mormonnewb Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 There's just no tactful way to publicly "correct" the situation. At most, I would approach the speaker after the talk and tell him I was interested in learning more about the story and ask for more details (i.e. "CFR"). Then I would try to research it and let the speaker know what I found.But if it wasn't possible to research it properly (or the results were inconclusive), I would just call the speaker a few days later and tell him I had confirmed it didn't happen.There may not be a tactful way to publicly correct this speaker, but there is an EFFECTIVE way. I had this happen to me at a Rotary Club talk. I told some story I read about in a chain e-mail (but didn't bother to verify). During the Q&A, a man stood up and exposed my sloppiness and then asked his question, "Given that you told us such an obviously untrue story, is there any reason we should believe ANYTHING written in the book that you'll be hawking at the back of the room?"Guess who no longer tells false stories in public (until after I've looked it up on Snopes)?
bjw Posted April 17, 2014 Author Posted April 17, 2014 What a horrible story. How offensive to people who do leave their missions for medical reasons. What is the name and address of the man? I REALLY want to talk at him personally.This is a very good question. I know he was visiting from outside my stake (I'm in Manteca, California stake), and I believe he was a former mission president or something similar. I am planning on asking my ward mission leader about it since he was instrumental in planning the event. Even if I can't get a CFR on the story I at least want to express my disagreement with its use at the event. I will let you know if I can learn more about it.
Kenngo1969 Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 While I agree with those who have pointed out that losing a limb and adjusting to using a prosthetic involves a steep learning curve (and I doubt the account as presented, in any event), there is another option: someone could simply forego a prosthetic (at least while still in the field) and get some ambulatory devices (crutches).
Kenngo1969 Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 This is a very good question. I know he was visiting from outside my stake (I'm in Manteca, California stake), and I believe he was a former mission president or something similar. I am planning on asking my ward mission leader about it since he was instrumental in planning the event. Even if I can't get a CFR on the story I at least want to express my disagreement with its use at the event. I will let you know if I can learn more about it. You didn't put an extraneous apostrophe in the word its!!! (Sorry; I simply think that the proper use of punctuation is something to be celebrated. Back to your regularly-scheduled programming. ) 1
Calm Posted April 17, 2014 Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) While I agree with those who have pointed out that losing a limb and adjusting to using a prosthetic involves a steep learning curve (and I doubt the account as presented, in any event), there is another option: someone could simply forego a prosthetic (at least while still in the field) and get some ambulatory devices (crutches).Even that takes time to adjust to in order to build up strength etc. plus healing from the operation which would require the missionary's companion be taken off duty as well btw if I understand the rules. Plus that wasn't part of the story.And as was mentioned, would a missionary be allowed to stay out for a condition that would have prevented him from being called in the first place?Just think of all the liability issues allowing him to stay would open up for the Church. Edited April 17, 2014 by calmoriah
Garden Girl Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 You didn't put an extraneous apostrophe in the word its!!! (Sorry; I simply think that the proper use of punctuation is something to be celebrated. Back to your regularly-scheduled programming. ) The words it's and its are tricky... 1) It's is a contraction of the words it is... 2) Its is showing possession...So, actually, bjw's punctuation is correct when talking about the story and its use... otherwise it would be like saying "I disagree with it is use"... This is an error I notice often... another one is the words "to" and "too"... many people say "to much time" vs "too much time." GG
omni Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 The words it's and its are tricky... 1) It's is a contraction of the words it is... 2) Its is showing possession...So, actually, bjw's punctuation is correct when talking about the story and its use... otherwise it would be like saying "I disagree with it is use"... This is an error I notice often... another one is the words "to" and "too"... many people say "to much time" vs "too much time." GG I think he was congratulating him for not adding the apostrophe. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 I think he was congratulating him for not adding the apostrophe. Yes!!! 1
Kenngo1969 Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) Even that takes time to adjust to in order to build up strength etc. plus healing from the operation which would require the missionary's companion be taken off duty as well btw if I understand the rules. Plus that wasn't part of the story.And as was mentioned, would a missionary be allowed to stay out for a condition that would have prevented him from being called in the first place?Just think of all the liability issues allowing him to stay would open up for the Church.You're probably right. I was simply cogitating and prognosticating on a possible set of circumstances under which someone who underwent an amputation might (however unlikely the prospect) be allowed to stay. P.S.: When it came to adapting to the use of ambulatory devices, my learning curve wasn't that steep: I've always been built pretty much like an ox! Edited April 18, 2014 by Kenngo1969
Calm Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 The words it's and its are tricky... 1) It's is a contraction of the words it is... 2) Its is showing possession...So, actually, bjw's punctuation is correct when talking about the story and its use... otherwise it would be like saying "I disagree with it is use"... This is an error I notice often... another one is the words "to" and "too"... many people say "to much time" vs "too much time." GG What ticks me off is when I do it correctly and autocorrect screws it up. And one know how to access the autocorrect word list for editing?
