Can We Minimize Prophets?

[thatjimguy]

Once you are dismissive of former Prophets, it is that much easier to be dismissive of current ones. And to a point I understand the dilemma. If they make mistakes, how can we trust that what they are saying is right? People say take it to the Lord for confirmation, but what happens when two people get two different answers (or rather think they do)?  

 

 

As much as I am happy for the new official statement on the ban and such, I now am thinking about this as well. Mistakes can be made, sure. But there is something that worries me (as it had in the past before I joined the church) about a mass of people who follow a leader without too much question, or go with it even if they do have reservations. I don't know how I feel about this now.

[Scott Lloyd]

There's definitely a difference between you and I.  A member like you and a member like me.  A good member (you) and a bad member (me).  I guess.

 

I don't think I missed the point.  That is to say I realize the errors of the past might have well been made because there was no Correlation.  One thing to add to this confusion, thanks to your input, is is Correlation keeping us from hearing and knowing of truths and revelation because such truths and revelation doesn't quite fit within the boundaries of Correlation rules?  uh oh.  That would be terrible.

 

We discussed this on another thread. It's Correlation that works for and serves the Brethren, not vice versa.

 

The notion of Correlation being some sort of shadowy government that overrules even the General Authorities is pure myth. I know this from observation, as I interact with Correlation weekly, and my work is routinely scrutinized by Correlation.

[jwhitlock]

From my perspective, prophets are intended to be a significant resource for counsel and guidance in our lives. The part of their calling that involves guiding the church, which includes providing unity of doctrine, directing the ordinances of salvation, directing the operation of the church in general, etc., doesn't seem (to me at least) to be that controversial. It's when people start to explore their personal perspectives about prophetic counsel and how it applies to them that the challenges start.

 

I find that if I relate to the counsel of the prophets properly, which is to give heed to their words, which means to read them, ponder them, and determine through the Spirit how they are supposed to apply in our own lives (if at all), and to above all avoid any semblance of blind obedience, we will find that there is significant guidance that we can glean from what they say. It becomes a blessing, properly applied, when we view them as a significant resource that can help us, rather than rolling our eyes and thinking "there they go again, disagreeing with my worldview which proves how out of touch they actually are".

 

I've found that i simply don't have the capacity to obey everything that's good that I hear as counsel, so I need to carefully pick and choose what I'm going to work on and use to improve my life or give me guidance. In reality, the vast majority of what I hear (using General Conference as the main point of counsel) is valuable. There is relatively little that is said that troubles me. It is more beneficial for me personally to look for the guidance that can enrich me, rather than dwelling on things that may simply be wrong, or may have been wrongly perceived by me.

 

It's when we get caught up in finding fault with what the prophets say and use it as justification to generally ignore them that we start to have problems. The other extreme is also true; when we give knee-jerk, unquestioning validation to everything that is said, we become ineffective (and frustrated) in truly effectively using the prophetic resource that God has provided us.

 

Each of us have to determine the best balance in our lives. When we stand before God, He is not going to want to know how totally obedient we were to every word of counsel spoken. He's going to want to know if we gave respectful, honest effort in trying to understand what we've been counseled to do, and then how we used the Spirit to guide is in implementing what was most important at the time in our lives.

 

And perhaps that second aspect of judgment is the most difficult for us. Maybe it's easier for people to be on either extreme, in order to justify their own actions. It's when we really start to think on our own and carefully embrace prophetic counsel as guided by the Spirit that we become more responsible for working out our own salvation, so to speak - and that, while perhaps harder to do, is in the end most rewarding.

[stemelbow]

We discussed this on another thread. It's Correlation that works for and serves the Brethren, not vice versa.

 

The notion of Correlation being some sort of shadowy government that overrules even the General Authorities is pure myth. I know this from observation, as I interact with Correlation weekly, and my work is routinely scrutinized by Correlation.

 

I'm not trying to suggest Correlation overrules the GAs.  Point being perhaps with this correlation we are getting less than we might otherwise.  While we may have other negatives without Correlation, one must wonder if we have negatives with it, no? 

 

I think it's a fair concern.  You may not.  But oh well.  Nice hearing from ya anywho.

[Ahab]

It seems that as some acknowledge that prophets make mistakes, they seem to also conclude that prophets aren't as important as they once thought, even if they decide to stay in the Church. But under LDS theology, can we be so dismissive of the Prophets? Don't they play an essential role in the Latter-day Church, mistakes and all? Or are they just well intentioned men who we can ignore or quietly disregard when we disagree with them? If so then what is their role? It seems to me that the new trend among some members of the Church, perhaps especially those who have come out of a faith crisis is to diminish their role. Can we do that and still be...Latter-day Saints? I have my own answers for me but I am curious to see how everyone else feels.

 

Thoughts?

If there were no prophets of God on the Earth there would be no person who received revelation from God and shared it with others.  That's what prophets are, and what prophets do.  They receive revelation from God and then share it with others.  And we all can be prophets of God.  Some just receive more from God than some others.

[mfbukowski]

I keep clicking on their top right corner but they won't minimize.

 

Oh well, I am not very good with computers anyway.

[cinepro]

It seems that as some acknowledge that prophets make mistakes, they seem to also conclude that prophets aren't as important as they once thought, even if they decide to stay in the Church. But under LDS theology, can we be so dismissive of the Prophets? Don't they play an essential role in the Latter-day Church, mistakes and all? Or are they just well intentioned men who we can ignore or quietly disregard when we disagree with them? If so then what is their role? It seems to me that the new trend among some members of the Church, perhaps especially those who have come out of a faith crisis is to diminish their role. Can we do that and still be...Latter-day Saints? I have my own answers for me but I am curious to see how everyone else feels.

 

Thoughts?

 

1. Yes.  The greater danger is to be too adorative.

 

2. Yes, but their essential role doesn't mean we shouldn't be discerning.

 

3. They are well-intentioned, they are all men, and we can ignore or disregard their teachings if we disagree with them.  All LDS do it to one degree or another (we have to because prophets have contradicted one another at times); anyone who thinks they don't just hasn't read enough.  

 

4. Their role is to lead the Church, with as much inspiration and revelation as they can get, but otherwise using their own best judgement.

 

5. Yes, we can do it and still be Latter-day Saints.  As far as I know, no one has ever been ex'd for it.

[thatjimguy]

So what I'd like to know is what people will start telling their kids when it comes to following the prophet? All the way and "the lord would not lead us astray"?, after confirming it with the Holy Spirit?, listen to him but use your own God given mind?, not at all? A mixture?

[Storm Rider]

Some things have to change among the Brethren. They need to tell us when they are speaking as prophets/apostles and when they are speaking as men. They also need to become much more circumspect in what they say.

 

If I was to teach my grandchildren today, I certainly would focus on the Holy Spirit being the sole source of all truth. If there is no conviction by the Spirit we need to beware of what is being said; not because it is false, but because we don't know.  We need to be serious in our search for testimony.

 

I would also put out a new Primary song book with a few songs missing.