concerns with the world right now.  We give far more attention to physical threats than we do spiritual ones.  His message was clear (for me) that this should be reversed.  So, why are we talking about climate change (even if it is real) and not the spiritual threats?  We may be hearing his words, but are we listening?

 

Exactly

Edited April 19, 2014 by ERayR

[ERayR]

I wouldn't mind an accompanying list of said evils, he sure seems to know what they are, perhaps he could share them in a list format for folks like me.

 

Why you would only argue with what was on the list.

[MormonFreeThinker]

How about Elder L. Tom Perry? 

He said, "Traveling to the four corners of the world we encounter all too often a spirit of gloom among the people. Their concerns range from wars, rumors of wars, famine, and inflation to drug addiction, climate changes, pollution, bigness of government, etc. I can understand why those who are without faith in our Lord and Savior would become prophets of gloom. Times can be difficult. However, a look at the causes of the difficulties proves that they are man-made and that solutions are within man’s ability to accomplish."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/print/1981/10/when-ye-are-prepared-ye-shall-not-fear?lang=eng

[Bikeemikey]

Why you would only argue with what was on the list.

Given you seem to consider yourself able of predicting the future I guess I'll just defer to what you think I'll do at any future point.

[Bikeemikey]

How about Elder L. Tom Perry?

He said, "Traveling to the four corners of the world we encounter all too often a spirit of gloom among the people. Their concerns range from wars, rumors of wars, famine, and inflation to drug addiction, climate changes, pollution, bigness of government, etc. I can understand why those who are without faith in our Lord and Savior would become prophets of gloom. Times can be difficult. However, a look at the causes of the difficulties proves that they are man-made and that solutions are within man’s ability to accomplish."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/print/1981/10/when-ye-are-prepared-ye-shall-not-fear?lang=eng

Well he obviously believes in man made climate change