toon Posted April 18, 2014 Posted April 18, 2014 But if it wasn't possible to research it properly (or the results were inconclusive), I would just call the speaker a few days later and tell him I had confirmed it didn't happen. A faith promoting lie?
deli_llama Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 I attended a missionary fireside last week and there was a story that an old man gave that I wonder if anyone else has heard it or if it might be missionary folklore. He said that a young man was only about half way through his mission when the doctor told him he had an infection in his leg and needed a surgery where a cadaver bone would be put in his leg to replace the bone, and he would leave his mission to go home and recover. He asked the doctor if there were other options. The doctor said the only other option was to lose the leg and get it replaced by a wooden stump. He chose the amputation just so he could finish his mission. The old man reiterated that the gospel is worth any sacrificeI was very shocked at the story, not necessarily because the kid would make such a sacrifice, but that the story was told at an event that we were expected to bring potential converts to. I was afraid it might turn off some because they would think we demand too much from our members, even though I love our church I don't know if I would have the guts to make such a sacrifice. Anyone have an opinion on whether this type of story is appropriate, and has anyone heard it?If that is the story you heard it is not true. I heard, and I can only guess at the extra details that you didn't share, the exact same story while I was on my mission on the east coast 20 years ago. I called BS on it then as well. Unless of course, it was a 20 year process and he finally has progressed with the point he can pedal a bike with his prosthesis. Shrug.
bjw Posted April 21, 2014 Author Posted April 21, 2014 I still agree with the general consensus of everyone on the board so far. I went ahead and asked around at church today about the identity of the man who gave the talk at the fireside. The ward mission leader wasn't there, so I decided to ask a missionary instead, and the way his face beamed I know he wasn't lying. The missionary seemed to believe the story when I briefly rehashed it, so that further confirmed to me he was truthful as to the speaker's identity. Whiile the man is not quite General Authority high in the church, he does have a fairly high position in California. Is it appropriate for me to say his name or position on this board? Also, who in the church should I express my concern about this? I am not only concerned about the truthfulness of the story, but that it was told in front of potential converts. The reason I want to err on the side of caution on the board is I value my relationship with Fair and Mdb, as it is part of the reason I still have a strong testimony today. So please let me know what appropriate. Thanks.
Calm Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 You could try writing him a letter from the viewpoint of how it can be troubling for a missionary or wanna be missionary who was not given a choice or who received a spiritual witness to go home for medical reasons as it may cause others to look on them as less worthy.Maybe reference a GA talk about how we should not be judging those who can't go on missions or who come home early honourably and point out that stories like these are contradictory because it does create a judging environment.If you are brave, you can also point out that the extreme nature of the story will cause some people to doubt it, especially potential converts and that therefore instead of being inspiring it may become an obstacle. Encourage him to find a story that can be confirmed by anyone curious to look for it. Maybe find one for him in fact.Make sure you thank him for caring enough to want to help others with their faith and endurance, you could say that it is the same concern that led you to write him. 1
bjw Posted April 21, 2014 Author Posted April 21, 2014 You could try writing him a letter from the viewpoint of how it can be troubling for a missionary or wanna be missionary who was not given a choice or who received a spiritual witness to go home for medical reasons as it may cause others to look on them as less worthy.Maybe reference a GA talk about how we should not be judging those who can't go on missions or who come home early honourably and point out that stories like these are contradictory because it does create a judging environment.If you are brave, you can also point out that the extreme nature of the story will cause some people to doubt it, especially potential converts and that therefore instead of being inspiring it may become an obstacle. Encourage him to find a story that can be confirmed by anyone curious to look for it. Maybe find one for him in fact.Make sure you thank him for caring enough to want to help others with their faith and endurance, you could say that it is the same concern that led you to write him.These are good ideas, thanks. I think also asking if he has a name behind the incident woild be appropriate as well, along with the friendly approach. Anyone care to add?
Stargazer Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 What a horrible story. How offensive to people who do leave their missions for medical reasons. What is the name and address of the man? I REALLY want to talk at him personally. Yikes, yes. Me too. I think a small committee of us should be enough to convince this guy that he should NEVER tell this tall tale again.
Stargazer Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 There may not be a tactful way to publicly correct this speaker, but there is an EFFECTIVE way. I had this happen to me at a Rotary Club talk. I told some story I read about in a chain e-mail (but didn't bother to verify). During the Q&A, a man stood up and exposed my sloppiness and then asked his question, "Given that you told us such an obviously untrue story, is there any reason we should believe ANYTHING written in the book that you'll be hawking at the back of the room?" Guess who no longer tells false stories in public (until after I've looked it up on Snopes)? What book were you hawking, by the way?
Duncan Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 These are good ideas, thanks. I think also asking if he has a name behind the incident woild be appropriate as well, along with the friendly approach. Anyone care to add? anyone in any calling can pass off false information or untrue stories
bjw Posted April 21, 2014 Author Posted April 21, 2014 anyone in any calling can pass off false information or untrue storiesI'm wondering if this isn't like a game of telephone where the story got passed through many people over the years with more and more info embellished over time. It would be good to get the story stopped somehow before it goes further. An earlier poster in this thread heard a variation of it 20 years ago.
bjw Posted April 28, 2014 Author Posted April 28, 2014 I had a conversation about this today with my ward mission leader and he assured me that this missionary is currently on his mission in the Sacramento Elk Grove area, and that he has met the missionary in question. So, it looks like there is truth to this story afterall. I still don't think it was appropriate for a missionary fireside talk, maybe for a fast and testimony meeting, but not for something people not familiar with the church should be invited to.
Bikeemikey Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 I had a conversation about this today with my ward mission leader and he assured me that this missionary is currently on his mission in the Sacramento Elk Grove area, and that he has met the missionary in question. So, it looks like there is truth to this story afterall. I still don't think it was appropriate for a missionary fireside talk, maybe for a fast and testimony meeting, but not for something people not familiar with the church should be invited to.So after follow up it appears the story is true?I think my brain just exploded...Not that I doubt you, I am still however highly skeptical.
Calm Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 never heard it before, sounds like a Pirated story though Duncan, you got 12 points so far for this post...insane.
Calm Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 So after follow up it appears the story is true?I think my brain just exploded...Not that I doubt you, I am still however highly skeptical.Hopefully someone on the board is in the area and can track it down. bjw, can you get the name of the young man so that if someone can do the (I am going to hate myself in the morning...this is for Duncan) leg work, you can give him or her the name privately if you haven't got it already?
bjw Posted April 28, 2014 Author Posted April 28, 2014 Hopefully someone on the board is in the area and can track it down. bjw, can you get the name of the young man so that if someone can do the (I am going to hate myself in the morning...this is for Duncan) leg work, you can give him or her the name privately if you haven't got it already?Actually, I know the name of his mission president, and that he's in the Sacramento mission in the Elk Grove area. So, that should be a start. Is it okay to use his name on the board? Also, is it okay to disclose who gave the talk?
Calm Posted April 28, 2014 Posted April 28, 2014 I don't know about the mission pres, that is likely public record, the guy who gave the talk you should check with the mods first before posting it.I am seeing if anyone at FairMormon has contacts in the area so you can PM me the info if you want or wait until I know someone can look it up for us.
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